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Rats Errode Sov Idea
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Farouque Templar
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-02-08 12:30:05 UTC
Sov and Rats.

Would it be cool,

If belt rats and other NPCs, if left un-killed, start to multiply, and keep doing so untill they reach a certain number. Once they get to critical mass, and then form into a fleet and start to attack TCU, IHUB, POS.

WHY THE HELL! i hear u say

Well, It would hinder Alliances that for reasons like to own large parts of null, and not actully do anything with it, if NPCs that were not 'farmed' due to the system being inactive somehow took back sov from that inactive alliance, would be a fitting punishment that it starts to errode away? Afterall a Kingdom with no Soldiers is no Kingdom at all.

Would encourage the null lords to consider letting smaller pets roam around their houses keeping the rats undercontrol, thus ensuring more people getting to enjoy said space.

So to maintain the huge empires, you would need large communities of 'carebears' actully being usefull and helping maintain sov instead of just making money and dodging CTAs.

Also means when the rats build up, good chance to come accross 'infestations' and nuke them for a good bit of cash.


Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-02-08 13:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Daeva Teresa
Great Idea, but hard to implement i think.

Soo rats will reach critical mass and wants to attack pos - they shoot down shield, pos goes reinforced and then what? Rats returns to belts and waits?

CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental and Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order.
Farouque Templar
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-02-08 14:29:40 UTC
Well, im no expert, but the 'rat fleet' keeps putting things into timers/blowing them up, if there is nothing left to attack for a period, the 'rat fleet' continues jumping around belts in a big blob, either nuking enexpectant pilots lol, or being destroyed by the owners of the sov.

Or just discovered by some people and they kill them,

either way im sure rats would be happy to 'wait' for timers just get triggered again when somthing comes out of reinforced
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2012-02-08 15:33:47 UTC
Farouque Templar wrote:
Well, im no expert, but the 'rat fleet' keeps putting things into timers/blowing them up, if there is nothing left to attack for a period, the 'rat fleet' continues jumping around belts in a big blob, either nuking enexpectant pilots lol, or being destroyed by the owners of the sov.

Or just discovered by some people and they kill them,

either way im sure rats would be happy to 'wait' for timers just get triggered again when somthing comes out of reinforced

Your idea suggests balance in a way I had not considered before.

It is widely accepted that PvE players must deal with PvP when it comes knocking. Everything from nullsec alliance battles to hulkageddon. And the reason is always, after you scrape off the justifications, "because we can".

Karma says what goes around comes around. The asteroids are unlikely to offer a serious threat, but rats? Oh yes indeed...

Have em pop through what amounts to a wormhole, and attack the system. Kinda like an incursion maybe. Reinforce POS, and wait around for the timers to expire, then destroy them.
They must be beaten back, or after 48 hours they will leave on their own.
Now, if you DO beat them, as a benefit, the WH entry into rat space will stay open another 24 hours, and have no ship limits to entry.
A super complex with excellent loot.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#5 - 2012-02-08 16:32:04 UTC
Bad pet, get back in the cage.

Also its probably worth noting most PvP characters/alliances are pretty experienced in terms of PvE too. NPC fleets wouldn't be much of an issue, except for the idiots who still belt rat.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-02-08 17:15:18 UTC
We already farm have incursions in 0.0.

Some 'numbers' for you... average 10/10 Complexes (full wave) do about 500 DPS.

An IHUB has 75 Million Shield HP, 112.5 Million Armor HP, and 5 Million Structure HP.
Together it has 192.5 Million HP.

At 500 dps it would take approximately 5 days for the rats to down an IHUB (discounting the various timers and whatnot).



Your idea is also missing one thing, to reinforce all of these things, you first have to anchor SBU's on more then half of the gates in the system; It will be a funny day when I see a Serpentis fleet dock in Jita, and escort a Freighters worth of SBU's to Fountain.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#7 - 2012-02-08 17:28:00 UTC
Xolve wrote:
average 10/10 Complexes (full wave) do about 500 DPS.

Wait, what?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
#8 - 2012-02-08 18:19:32 UTC
Xolve wrote:
We already farm have incursions in 0.0.

Some 'numbers' for you... average 10/10 Complexes (full wave) do about 500 DPS.

An IHUB has 75 Million Shield HP, 112.5 Million Armor HP, and 5 Million Structure HP.
Together it has 192.5 Million HP.

At 500 dps it would take approximately 5 days for the rats to down an IHUB (discounting the various timers and whatnot).


So 100 full waves of them would melt an hub in about 72 minutes? What was your point?

Remove insurance.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#9 - 2012-02-08 18:33:49 UTC
Tenris Anis wrote:
Xolve wrote:
We already farm have incursions in 0.0.

Some 'numbers' for you... average 10/10 Complexes (full wave) do about 500 DPS.

An IHUB has 75 Million Shield HP, 112.5 Million Armor HP, and 5 Million Structure HP.
Together it has 192.5 Million HP.

