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Small gang composition, basics please?

Author
Jeremy Ironforge
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-07 10:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Ironforge
Well just trying to make my corp's flying a little better since "just flying whatever ship is in my hangar" doesn't work.

Here's a few basic questions:

1) Any tips on how to assamble 7-9 people into one efficient gang?

2) What ships to fly? BCs are the most common and cost effective, right?

3) Any need to fitting standartisation?

4) What tank to use? I assume for small warfare shields are better.

5) Any need in specific roles like EWAR and Logi? Do multiple waves of ECM drones work for that scale?

6) Special tatctics like Alpha Tornadoes or Blasterboats warping to "0" worth trying to pull off?

Or if there's some kind of guide please link it to the thread.

Edit: All this in lowsec conditions.
Mohamad Transporte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-02-07 14:19:24 UTC
Notes:
1. I hope these tips will help in your mission, however, these tips are given based on the assumption that you will shoot only on pirates and NBSI (Not blue shoot it) alliances. I highly discourage shooting at miners/ innocent neutrals around all 0.0 & low sec systems. Fly safe and enjoy eve! - NRDS Coalition
2. I assume you will roam and not defend a system and below assumptions are based on 0.0 hostile environment, low sec requires different composition/ tactics


1) Any tips on how to assamble 7-9 people into one efficient gang?
A small gang requires: 1 Dictor, 1 rapier/hugin, 1 lechesis, 1 scout (interceptor), 5 dps (I suggest 4 cheap dps ships + 1 falcon if you are new fc /or 4 neuting / dps canes ships + 1 command ship if u can handle the heat), so basically 1 squad leader with leadership skills (including skills for buffing shield tank) + 8 normal peeps

2) What ships to fly? BCs are the most common and cost effective, right?
BCs ofcourse (canes or shield harbingers are preferred), if you have iskies... u can go for Vagabond speed daemons gang or nano sniping munin gangs

3) Any need to fitting standartisation?
Well.. u need to align the fitting rather than copy and paste... what i mean if u want to be a speed gang... with speed links on the command ship.... u need to ensure that everyone has at least 1-2 nanofbers in their lows... and if u are a sniping fleet...so none of the members should bring ACs... and so on

4) What tank to use? I assume for small warfare shields are better.
Shield ofcourse... because sometimes u need to run fast and bubble the gates behind u so that u save ur retrieting friends... so armor will slow u up... remember: Armour = slow, but more tank + more faster locking speed.... shield = more dps + quick aligning and high speed

5) Any need in specific roles like EWAR and Logi? Do multiple waves of ECM drones work for that scale?
well... i prefer ECM drones instead of dps... but its your call... for logi.. i always say that scimitars are good for 10+ gangs... but if u are going to play sniping games... logi can be useful and safe to use

6) Special tatctics like Alpha Tornadoes or Blasterboats warping to "0" worth trying to pull off?
your call... but again... if you are new start with sniping boats (munin/ alpha tornadoes), much safer i would say if u have a scout ahead and know when u can warp to 0. as a general rule... dont attempt to engage a fleet that outnumber you so that you dont loose morale... once u have a solid grip on FC-ing and u feel ur fleet members are willing to loose ships and gain more fun... then its ok to go for it Blink
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#3 - 2012-02-07 14:43:40 UTC
Small gangs are better if fast and agile. But really depends on targets. First of if you are in null or 0.0 you will need an interdictor to bubble at gates. Second you will need tackler/decloakers, either an interceptor or faction frig etc, Then dps and ewar.

Fast gang fleet:
1 x interdictor
1 or 2 tacklers/decloakers
6 x cruisers and below (fast frigs, AF's )

Option 2 for bigger targets
1 x interdictor
1 x tackler
7 bc's , best if all have same range on the ships, canes, drakes good. You can go with all ecm drones or have one ewar ship.

Make sure you have scout ahead of fleet. Best of luck
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#4 - 2012-02-07 17:33:25 UTC
If you are taking guys out that are new to PVP don't take expense stuff out just to lose it horribly. Take out cheap ships that guys can afford to lose which also means they won't get discouraged from PVP.

Start them cheap teach them how to PVP and work on building your own set of tactics that works well for your group. Then move then up the ranks toward BC's and later T2 support ships.

We are in FW so fights & targets are easy to find but we just stick everyone in cheap Thrashers and have at it. I don't just go out and try to suicide them as KM fodder but we have "welped" a few gangs of them so far which causes a bad kill/death ratio but it's a great way to teach in-experienced guys how to PVP and fly in gangs.

