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Why are players allowed to sell PLEX
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MACtic
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-08 16:37:17 UTC
I'm sorry if that was discussed already (tried to do a search but it keeps coming back with an error).
This is something which keeps boggling my mind. Why are players allowed so sell PLEX.
I know it is a way to earn ISK but this is the problem IMO.
The question I've been asking myself is Why should I be making any ISK in game when I can just buy PLEX and sell it.
This might be a question that many new players ask themselves.
I think it affects game balance and game play plus It might steer people away from the game because if you can buy ISK without earning it in game by your actions where's the challenge? Besides I already have to pay to play the game so it doesn't matter if I spend a little more.
On the other hand it works in a way that one can earn ISK in game to play the game and not pay real life money. But then again is the game then not too much only about making ISK therefore less time for fun time in game if one is doing so?
I understand it's a way for CCP to earn more money but do you also think it might have more negative effects on players and game itself than good?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2012-02-08 17:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
It's to curb the illegal RMT black market and at the same time provides a method for players that are not as well off IRL to spend more time in EVE to be able to essentially "play for free".

The PLEX system has been around for years now so if there was any really pressing problems with it we woulda seen them by now.

Even if you do buy half a dozen PLEXes for several billion ISK and buy a character from the character bazaar you still need to learn EVE mechanics. EVE has a player skill that is independent of skillpoints and so whenever someone tries to get ahead too fast using the PLEx system it's VERY obvious and usually hilarious cause they still do everything wrong and end up getting a very big explosive ship blown up.

All the ISK and SP in the world won't save you if you don't know how to use it. All the PLEX system does in that regard gives us something to laugh at and gives us fat wallets when an idiot flies a 20 billion ISK ship thinking the can pwn the world and we just kill him and loot it all.

On the other hand making ISK isn't the only form of satisfaction that one can have in EVE. Sure you can buy a bunch of PLEXes so you don;t have to bother with the ISK grind but then from there you still need the SP and "real skill" and with those you can jump right into PVP, which can be every ISK intensive. Lost another battleship to a gatecamp? Sell a couple more PLEXes and do it again.

But like I said, don't use ISK to accelerate yourself too far too fast. You'll just wind up as a killboard laughing stock.

The Drake is a Lie
Shi'on Uzuki
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-02-08 17:43:17 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
It's to curb the illegal RMT black market and at the same time provides a method for players that are not as well off IRL to spend more time in EVE to be able to essentially "play for free".

The PLEX system has been around for years now so if there was any really pressing problems with it we woulda seen them by now.

Even if you do buy half a dozen PLEXes for several billion ISK and buy a character from the character bazaar you still need to learn EVE mechanics. EVE has a player skill that is independent of skillpoints and so whenever someone tries to get ahead too fast using the PLEx system it's VERY obvious and usually hilarious cause they still do everything wrong and end up getting a very big explosive ship blown up.

All the ISK and SP in the world won't save you if you don't know how to use it. All the PLEX system does in that regard gives us something to laugh at and gives us fat wallets when an idiot flies a 20 billion ISK ship thinking the can pwn the world and we just kill him and loot it all.

On the other hand making ISK isn't the only form of satisfaction that one can have in EVE. Sure you can buy a bunch of PLEXes so you don;t have to bother with the ISK grind but then from there you still need the SP and "real skill" and with those you can jump right into PVP, which can be every ISK intensive. Lost another battleship to a gatecamp? Sell a couple more PLEXes and do it again.

But like I said, don't use ISK to accelerate yourself too far too fast. You'll just wind up as a killboard laughing stock.



In a lot of ways, as you stated, the system is set up so you CAN'T accelerate yourself too far too fast. Like you said, all the ISK in the world can't put you in a Rattlesnake if you don't have the SP. And if you do have the SP but can't fit the mods, you're still sunk.

To the OP: It's just a completely sanctioned and legal way to pay for your subscription by playing a whole heck of a lot (which benefits CCP via your direct or indirect advertising, because if that's all you do with your life, certainly other people know it and become curious) or a way to give yourself a quick boost to fund whatever operations you have going on, whether it be buying a capital ship, setting up a POS somewhere, etc.

Keep in mind that the quick infusion still isn't an end-all to the problem. I can use that to set up a POS in a wormhole, but if I don't run the anomalies in the wormhole, whether by a lack of skill or a lack of trying, I'm still absolutely sunk. The POS will go offline eventually and all that ISK will be lost.

So, I can't stress it enough, it's a Catch 22. It serves a new player no purpose whatsoever to use them for ISK, and as a new player you'll general not be doing things enough to make enough ISK to plex your account every month. I couldn't do it for at least 3 months into my EVE experience.
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-08 17:44:40 UTC
Realize that ccp dosent make any extra money out of plex, for every plex purchased and added to the game there is one less person paying them a subscription fee of equal value that month so in the end they don't gain or lose anything.