At 500 dps it would take approximately 5 days for the rats to down an IHUB (discounting the various timers and whatnot).


So 100 full waves of them would melt an hub in about 72 minutes? What was your point?

I was thinking this would be like an incursion, not the same as one in every detail.

It would be specific to the system, and the pirate fleet would be a strategic copy of the fleet needed to reinforce POS and other structures within a 2 hour window. If it takes capitals to do this, they will be present.

This same fleet would zip around the system between 'safe spots' and structure locations, like a patrol, until the timers expired. They would then begin destroying and looting.
After they finish that, they would wait out the remaining 48 hour timer, unless killed.
(A pre programmed invasion, they would never run from fights, giving the defenders a tactical advantage in that regard)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
bartos100
Living Ghost
#10 - 2012-02-08 19:50:35 UTC
I like the idea but there should beno extra rewards besides the normal bountys else it will be farmed to hell and back

Maybe even like incursion rats
No bounty no loot no salvage it would be a way toreduce the massive amount of unused but claimed space so it should be a drain on resources not a big isk pinyata
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2012-02-08 20:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Tenris Anis wrote:
Xolve wrote:
We already farm have incursions in 0.0.

Some 'numbers' for you... average 10/10 Complexes (full wave) do about 500 DPS.

An IHUB has 75 Million Shield HP, 112.5 Million Armor HP, and 5 Million Structure HP.
Together it has 192.5 Million HP.

At 500 dps it would take approximately 5 days for the rats to down an IHUB (discounting the various timers and whatnot).


So 100 full waves of them would melt an hub in about 72 minutes? What was your point?


Because 10-12,000 rats shooting at a structure won't cause any lag at all.

Stay in Empire pubbie.
T'Khlau
Somnium Vita
#12 - 2012-02-08 22:04:37 UTC
Should it not be that if a system is in sov and peaceful that its sec status should go up....
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#13 - 2012-02-08 22:07:34 UTC
T'Khlau wrote:
Should it not be that if a system is in sov and peaceful that its sec status should go up....
You forget, this is Eve. Try and enforce mechanics like that and we'll just end up blowing up our alts to get free -1.0 systems.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
T'Khlau
Somnium Vita
#14 - 2012-02-08 22:35:47 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
T'Khlau wrote:
Should it not be that if a system is in sov and peaceful that its sec status should go up....
You forget, this is Eve. Try and enforce mechanics like that and we'll just end up blowing up our alts to get free -1.0 systems.


Oh you Cynic! I'm sure it could be done though, then again this is EVE...
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2012-02-09 01:46:26 UTC
Farouque Templar wrote:
Sov and Rats.

Would it be cool,

If belt rats and other NPCs, if left un-killed, start to multiply, and keep doing so untill they reach a certain number. Once they get to critical mass, and then form into a fleet and start to attack TCU, IHUB, POS.

WHY THE HELL! i hear u say

Well, It would hinder Alliances that for reasons like to own large parts of null, and not actully do anything with it, if NPCs that were not 'farmed' due to the system being inactive somehow took back sov from that inactive alliance, would be a fitting punishment that it starts to errode away? Afterall a Kingdom with no Soldiers is no Kingdom at all.

Would encourage the null lords to consider letting smaller pets roam around their houses keeping the rats undercontrol, thus ensuring more people getting to enjoy said space.

So to maintain the huge empires, you would need large communities of 'carebears' actully being usefull and helping maintain sov instead of just making money and dodging CTAs.

Also means when the rats build up, good chance to come accross 'infestations' and nuke them for a good bit of cash.




Wouldn't these rat super blobs be totally invulnerable to anything short of a full fleet? If you've got enough rats to grind down millions of HP of sov structures, they;'re just going to alpha anyone who tries to do anything about it. If anything, it'd just encourage botting to keep the numbers down.

As an aside, I live in 0.0, and I find ratting so incredibly tedious that any attempts to make it a mandatory part of holding sov would likely lead to my unsubbing. I doubt I'm the only one.

You've obviously never actually been to nullsec, why not try it sometime?
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#16 - 2012-02-09 08:44:30 UTC
CCP already has a motivational factor to leaving rats alive on belts...its called crap spawns. Ever chain/cull a system that is cold? Talking low grade spawns and less than 1 mil BS rats. Its not fun. Can be a good 1-2 hours of mostl;y sub 1 mil spawns till you pull in the 1.1-1.8 mils regular if its you in the system solo.

Other motivator is system indices go down. Don't rat the system...traps don't work so well and the good pve dries up.

Also its a bit unfair to corps/alliances that you know....actually go out and fight. Was in an alliance that went on a several month road trip. Only ratters in garrison were the broke mofo's building up wallets as the war took its toll.

Eve already has enough crap in game to make alliance stay home and not go out and actually blow up stuff. Lets not have them turtle up some more to keep rat populations down.