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Question to GM about blobing gates for decloaking ships.
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Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-12 00:47:56 UTC
Hello,

Simple question to any GM is now allowed to blob gate for example with 600 drones to decloak cloaky ships on it?
CCPs last argument against doing that was that it creates unfair lag for ppl jumping in. But now we have Time dilation so this argument is obsolete in my opinion.

Would CCP change EULA to allow pirates / anti pirates / whoever to have another cookie?

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#2 - 2012-02-12 01:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
I'm not a GM, but I would say :
- there is a difference between "lag" (delay between your computer and the hamster machinery) and "lag" (1) (when your own computer cannot handle all the operations and is acting slowly/erratically).
- with your 600 drones, you will create a bit of the first lag, and more of the second "lag". Tidi will only help for the first one. I would even say that Tidi is almost irrevelant in this case.
- 600 drones, it's overkill. I got excellent results with a mere 240 drones, and no GM ever said me that it was too much.

(1) in French, we have a word for this : "ça rame putain".
You can't get some "ram" because you're downloading too many JPEGs with nude women on them -or it would mean that you have opened more than 242 tabs and dude seriously stop that madness-.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#3 - 2012-02-12 01:02:52 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
Hello,

Simple question to any GM is now allowed to blob gate for example with 600 drones to decloak cloaky ships on it?
CCPs last argument against doing that was that it creates unfair lag for ppl jumping in. But now we have Time dilation so this argument is obsolete in my opinion.

Would CCP change EULA to allow pirates / anti pirates / whoever to have another cookie?



The issue was never server lag, it was/is causing client lag by having to render all the drones spontaneously.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-02-12 01:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Xylorn Hasher
Reppyk wrote:
I'm not a GM, but I would say :
- there is a difference between "lag" (delay between your computer and the hamster machinery) and "lag" (1) (when your own computer cannot handle all the operations and is acting slowly/erratically).
- with your 600 drones, you will create a bit of the first lag, and more of the second "lag". Tidi will only help for the first one. I would even say that Tidi is almost irrevelant in this case.
- 600 drones, it's overkill. I got excellent results with a mere 240 drones, and no GM ever said me that it was too much.

(1) in French, we have a word for this : "ça rame putain".
You can't get some "ram" because you're downloading too many JPEGs with nude women on them -or it would mean that you have opened more than 242 tabs and dude seriously stop that madness-.



We have official statement (mail from GM) that deploying more than 60 objects / drones will resault with a ban.

Your argument are invalid.

In null blob fights your computers will also have to render all objects on grid. Was anyone in null banned for that "unfair advantage"? No of course not!

Also use "Remove Drones from Overview" and problem solved.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#5 - 2012-02-12 02:08:19 UTC
*facepalm*
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-02-12 02:40:24 UTC
You will be banned for using large fleets as that causes lag too Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#7 - 2012-02-12 02:41:05 UTC
600 drones would require roughly 120 drone launching ships. If you can't camp a gate with those kinds of numbers.....take a seat.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#8 - 2012-02-12 03:46:08 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
We have official statement (mail from GM) that deploying more than 60 objects / drones will resault with a ban.
I have a better source (statement on this very forum). Sorry, I'm a bit tired so I won't dig for it, but it was :
- there are no define numbers
- if the GM computer didn't laggued when he jumped, it's okay
- the number of allowed objects depends 1) of the GM itself 2) of your goal. There was a stargate in 00 with more than 150 bubbles on it -and yes, it's a bit laggued when you jump in it-. The GM ruled it was fine, because they didnt anchor these bubbles to create lag for the opponents, but because their goal of having a grid full of bubbles was acceptable.

MeestaPenni wrote:
600 drones would require roughly 120 drone launching ships. If you can't camp a gate with those kinds of numbers.....take a seat.
Protip : 8 gilas (or dominix if you're not a cool boy).

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-02-12 07:15:54 UTC
Gate camping supercarrier fleet in Amamake! GO!

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-02-12 12:14:38 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
600 drones would require roughly 120 drone launching ships. If you can't camp a gate with those kinds of numbers.....take a seat.


*facepalm*

Use your brain instead of 120 ships.
Deploy Drones --> Abadon Drones, repeat.
Once deployed they wont move.
We used 4 Dominixes to do that one:

Drone blob

Its like a drone minefield Lol

This one we did some time ago, but GM killed them short after ( damn petitions ).

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2012-02-12 13:02:36 UTC
The only thing worse than a whining carebear is a whining pirate

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-02-12 15:05:54 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
The only thing worse than a whining carebear is a whining pirate


What and expect him to go look for a fair fight when he can try and pop someone who's computer may still be loading the system. I mean comeon, this is L33T pvp he's trying to engage in!
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#13 - 2012-02-12 18:50:45 UTC
Xylorn Hasher wrote:


Use your brain instead of 120 ships.
Deploy Drones --> Abadon Drones, repeat.
Once deployed they wont move.


