These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CSM - Do you think? (... continued)

First post First post
Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#181 - 2011-09-20 11:55:01 UTC
Delta Jax wrote:
Haters, Can we get some luv in lowsec..


What love do you want?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#182 - 2011-09-20 23:59:35 UTC
Original post has been updated.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jita Alt666
#183 - 2011-09-21 00:30:53 UTC
Your paranoia has shifted from being amusing to being pants on head ********.

Eve is the most complex multi-player computer games created to date. The development of the Flying in Space aspects of the game need to be tested and need to be tested by developers who understand the implications of game mechanic alterations to game play. The best people to do this are players who have demonstrated over a long period of time their ability to play different aspects of the game at a high level.

These players have certain things in common:
1. They play regularly on the test server
2. They provide regular and direct feedback to CCP (not on the forums in the general discussion threads) about their playing experience
3. They do not challenge the corporate structure of CCP or make large accusations against CCP without large amounts of prior investigation.

Currently there are CCP employees who have played for numerous Alliances, rumours I have heard would suggest that: BOB (now Raiden), Goons, Evoke, DRF, Eve University, Cascade imminent, CVA, Atlas have all had players who have become employees of CCP.

In regards to your accusations of Goons attempting to rule the CSM for their own purposes: CSM 4 and CSM 5 largely ignored the development of 0.0 space. While you can claim that during this period Dominion was released that was a 0.0 centred expansion, it was sorely broken and has not added to that aspect of the game. Many 0.0 Alliances voiced their concerns that 0.0 was being neglected, block voting selected candidates into place to ensure that CSM 6 would not ignore 0.0. This was an initiative that goons took part in, an initiative that had and still has widespread support across the 0.0 spectrum.

Regarding your wormhole whine: In 2010 CCP nerfed the sites in over 60% of 0.0 space (the sanctum and haven nerf). Their logic was simply - lower quality space deserves lower quality resources and higher quality space deserves higher quality resources. CSM6 are simply saying lower quality wormhole space deserve lower quality resources than higher quality wormhole space.


Jenshae Chiroptera
#184 - 2011-09-21 01:28:31 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:

3. They do not challenge the corporate structure of CCP or make large accusations against CCP without large amounts of prior investigation.

I have done no such thing.
Jita Alt666 wrote:

In regards to your accusations of Goons attempting to rule the CSM for their own purposes: CSM 4 and CSM 5 largely ignored the development of 0.0 space.

Then you should understand where I am coming from in lack of representation. I am pointing out not only the conflict of interest but the null sec majority.
Jita Alt666 wrote:

Regarding your wormhole whine:

Mining already sucks. Higher classes get more ore and can sustain larger corps.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#185 - 2011-09-21 01:35:26 UTC
Conflict of interest

A conflict of interest (COI) occurs when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation for an act in the other.

Even the definition stressed that in italics!

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#186 - 2011-09-21 01:41:40 UTC
Wow, this thread is still going? Come on, you are apparently freaking out over one tiny change to game mechanics. There are plenty of good things coming as well, you need to calm down.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Jenshae Chiroptera
#187 - 2011-09-21 01:47:00 UTC
Two step wrote:
Wow, this thread is still going? Come on, you are apparently freaking out over one tiny change to game mechanics. There are plenty of good things coming as well, you need to calm down.


I looked at your assumption. Gave a deep sigh and have gone to bed.

(We have statics to C3 and C4, so we won't be affected by this change but I can totally understand how it will royally mess with other miners)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jita Alt666
#188 - 2011-09-21 01:52:05 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:

3. They do not challenge the corporate structure of CCP or make large accusations against CCP without large amounts of prior investigation.

I have done no such thing.
Jita Alt666 wrote:

In regards to your accusations of Goons attempting to rule the CSM for their own purposes: CSM 4 and CSM 5 largely ignored the development of 0.0 space.

Then you should understand where I am coming from in lack of representation. I am pointing out not only the conflict of interest but the null sec majority.
Jita Alt666 wrote:

Regarding your wormhole whine:

Mining already sucks. Higher classes get more ore and can sustain larger corps.