What we are finding works well is Thrashers and Corms with a Griffin or two in the mix. While a gang of newer pilots will typically still get beat down by high SP pilots in the same ship you can pretty much face pound and gank the hell out of just about any solo ship with just a small group of Destroyers, specially when u have ECM support.

You can expand this to go T1 Cruisers and use Nano Shield Gank Ruptures possibly with Osprey Logistics to keep it cheap. If you want to add in EW support toss in a BB & maybe a triple Damp nano Celestis. Of course don't forget some sort of fast tackler.

The point being it's much better typically to learn in cheap ships that are affordable to lose for the average player. If you put a bit of thought into a uniformed gang you can be effective in cheap T1 stuff and you will be that much better as a group when you move on to more expensive ships.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2012-02-07 17:38:07 UTC
Start with td rifters and ecm griffins and work your way up.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-07 17:52:04 UTC
As stated - keep them cheap. Rigs are the biggest cost of T1 cruisers in pvp. Dont rig them until you are comfortable. Will save a lot of lost isk. You can buy and fit another cruiser for the cost of the rigs. Just wait until they have a bit more experience.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Reppyk
The Black Shell
#7 - 2012-02-07 19:11:22 UTC
1 drake 8 falcons.

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !

Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#8 - 2012-02-07 20:26:56 UTC
Organizing a gang composition really depends on the goals you hope to achieve.

Are you looking to GCC? Are you hunting Pirates or baiting out GCC from other players? Are you fighting on gate? Etc, etc.

A fleet needs to be able to tackle, control range, mete out DPS, survive the enemy's DPS. For new players, keep it cheap. Most people suggest frigate gangs, and that is a good way to start: cost effective. However, frigates are very restricted as to who/where they can fight in lowsec. It requires fighting in a belt or fighting someone who is GCC (if on a gate/station). A gang of T1 Cruisers has similar maneuverability and can GCC a solo target on a gate with some certainty of success whlie maintaining a similar cost-effectiveness of frigate hulls. It's also much easier, psychologically, to make the step from running Cruisers to Battlecruisers (the quintessential PvP hull in most areas of the game) than from Frigates, for the FC and for the pilots.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
Hashashin Cartel
#9 - 2012-02-07 21:48:45 UTC
As others have mentioned it really depends on where you plan on fighting - highsec, lowsec, nullsec, on gates, on station, in belts, on the market.

But that being said you can't go wrong with the old tried and true falcon, falcon, tackle, tackle, dps, dps, dps gang.

Yopp
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-08 23:35:38 UTC
Hurricanes and drakes should be the DPS backbones of any small gang IMO. Hurricane is a bit more ganky and the drake is a bit more tanky but both are utterly expendable, do solid DPS, are fast enough to GTFO from heavier gangs, can kill tackle pretty easily, and can take an enormous pounding with good logi support.

After you have your DPS, you need a scout (inties work well, as do interdiction nullified Tengus which are sturdy enough to work as bait as well), maybe dedicated tackle depending on where you are and what you're doing and who the targets are (you should always bring a dictor in null, in lowsec its debatable), two logis, and perhaps ECM (though you'll get blueballed a lot if people see your Falcon).
drdxie
#11 - 2012-02-09 00:41:08 UTC
I am newish to PVP would recommend staying away from frigs and cruiser if you can afford it. You die way too quickly to actually learn anything from the engagement. The group my PVP toon runs with uses a interdictor and mostly PODLA drakes, in NULL. They tough and have lots of GTFO. I find as a new PVP'er there is way to much to worry about and not having to worry about tracking and range is great for a noob pvp'er. just remember if you using nano drake.. don't sit still and take a beating, use your agility. Look in my eve and google and watch some PVP videos, there are many. I recently found Kil2 and Kovorix's podcasts and videos and they are very informative and fun to watch as its nice to know their thought process while pvp'ing instead of listing to music.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Cerlin
#12 - 2012-02-09 06:53:16 UTC
As someone who has recently gotten into pvp within the last 6 months after a couple years of playing (and not doing too shabby at it either) I would say fly whats fun and what matches the gang. Almost all my experience is in small gang warfare and the best gangs I am in are the ones that take advantage of all our players skills.