I did. And that scenario doesn't seem to be all that worthy from a time-wise or ISK-wise viewpoint either. In any description, it appears to be a huge amount of time and effort in order to catch, what?, a single cloaked ship?

I ain't sayin' it wouldn't be a hoot to set up as a goof. But for real?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#14 - 2012-02-13 00:02:34 UTC
I've done some research into the decloaking department, assuming that when you jump thru a gate you appear 15 km away from the gate on the other side, and assuming that your ship is a point with a 2km bubble around it (decloak distance), you'd need 56 ships spread equally around the gate at 15 km to have a 100% chance of decloakng everything that jumps thru, since there's no place for them to spawn farther than 2 km from another ship. Now, if all ships deploy drones the number of ships required is reduced to about 25, assuming drones orbit at 500m.

Of course with 10-15 ships mwd orbiting the gate at 15 with drones out you'll still have a decent chance of catching cloakies. Also, you're not required to salvage the wrecks of ships that you kill nor scoop their corpse, and if those things happen to be at 15, more power to you. Hint: alts in rookie ships Pirate
Kc Decartes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-02-13 06:19:23 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
The only thing worse than a whining carebear is a whining pirate


Pot calling the kettle black?

I'd take a whiny pirate over a whiny high sec dwelling forum troll any day....

D.F.C.S.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#16 - 2012-02-13 11:56:05 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Gate camping supercarrier fleet in Amamake! GO!


That's so 2006.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-02-13 16:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Squidgey
Im Super Gay wrote:
I've done some research into the decloaking department, assuming that when you jump thru a gate you appear 15 km away from the gate on the other side, and assuming that your ship is a point with a 2km bubble around it (decloak distance), you'd need 56 ships spread equally around the gate at 15 km to have a 100% chance of decloakng everything that jumps thru, since there's no place for them to spawn farther than 2 km from another ship. Now, if all ships deploy drones the number of ships required is reduced to about 25, assuming drones orbit at 500m.

Of course with 10-15 ships mwd orbiting the gate at 15 with drones out you'll still have a decent chance of catching cloakies. Also, you're not required to salvage the wrecks of ships that you kill nor scoop their corpse, and if those things happen to be at 15, more power to you. Hint: alts in rookie ships Pirate

56 is way too low. This is a 30 KM wide bubble you are talking about, with a surface area of just under 2828 square KM.

56 would cover the circumference only, anything more than 2km above or below that 2D plane would be well out of range. And we all should know that the spawn point at a gate is nowhere near a 2D circle.

You would need many hundreds of ships to cover that.

Unless there is some magical formula that says incoming ships will never spawn in X area, 56 ships would not be enough to have a 100% chance of decloaking all incoming ships.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#18 - 2012-02-13 23:15:53 UTC
Squidgey wrote:
Im Super Gay wrote:
I've done some research into the decloaking department, assuming that when you jump thru a gate you appear 15 km away from the gate on the other side, and assuming that your ship is a point with a 2km bubble around it (decloak distance), you'd need 56 ships spread equally around the gate at 15 km to have a 100% chance of decloakng everything that jumps thru, since there's no place for them to spawn farther than 2 km from another ship. Now, if all ships deploy drones the number of ships required is reduced to about 25, assuming drones orbit at 500m.

Of course with 10-15 ships mwd orbiting the gate at 15 with drones out you'll still have a decent chance of catching cloakies. Also, you're not required to salvage the wrecks of ships that you kill nor scoop their corpse, and if those things happen to be at 15, more power to you. Hint: alts in rookie ships Pirate

56 is way too low. This is a 30 KM wide bubble you are talking about, with a surface area of just under 2828 square KM.

56 would cover the circumference only, anything more than 2km above or below that 2D plane would be well out of range. And we all should know that the spawn point at a gate is nowhere near a 2D circle.

You would need many hundreds of ships to cover that.

Unless there is some magical formula that says incoming ships will never spawn in X area, 56 ships would not be enough to have a 100% chance of decloaking all incoming ships.


Not to mention the gate has its own size, it's technicly showing as 'at zero' distance on either side, but can be quite far between still. That distance expands on constellation- and region gates. I.e. you can occationally jump through with friends on same gate, and they end up 60-70km from you. ..and just to be picky, the "appear 15km away" = I'm always always 12km from gates, not 15.. Let's see how many thousand ships you'd need for a guaranteed decloak at a regional gate. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-13 23:26:15 UTC
Learning to skillfully fly an interceptor is soooo overrated... Roll
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-02-14 08:25:43 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Learning to skillfully fly an interceptor is soooo overrated... Roll



Cant be done with -10.

Ok, ill do calculations for you to deny that 56 ship bullshi*.

Sphere area - P = 4*PI*R^2
PI = 3,14

P = 4*3,14*(12km)^2 = 1808,64 square kilometers.

Minimal decloking range is 2km lets say that average camping ship size is 1km ( its less but BC is around 900 m long )

So...

1808 / (2+1) = 602 ships just to fully cover small stargate.

That's why we used 600 drones until GM came and spoiled whole fun.











All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
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