As said above what it does do is provide an alternative for players looking for a quick boost to their isk rather the buying it from RMT sites. RMT does negativly affect the game because it is largly fueld by bots that farm resources and flood the market bringing down the profit margins for those who put forth actual effort to earn their isk.

So in a way you could say they do benefit because it helps keep RMT from spoiling the markets and therefore keeps the game they make their money from healthier.
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#5 - 2012-02-09 00:13:49 UTC
And you have to realize how easy it is to get the ISK for a PLEX. Just 1h of gameplay per month to get 500 mil. There are players out there that earn for 10+ PLEX/month with little effort.

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#6 - 2012-02-09 00:50:49 UTC
Zanzbar wrote:
Realize that ccp dosent make any extra money out of plex, for every plex purchased and added to the game there is one less person paying them a subscription fee of equal value that month so in the end they don't gain or lose anything.


Nope.

Every PLEX on the market was bought by another player as a GTC for the same amount as a subscription (give or take a few dollars for deals and buying in bulks stuff).

So every account really is paid for.

The Drake is a Lie
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-02-09 05:34:45 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Zanzbar wrote:
Realize that ccp dosent make any extra money out of plex, for every plex purchased and added to the game there is one less person paying them a subscription fee of equal value that month so in the end they don't gain or lose anything.


Nope.

Every PLEX on the market was bought by another player as a GTC for the same amount as a subscription (give or take a few dollars for deals and buying in bulks stuff).

So every account really is paid for.


Yup.

An easy way to analogize it: If I have lunch, whether I put it on an expense account or out of my own pocket, someone paid for that lunch. The same goes with PLEX - someone paid for a months subscription and someone used that subscription.

As for what PLEX is about - it is "redistribution of wealth" - it creates no isk in the game. It simply moves isk from someone that has a large amount to someone that wants a bit more.

Due to it's being sold on the market, it actually removes a small portion of isk from circulation via market fees and the value of the item is determined by the market - those who want it and those who obtain it to sell.

If a large number of players began buying GTC's to get PLEX for selling, the price would drop. When I started, a PLEX was selling for around 255-270 mill. It's a bit more than that these days.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#8 - 2012-02-09 05:42:13 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Zanzbar wrote:
Realize that ccp dosent make any extra money out of plex, for every plex purchased and added to the game there is one less person paying them a subscription fee of equal value that month so in the end they don't gain or lose anything.


Nope.

Every PLEX on the market was bought by another player as a GTC for the same amount as a subscription (give or take a few dollars for deals and buying in bulks stuff).

So every account really is paid for.


And on top of that, having PLEX in the game actually gets CCP even more money than they would have otherwise. This is because it lets the people who can't afford $15 per month play and has someone else paying their $15 (via PLEX).

Every player who pays via PLEX is a player who might not be paying anything at all otherwise (I know that that's the only reason I play, is because I don't have to spend my RL cash on the game).
gfldex
#9 - 2012-02-10 03:23:58 UTC
CCP is selling GTCs to resellers. As a result they are bound by law to allow anybody to sell GTCs for $$$. Scams involving GTCs made a lot of customers unhappy. So they added a secure way of trading GTCs. From there it was a rather small step to turn a GTC into an ingame items.

It's a good question if CCP could prohibit selling a GTC for ISK. That was never tested in curt AFAIK here in Europe (where CCP will try to force you to have the trial, something that wont work in the states).

CCP is accepting Euro or $ as payments. There are plenty of countries (Romania, Hungary and many others in the South) that got terrible exchange rates to both currencies. For some strange reason those who oppose PLEX seam to overlook that most ppl _in_the_world_ simply couldn't afford both an internet connection and even a single EVE account. Simply because of terribad exchange rates.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Sevastian Liao
DreamWeaver Inc.
#10 - 2012-02-10 20:06:02 UTC
EVE's not a nice place. If you're space rich but don't have a clue how things work in the game, most likely before long you'll have lost it all to bad decisions. Besides the inability to fly combat ships effectively, as others have mentioned, I would put in the various tricks and scams aimed specifically at rich but clueless people wanting to buy that supercap, get into certain corps/alliances and whatnot. Some skills only come by via hard experience building up your character from scratch.

Besides, like you already said you're short- changing yourself by relying overly on PLEX to fund your in - game ventures. If you want to bypass the potential fun of figuring out ways to earn ISK in - game, it's your choice to make. People who'd prefer to add on the activity of working out in-game money making system to PLEX their accounts would be enjoying the challenge of planning ahead for their PLEX expenditures, if that's their cup of tea.

Sounds like a win-win situation to be honest. Someone with a "Wow, this is really easy money!" short-term mentality probably isn't the kind to stick around in the harsh universe that's EVE after he gets burned repeatedly, anyway. And if he sold PLEXes other people who are willing to buy them enjoy the benefit, CCP gets more of his money in addition to his subscription fees, everybody wins. Well, except the guy who ragequit, but he'd no longer be around anyway.
Utsen Dari
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-02-15 17:42:25 UTC
PLEX trading is like going to a methadone clinic instead of buying heroin off the street: you're still technically doing drugs but at least it's safe and you're not mixed up with criminals AKA scammers Big smile
Kane Hart
Sanitized Souls
#12 - 2012-02-16 21:22:41 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
And you have to realize how easy it is to get the ISK for a PLEX. Just 1h of gameplay per month to get 500 mil. There are players out there that earn for 10+ PLEX/month with little effort.