On this note I am totally surprised no one is talking about the new T3 Battlecruisers in the Null sec context. These ships are beast, have nice range, are REALLY fast and maneuverable, and give your under ten man gang a lot more GANK for your players. The best part besides range is the price and SP requirements are also pretty low, because who CANT use batttlecruisers? And if you have too many caldari carebears just get them to train up their gun skills to 4, its enough to do a lot of damage. When you see an Auto Tornado, Pulse Oracle, and a rail talos eat a equal sized drake fleet (having tackle) you start to really love these ships.
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#13 - 2012-02-09 17:16:30 UTC
You can just have some fun fleets too. Cloaky fleets, destroyers fleets, AF fleets. Grab a bunch of frigs and roam until you die good too! LOL
Make sure guys can have some fun and don't bring what you can't afford to lose.
Annie Anomie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-02-09 17:45:44 UTC
Jeremy Ironforge wrote:
Well just trying to make my corp's flying a little better since "just flying whatever ship is in my hangar" doesn't work.

Here's a few basic questions:

1) Any tips on how to assamble 7-9 people into one efficient gang?

2) What ships to fly? BCs are the most common and cost effective, right?

3) Any need to fitting standartisation?

4) What tank to use? I assume for small warfare shields are better.

5) Any need in specific roles like EWAR and Logi? Do multiple waves of ECM drones work for that scale?

6) Special tatctics like Alpha Tornadoes or Blasterboats warping to "0" worth trying to pull off?

Or if there's some kind of guide please link it to the thread.

Edit: All this in lowsec conditions.


Basically you need to be able to kill most things that can catch you.

Therefore I'd say like shield BC/cruiser. Shieldcanes and nanodrakes are good ISK/performance. Cruisers are very good at running away from what they can't kill. You could consider logi. You probably need a minimum of two though (assuming you're blinky) which is a big chunk of your gang.

You need something no bigger than a fast cruiser to scout gates. The guy doing this needs to be know how to work his d-scanner and be mentally quick , not prone to panicking and able to communicate quickly with you.

Fitting standardisation... it depends how bad at fitting their ships your guys are. Ideally you all want to be burning at a similar-ish speed and projecting DPS to similar range-bands.

Shield tanked ships are quicker and more agile. These are things you often want in a small gang because they let you decide if you're going to engage and then have control over how the fight goes.

Yeah, swarms of ec drones works. It's a bit lame but the more of them you launch the more jams they achieve. You could bring dedicated e-war. A rapier is kinda handy in fast kitey gangs for holding stuff at range to shoot. Arazus are nice in combination with a rapier and ranged DPS (tackle stuff at ranges of up to 100). ECM just works. A dedicated ECM boat with good skills is going to be shutting down 2/3 ships indefinitely.

Same issue as logi though. The more specialised roles, the less DPS you have. How many of these options are worth more to you than the DPS bump you get from another couple of BCs?
drdxie
#15 - 2012-02-09 18:10:17 UTC
Cerlin wrote:
As someone who has recently gotten into pvp within the last 6 months after a couple years of playing (and not doing too shabby at it either) I would say fly whats fun and what matches the gang. Almost all my experience is in small gang warfare and the best gangs I am in are the ones that take advantage of all our players skills.

On this note I am totally surprised no one is talking about the new T3 Battlecruisers in the Null sec context. These ships are beast, have nice range, are REALLY fast and maneuverable, and give your under ten man gang a lot more GANK for your players. The best part besides range is the price and SP requirements are also pretty low, because who CANT use batttlecruisers? And if you have too many caldari carebears just get them to train up their gun skills to 4, its enough to do a lot of damage. When you see an Auto Tornado, Pulse Oracle, and a rail talos eat a equal sized drake fleet (having tackle) you start to really love these ships.


Problem with the T3 BC's is you need to know how to use them. We had a 10 man drake fleet with an interdictor and we caught a gang of 20ish naga's on a gate and were able to drop half their fleet before they got away with very few losses. We did however bump into them a day later and their fleet of tornado's came in at range and made short work of us. A T3 BC is not a guaranteed win, but then no ship is. Its all about the planning...

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

kalbrak Jr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-02-14 03:05:10 UTC
Bombers, and Force recons! maybe a light dictor too

1. Find a high traffic gate in null sec to setup camp on.
2. Use a Rapier or Arazu to tackle incoming ships.
3. Have a few falcons to keep your targets jammed.
4. Shoot them with torps until they die.
5. Scoop loot and cloak.

If you get outnumbered you can setup a bombing run using one of your recons to get a warp in.
tofucake prime
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#17 - 2012-02-14 03:25:25 UTC
Everything everyone said is wrong and bullshit.

