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Hans Jagerblitzen for CSM7

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Author
Anja Talis
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
#441 - 2012-02-22 13:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anja Talis
Nice pitch. I've been impressed with your words on the forums so far. You really actually think before you answer, which is more than can be said for a lot of people!

Question for you:

How do you think changes to the FW mechanics should affect non aligned pilots/corps who live in the faction warfare zones?

(asking as a pilot who is unaligned and lives in a FW zone!)
Sui'Djin
Chaos Wormhole Club
Sleeper Protocol
#442 - 2012-02-22 14:24:12 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


cool stuff .



You have an awesome vision of FW. Way to go.

Hans, you get both my votes. Keep up your good work.
Joyitii
Red.Line
#443 - 2012-02-22 16:31:35 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
Cool Stuff


This is a pretty cool idea. I don't presume to dictate what nullsec'ers want or need, but I think having some kind of smaller-fleet objectives that influence the greater sov-war mechanics can only be a good thing that creates more diversified and frequent PvP.

The point of taking 0.0 space is access to valuable resources that you can choose to exploit, not forcing people to meet ratting quotas to maintain infrastructure. Enforced PvE, which is what Kethry seem to suggest, is a poor way of determining ownership. Admittedly I guess that's not a million miles away from how it works in FW but as has already been discussed in this thread, the incentives for doing so are pretty much limited to bragging rights so its not as though anyone loses out all that badly.

I mean, the idea of invading a hostile system with hulks and out-mining the defenders to take their sov is amusingly surreal, but I don't think it would actually make for entertaining gameplay beyond the novelty value of doing it the first couple of times.

I'm really glad that Goonswarm has been so respectful during Hans entire campaign however I really don't know where you pulled that out of. : /
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
#444 - 2012-02-22 17:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
HELIC0N ONE wrote:

I mean, the idea of invading a hostile system with hulks and out-mining the defenders to take their sov is amusingly surreal, but I don't think it would actually make for entertaining gameplay beyond the novelty value of doing it the first couple of times.


Not saying this is what you would want for 0.0. You guys have your own sov mechanics to work out. However, there are two aspects to this:
1. Expending effort to "live" in a system.
2. Expending effort to deny others to "live" in a system.

"Living" in a system can be anything from having moon gold, mining, ratting, running anomolies, putting up POSes, whatever you think is a good indicator activity.

In the end I think you'd find that if people really want to take over a system, they'll secure it first with pvp (kill all the farmers, kill all their protection) and then they'll send in the carebears to farm it (which they will do anyways to make isk). You probably kill all the hostile farmers in your sov space anyways, so it likely won't change the map too much.

This sort of sov system, however, may not lead to massive supercapital fights that everybody in 0.0 apparently loves. And therefore it may not be appropriate. However, it makes sense to me to be a pefectly acceptable sov mechanic for low sec and perhaps Non-sov 0.0 because corporations do this all the time anyways. L5 systems are already permacamped by groups of corporations who feed off them. CCP could change the figure of merit based on Sov level of system, or perhaps whether a low sec system is inside or outside FW zone, or change it based on different regions.

Anyways, this is a side track and I apologize for interupting Han's campaign.

Go Hans!
HELIC0N ONE
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#445 - 2012-02-22 18:34:05 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
I was under the impression that these "small-fleet objectives" actually entailed, you know, PVP. Where the **** did you get "mining for victory" out of this?

.....

But, please, feel free to put words in my mouth that make me sound like an asinine and ignorant ******, who via guilt by association makes Hans Jagerblitzen potentially support such a clearly irrational proposal and therefore a worse candidate for the CSM7. Work on your forum-fu, bro. /tinfoilhat

Joyitii wrote:

I'm really glad that Goonswarm has been so respectful during Hans entire campaign however I really don't know where you pulled that out of. : /


From here:

Kethry Avenger wrote:
I like the idea of being able to get SOV for actually living in the system, or at least maintaining sov that way. But what if when sov got contested to a certain point instead of doing massive structure grinds on things what if a certain set of FW like plexs where spawned so that mixed fleets would have to be deployed to a system to take over. And say the outcome of the whole day's worth of activity would then determine who had SOV come downtime.