My goodness your reply is way off topic:
1. I never accused/implied/inferred that you were doing anything. I was simply pointing out that players who make the move from being solely players have things in common. The alliance they play for is not one of those things.

2. A group of players felt they were being under-represented in the game development process. They then used that same process to ensure that they got represented. How do you not understand that? And how can you argue for fair representation and not see their actions as identical to what you are attempting here?

3. Lower quality space lower resources. Higher quality space higher resources. What does this have to do with how boring mining is? We all know mining is terribly boring.
Jita Alt666
#189 - 2011-09-21 01:56:07 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Two step wrote:
Wow, this thread is still going? Come on, you are apparently freaking out over one tiny change to game mechanics. There are plenty of good things coming as well, you need to calm down.


I looked at your assumption. Gave a deep sigh and have gone to bed.

(We have statics to C3 and C4, so we won't be affected by this change but I can totally understand how it will royally mess with other miners)



Devils advocate: You have a personal interest in Wormhole Space. You are complaining about Wormhole Space being modified. You have been angling to attempt to change representation for Wormhole space based pilots. Any comment you make may be an attempt to manipulate the situation for personal gain. You have a conflict of interest.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#190 - 2011-09-21 07:05:38 UTC
The OP has created a conflict of interest by posting this thread.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#191 - 2011-09-21 12:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Jita Alt666 wrote:

3. Lower quality space lower resources. Higher quality space higher resources. What does this have to do with how boring mining is? We all know mining is terribly boring.

At least at the moment they have an ISK incentive.

If ABC ores are dropped entirely from worm holes, I would just stop mining. Make more off sleepers anyway.
I doubt I am the only one that would stop.
Basically, Hulks are used much less and probably would stop entirely. The risk vs gain of mining other ores in WHs just isn't there without ABC ores.

Checked the values of ores which have Zydrine in them? Good luck getting that without Crokite mining

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#192 - 2011-09-21 18:51:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Checked the values of ores which have Zydrine in them? Good luck getting that without Crokite mining


To expand on that, the C1 and C2 miners get less sites, less often, so they make the most of them and mine up most everything that is in them.
I think you will find that most of the Crokite comes from there.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#193 - 2011-09-21 19:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Seleene
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I also think that the CSM needs representation of other aspects of the game to prevent it being blinkered down as single alley, once you turn the behemoth that is CCP.


The current CSM is pretty 0.0 heavy but some of us are pretty knowledgeable about all aspects of EVE. For one thing, myself and Greyscale pretty much invented WH space. Cool

Also, go read this if you want to get a feel for my thoughts on current events.

Anyway, I just spotted this thread. Hi, how can I help? Smile

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#194 - 2011-09-21 19:17:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Any word on the "BIG" DevblogBlink

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#195 - 2011-09-21 19:19:22 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Any word on the "BIG" Devblog


Without breaking the sacred NDA, I will say that we were told the blog everyone is waiting on was going to be out... before now. Obviously they are having about 30-odd people look it over which is probably not the best idea. No, the CSM still hasn't seen a draft of it nor do we know exactly what it will say beyond a few specific issues. That is the part that worries me. The CSM was nearly unanimous in our meeting with Zulu on Friday to just "get the information out there, fluff it up later". Zulu should have just written up a few paragraphs to get the initial blah blah out of the way and then others could follow on with more detailed stuff. Now it looks like they are trying to overdo it or, even worse, the blog will be 500 words of, "Trust us, this is gonna be awesome."Cool

I'm sure it'll be fine in the end, but this is getting... annoying. Pirate

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#196 - 2011-09-21 19:44:18 UTC
Seleene wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I also think that the CSM needs representation of other aspects of the game to prevent it being blinkered down as single alley, once you turn the behemoth that is CCP.


The current CSM is pretty 0.0 heavy but some of us are pretty knowledgeable about all aspects of EVE. For one thing, myself and Greyscale pretty much invented WH space. Cool

Also, go read this if you want to get a feel for my thoughts on current events.