Wish someone would actually teach us better ways to make plex like this.,
Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-02-17 01:53:00 UTC
There's actually a metric ton on guides, advice, and Opinions on how to make ISK, and thus be able to afford PLEX and play for "free".

All you need is the 'literacy" and "google" skills, which (unfortunately for some) do not come prepackaged with EVE.

Those willing to put in the hours of research will come away much informed and eventually ISK-heavy though.

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#14 - 2012-02-19 17:43:05 UTC
MACtic wrote:
I'm sorry if that was discussed already (tried to do a search but it keeps coming back with an error).
This is something which keeps boggling my mind. Why are players allowed so sell PLEX.
I know it is a way to earn ISK but this is the problem IMO.
The question I've been asking myself is Why should I be making any ISK in game when I can just buy PLEX and sell it.
This might be a question that many new players ask themselves.
I think it affects game balance and game play plus It might steer people away from the game because if you can buy ISK without earning it in game by your actions where's the challenge? Besides I already have to pay to play the game so it doesn't matter if I spend a little more.
On the other hand it works in a way that one can earn ISK in game to play the game and not pay real life money. But then again is the game then not too much only about making ISK therefore less time for fun time in game if one is doing so?
I understand it's a way for CCP to earn more money but do you also think it might have more negative effects on players and game itself than good?

Because it allows me to play the game for free and helps the players out who do not have time to make isk. Win win! I don't see the problem here. Roll
Cathy Drall
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-02-20 15:32:55 UTC
Zanzbar wrote:
Realize that ccp dosent make any extra money out of plex, for every plex purchased and added to the game there is one less person paying them a subscription fee of equal value that month so in the end they don't gain or lose anything.

Except:

1) plex cost more than 1 month of subscription;
2) plex can also be used to transfer characters, buy in-game items thus are destroyed without being used for game time.

Personally I really dislike PLEX as people can still buy an advantage over poorer players in game.
Which I find disappointing.
Banechild
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#16 - 2012-02-21 13:41:30 UTC
Cathy Drall wrote:

Except:

1) plex cost more than 1 month of subscription;
2) plex can also be used to transfer characters, buy in-game items thus are destroyed without being used for game time.

Personally I really dislike PLEX as people can still buy an advantage over poorer players in game.
Which I find disappointing.


Sure if your definition of advantage is being able to lose more ships then the next guy. Roll

In the end 500mil is peanuts in this game once you get things rolling.
Baellis
M.E.T.B
#17 - 2012-02-21 14:31:48 UTC
PLEX has its advantages, and drawbacks. there are some things in game that i would love to fly but would take me months do earn the ammount of isk required to purchase said ships. by using a PLEX i can earn that money faster. however some people become dependant on plex to keep there account functioning with the ships they want to fly.

I like the plex system because it almost compleatly removes "Gold Farming" from the game and instatutes a fair and ballanced way to buy isk from outside the game. also it gives isk a real world value, last time i figured it out it was something like 25million isk to the USD.

Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-03-16 01:38:13 UTC
Baellis wrote:
also it gives isk a real world value, last time i figured it out it was something like 25million isk to the USD.



If you use current market values then 15 USD is worth 500 million isk, so if you use that as an exchange rate then the players of eve traded over 80 million USD on the market alone last year, that rivals the GDP of some countries, just more proof that internet spaceships are serious buisness
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#19 - 2012-03-16 02:17:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Whether or not you agree with the PLEX system, (personally I don't really agree with it), the important thing to note is that power and influence in EVE does not come from raw ISK. At least, the amount of RL PLEX money you'd need to throw around to significantly affect the game would be absolutely ridiculous.

Example: Say you wanted to buy a Titan through just PLEX money. You would need to spend (50,000,000,000 ISK for a Titan / 500,000,000 ISK for a PLEX) * $15 for one PLEX = $1500 in real money. Even then, Titans absolutely REQUIRE large support fleets to be anything other than an expensive lossmail (so it's only useful with an alliance to support you)...and there are tens (I think hundreds by now, actually) of Titans running around in the game, so you wouldn't even significantly affect the balance of the game then

And because PLEX is an ingame market (people have to want to buy it)...If too many people start selling PLEX to fund their ingame activities, the price will fall and you'll need to spend more RL money to get the same amount of ISK.
Cameron Maple
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-03-18 23:45:25 UTC
Players are allowed to sell PLEX simply because it effects the economy in a positive way, it helps some players that cant pay for real due to financial issues, or just for some spare ISK in the game for ships and equipment. If my post helped, no probs.
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