5 Drakes or Canes
4 Rifters


That's all you need. Recons are force multipliers, as are logi. People will be more reluctant to engage you the more of them you have.



OR

8 Falcons and 1 Drake, because **** everyone you NEEEEEEEED falcons. Having falcons makes you pro.
Scevvin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-02-14 21:17:31 UTC
Jeremy Ironforge wrote:
Well just trying to make my corp's flying a little better since "just flying whatever ship is in my hangar" doesn't work.

Here's a few basic questions:

1) Any tips on how to assamble 7-9 people into one efficient gang?

There are four constant aspects to any fleet, five if Logistic ships – Oneiros, Guardian, Basilisk, Scimitar – are provided: a fleet commander, scout/tackle, tackle, and dps. I put scout/tackle together because often times the scout will be asked to tackle a ship to either provoke a gang fight or simply gank a lone pilot. There need to be others function as tackle as well in case the scout dies. The only people talking on comms should be the FC and the scout: if someone has a major problem then speak up.

2) What ships to fly? BCs are the most common and cost effective, right?

Because this is going to be a new experience for you and your crew, I highly recommend a standard frigate, battlecruiser, logi set up. If you are going to stay in low-sec, armor might be the better choice to allow more survivability against gate guns if you choose to aggress. Shield provides you with much more maneuverability and speed; but since you guys are there to learn, I would suggest a basic slug-fest type of fleet so that you can concentrate on basic tactics.

3) Any need to fitting standartisation?

This is just as important and ship standardization. Different type of fit is flown in its specific way. If everyone has the same fit, then you will have a consistent and well-run fleet. Especially if you can bring logistics to the fleet, having the same type of tank is absolutely necessary.

4) What tank to use? I assume for small warfare shields are better.

As mentioned, armor provides you much more initial survivability in the sense of having more EHP than shield or nano fleets. However, armor fleets can not move as fast as shield fleets: warp initiation, velocity, and turning (transversal) ability are all much lower because of the bigger mass that comes with armor tanking. Shield fleets can, though, provide you the ability to dictate range if needs be, as well as being more selective with your engagements. A small shield fleet that scouts a larger armor fleet will have no problem in running away.

5) Any need in specific roles like EWAR and Logi? Do multiple waves of ECM drones work for that scale?

EWAR is very effective, but, the ships that have the EWAR bonuses – falcon, rook, kitsune, and scorpion – are very light tanked and can be destroyed very quickly and easily if not flown correctly. Logistics is also another very effective success tool that simply turns a small 10 man gang in to a fleet that can take another fleet twice its size without much problem. ECM drones, when concentrated on a single target, can be extremely effective. I have been jammed multiple times by a concentrated group of ECM drones while flying a Guardian, even with an overheated ECCM II. If you can jam a logi while primarying another Logi, that will be a key strategy you can use to your advantage.

6) Special tatctics like Alpha Tornadoes or Blasterboats warping to "0" worth trying to pull off?

One of the most fun gang compositions you can fly is what is called "nano." Each ship is shield fit with at least one Nanofiber Internal Structure in their low slots. While all four races can fly nano, Minmatar is usually the preferred choice because of their inherent speed and agility. Nano gangs are flown at range from the fleet, never getting within overheated web and scram range: 15km. Rapiers would be better suited in this type of gang to prevent the enemy fleet being able to "burn" out to you for any reason, and to keep that range. This, however, is a harder fleet to pull off than a standard slug-fest fleet, so I would recommend avoiding it until you feel confident in the basics.

Or if there's some kind of guide please link it to the thread.

Edit: All this in lowsec conditions.

Also, try and get to nul sec: it's so much better PvP conditions :)




Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#19 - 2012-02-15 21:32:45 UTC
You'll need ways of pinning down targets, be it bait or tackle. Tacklers are always good. Think more about killing stuff than surviving and you are well on your way :)
Richard Bong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-02-17 04:17:42 UTC
I would go with
1 dictor
1-2 light tackle preferably interceptors
1-2 ecm blackbirds or better
4-5 DPS T1 cruisers, BC's or, HAC's
possibly 1 logi ship prefer Scimitar or Oneirios due to cap stability. Do not bring a osprey, etc they are not worth it. If bringing Logi make sure the gang is all tanked the same way, if not just do whatever.

ECM and logi give you a much wider range of ships you can engage.

If you are just doing a frigate/destroyer roam **** fleet comp just have fun.

[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting!

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