Anyway, I just spotted this thread. Hi, how can I help? Smile



yeah I just wrote out a good post on that but the forum ate it... Straight

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jita Alt666
#197 - 2011-09-21 20:49:33 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:

3. Lower quality space lower resources. Higher quality space higher resources. What does this have to do with how boring mining is? We all know mining is terribly boring.

At least at the moment they have an ISK incentive.

If ABC ores are dropped entirely from worm holes, I would just stop mining. Make more off sleepers anyway.
I doubt I am the only one that would stop.
Basically, Hulks are used much less and probably would stop entirely. The risk vs gain of mining other ores in WHs just isn't there without ABC ores.

Checked the values of ores which have Zydrine in them? Good luck getting that without Crokite mining


1. No one any where has said that ABCs are being dropped entirely from worm holes.
2. Minerals come from drone space. Seriously who mines anymore. Just compress in Jita and export.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#198 - 2011-09-23 09:33:43 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:

2. Minerals come from drone space. Seriously who mines anymore. Just compress in Jita and export.


Stop supporting the ebil botting russian nulsec cheeterz!!!!

Sorry, sorry, I think I may be getting tinfoil poisoning....

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.

Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2011-09-23 09:48:14 UTC
I have to say, my opinion on Goons has changed dramatically.

I have fought on both sides of many of the wars in Eve and have found one HUGE truth: 99% of Eve players are the same, 99% of propoganda about how the enemy are bad, idiots, terrible people or nerds is rubbish. If anything the most annoying and elitist people in game are the 'Elite pvp' guys who treat Eve as a job.

I used to believe Goons were out to wreck the game for everybody because this is the propoganda spread by alot of people. Yes they scam, lie, cheat and steal, but that is Eve. Only this year have I found myself allied to Goons and Test and the CF and I have to say I have never had so much fun in Eve, they play the game to have fun, to enjoy it and it turns out all my preconceptions were wrong. This coalition is not only the strongest I have been in but the most enjoyable.

I also think that as a general rule what the current CSM and Mittani want is actually a BETTER game, not one that favours any particular faction.

LIke I said, this view is from someone who has been on most sides at one time or another in Hisec, Lowsec and Null life.

I see absolutely NO conflict of interest that wouldnt come from any other CSM member or CCP staff that also play the game, no matter what faction they come from.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#200 - 2011-09-23 10:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Rico Minali wrote:
I have to say, my opinion on Goons has changed dramatically.

I have fought on both sides of many of the wars in Eve and have found one HUGE truth: 99% of Eve players are the same, 99% of propoganda about how the enemy are bad, idiots, terrible people or nerds is rubbish. If anything the most annoying and elitist people in game are the 'Elite pvp' guys who treat Eve as a job.

I used to believe Goons were out to wreck the game for everybody because this is the propoganda spread by alot of people. Yes they scam, lie, cheat and steal, but that is Eve. Only this year have I found myself allied to Goons and Test and the CF and I have to say I have never had so much fun in Eve, they play the game to have fun, to enjoy it and it turns out all my preconceptions were wrong. This coalition is not only the strongest I have been in but the most enjoyable.

I also think that as a general rule what the current CSM and Mittani want is actually a BETTER game, not one that favours any particular faction.

LIke I said, this view is from someone who has been on most sides at one time or another in Hisec, Lowsec and Null life.

I see absolutely NO conflict of interest that wouldnt come from any other CSM member or CCP staff that also play the game, no matter what faction they come from.

Everything in this is true, with the added feeling that if CCP employees DON'T play the game, then they aren't qualified to work on it. Everything about Incarna proved that. CCP employees should play the game, and be monitored(just like CSM and ISD are) on their in-game, and out of game, accounts. Blizzard does this with their employees(the IA team there scours 3rd party sites as well as everything run by Blizz for any sign of a break) and people do get fired for mentioning to the wrong person where they work, much less talking about any inside info on the game.

Just have a good IA dept, thats not retardedly overdone so employees fear playing the game, and it is all good.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.