'Sov for actively living in the system' has been advocated frequently before and it always falls down on the idea that taking sov becomes a matter of out-PvEing the hostile forces rather than killing them. If we're going to have plexing races where the force that shoots the most NPC-spawned sov towers gets system control, why not go the whole way and make sovereignty mining too?

But hey, lets all be chill and not derail Hans' (mostly positive) thread too much.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#446 - 2012-02-22 19:03:46 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
'Sov for actively living in the system' has been advocated frequently before and it always falls down on the idea that taking sov becomes a matter of out-PvEing the hostile forces rather than killing them. If we're going to have plexing races where the force that shoots the most NPC-spawned sov towers gets system control, why not go the whole way and make sovereignty mining too?

But hey, lets all be chill and not derail Hans' (mostly positive) thread too much.



I'm not really sure what drives null sec wars but it seems lately there is very little to drive wars. It seems everyone in sov null sec feels (I suspect correctly) that it is more advantageous to be at peace than at war.

Perhaps they need to implement something that is sort of the opposite of the above. The longer you live off the resources of a system the less you get. You more or less milk the system dry and have to move on. So you are better off constantly fighting over new and less used systems.

It could be a matter of 1)how much different areas are farmed and 2)who is farming it.

1) So the more you carebear your system the less it pays until you go conquer new systems.

2) A new conquering alliance would get better profit off the same area than the former alliance was. The longer you are in the same system the less you get. You need to keep moving to new areas to exploit like Genghis Kahn did.

Yes this might mean larger alliances would break into smaller alliances and rotate them to get these bonuses. But isn't that somewhat good in general? And even so CCP could do allot to mitigate that or make that more difficult. For example if new arriving alliance had set the former alliance blue in the last 5 months there would be no increase from the rotation. I know this may just be annoying but wouldn't it lead to some mistaken kills and possibly unrest between friendly alliances that live close by? Wouldn’t this hurt the traditional NBSI?

Or perhaps they would require some sort of destruction to occur in the systems before the system is boosted for the new conquerors. Or they could make it a combination of different factors that all tend to suggest the system was actually fought over and therefore should pay out much more.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Shootin' Star
The Fancy Hats Corporation
#447 - 2012-02-22 20:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Shootin' Star
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
'Sov for actively living in the system' has been advocated frequently before and it always falls down on the idea that taking sov becomes a matter of out-PvEing the hostile forces rather than killing them. If we're going to have plexing races where the force that shoots the most NPC-spawned sov towers gets system control, why not go the whole way and make sovereignty mining too?

Actually, if one had to guess, I'd say the idea was much more like the original FW plexing idea used to be (segueing nicely to Hans' general theme).

Understand, I am not firmly advocating this - but a little back history, shortly after FW was originally released, the absolute best (and IMO most fun) way to get fights was completely tied up with those plexes. FW fleets from either side would roam around hunting for active ones with potential targets in 'em, go in, and the two sides would have at it. Many times, pirates of various stripes would come in on those as well. Yeah, okay, every so often it would just be hitting the plexes yourself to do your part for your faction, because no one else was around to play ... but often as not, they were. And coming generally as small ship (T1 cruiser/T2 frigate) efforts, they were fun as hell.

Obviously, it wasn't a perfect system (hence why I'm not advocating), because the whole FW paradigm moved away from that to farming the missions and mass-fleet engagements (have no idea if it's still there; it's been years). But the point is, there was a time, and it was fun, and despite the PVE element it was tied up intimately with PVP. Could it be made to happen again? And possibly sov-related in null? v0v

I think the bottom line idea as a PVPer is, we need to look at such things as an opportunity instead of just PVE and therefore another liability.
Edna Ironsides
The Gaping Maw
#448 - 2012-02-22 21:15:56 UTC
For the glory of the Republic, the Empire, the State and the Federation:

You have my vote Hans!
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2012-02-22 22:14:31 UTC
Qapla' Hans
or Sucess Hans to those who dont appreciate Kilingonese.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=832884&

If you like the idea put forward by Hans Jagerblitzen then you may also appreciate the comments I placed at the forum link above.



rightuos
The Tempted Strain
#450 - 2012-02-23 00:24:13 UTC
Hans has my vote.

Any chance we could annex some 0.0 as a test bed for future faction war stuffs and thingz. Blink
FlyingSpoonyBadger
Perkone
Caldari State
#451 - 2012-02-23 03:16:23 UTC
Anything is better than the alternative. Good luck Lol
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#452 - 2012-02-23 04:45:27 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
I was under the impression that these "small-fleet objectives" actually entailed, you know, PVP. Where the **** did you get "mining for victory" out of this?

.....

But, please, feel free to put words in my mouth that make me sound like an asinine and ignorant ******, who via guilt by association makes Hans Jagerblitzen potentially support such a clearly irrational proposal and therefore a worse candidate for the CSM7. Work on your forum-fu, bro. /tinfoilhat

Joyitii wrote:

I'm really glad that Goonswarm has been so respectful during Hans entire campaign however I really don't know where you pulled that out of. : /


From here:

Kethry Avenger wrote:
I like the idea of being able to get SOV for actually living in the system, or at least maintaining sov that way. But what if when sov got contested to a certain point instead of doing massive structure grinds on things what if a certain set of FW like plexs where spawned so that mixed fleets would have to be deployed to a system to take over. And say the outcome of the whole day's worth of activity would then determine who had SOV come downtime.


'Sov for actively living in the system' has been advocated frequently before and it always falls down on the idea that taking sov becomes a matter of out-PvEing the hostile forces rather than killing them. If we're going to have plexing races where the force that shoots the most NPC-spawned sov towers gets system control, why not go the whole way and make sovereignty mining too?

But hey, lets all be chill and not derail Hans' (mostly positive) thread too much.


I started a topic in Features and Ideas if you want to keep discussing it. Here is a link.

Good luck Hans!
Temba Ronin
#453 - 2012-02-23 09:40:16 UTC
Good Luck to a player who actually wants to improve the game for the Majority of the players!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Lord Meriak
State Naval Academy
#454 - 2012-02-23 14:51:54 UTC
Good luck,
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#455 - 2012-02-24 03:40:00 UTC
The main thing I am taking away from all of this is that Hans is prepared to consult people for ideas before he puts them on the table.
Do I agree with all of his ideas? Not 100%. But I know he listens and takes on people's points of view. I have had a discussion with him around Bounty Hunting and kill rights etc... and how I would like them to work and I know he has taken that on board to improve and colour what he can table on the issue. As long as this continues, there will be a bright futures for New Eden as CCP will be provided meaningful insight from the great masses.

Internet Lawyer
Frontier Investments
#456 - 2012-02-24 04:40:54 UTC
Hello person with a name that sounds like drunken Germans going on a rampage through France. Welcome to politics. You've had some time now to look the meat over - who do you want to serve beside on CSM 7?

EVE Online Public Defender

Vordak Kallager
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#457 - 2012-02-24 06:07:03 UTC
Internet Lawyer wrote:
Hello person with a name that sounds like drunken Germans going on a rampage through France.


Quote of the Thread right there. Pirate

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#458 - 2012-02-24 11:15:27 UTC
FW is being promised some lovin in the Inferno Expansion, So let's get ourself a voice in the development VOTE HANS

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107

B4MBU
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#459 - 2012-02-24 15:10:05 UTC
Just wanted to add my support for Hans. I have been an acquaintance of his for about two years and in that time I can tell you he is both opinionated and sincere. He'd make a great CSM because he's very diplomatic, he works well with others and he's serious about doing a good job. I will be voting for Hans and I hope you consider him for your vote too.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#460 - 2012-02-24 16:08:22 UTC
I wanted to let you all know I've updated by blog, joining in the banter about the New Player Experience. I shared a few thoughts about some opportunities INFERNO could bring this summer for filling the ranks with new soldiers and subscribers. We'll need extra troops to support the war effort!

I also know there's few recent questions I need to follow up on today, I'll get to them as soon as I'm off work. I appreciate your patience, and thanks again to all the newcomers stopping by the thread to voice your support!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary