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Rogue Drones

Author
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#41 - 2012-03-28 03:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Deceiver's Voice
Roga Dracor wrote:
Knowing now more of the hints, it seems probable there was an insurrection of some sort within Anoikis at some point in time.

Yup.

Quote:
Possibly before the advanced self destruct system was incorporated in the Sleeper Drones. Actually, I would say there was an onging struggle within Anoikis over a period of time, judging from the quarantined Talocan sites and the more recent Ruins of Enclave Cohort 27..

A bit of a reach, but you're looking in the right direction. There's evidence to support the theory. Just because they are Talocan tech does not make them "Talocan". 27 has importance too, but probably not how you think.

Quote:
I disagree that the Jove are dead and "gone", though.. Certainly different and no longer human, their race became in most respects, the Enhuadanni. But, I think that a fragment of Jovian remorse has infected the Sleeper Enclaves, and that some exceptional individuals may have learned a new way to exist.

Yeah... Templar One. If you haven't read it, please do. "Dead" doesn't mean much when it comes to infomorphs, accessible means a heck of a lot. Long and the short of it, if you had access to such technology and a reasonable assumption of security...

Well, let's just say you are looking at the evidence from the outside. It is reasonable to infer this, but there are other possible explanations that fit the evidence better.

Quote:
Then there are the Intaki.. Blink

Oh come now... it isn't that hard to figure that piece out. If the Zephyr didn't whack you over the head with Significance, I don't know what could. Except maybe a certain novel that could fill in the blanks as to why exactly this is significant, or a certain chronicle that lays the readily-available groundwork to piecing it all together.

It's why Intaki is important, and why Ishukone and a certain mercenary group would be looking for a deal over the system with someone important from the Federation.

Long and the short of it:

Let's say, for the sake of "wild speculation", that the Jove are Rogue Drones. That means that they could in fact be dead, yet still "accessible" in a manner. The problem is, how would you communicate with them? The individual drones are not Jovians. The Hives may not be Jovians. In fact, the entirety of the Rogue Drone constructs in New Eden may in fact be only one Jovian's Infomorph backup progressing an agenda, in a pre-determined sequence.

A "mirror", if you will, of "Anoikis". A brother to the Sleepers, a THANATOS if you will. Twisted

So, if you wanted to see parallels to Anoikis in New Eden, where would you look? Would you understand what you were looking at, and the intended goals?

Quote:
"And there the children of dark Night have their dwellings, Sleep and Death, awful gods. The glowing Sun never looks upon them with his beams, neither as he goes up into heaven, nor as he comes down from heaven. And the former of them roams peacefully over the earth and the sea's broad back and is kindly to men; but the other has a heart of iron, and his spirit within him is pitiless as bronze: whomsoever of men he has once seized he holds fast: and he is hateful even to the deathless gods."


EDIT: Look up "Thanatosensitivity". Also, if you haven't read Templar One, DO SO, even if only to understand that some of these questions are pretty much answered.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-03-28 07:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
You never tire of trying to imply that you know something others do not, Auwnie?

I wonder if anybody actually buys it.

On topic: It should not be forgotten that the rogue drones not are a unified entity and that the different hives and strains have developed differently due to strong adaptive capabilities. Well, at least that is the official lore until this common misunderstanding suddenly finds its way to the Fiction Portal.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Dimitri Drakovich
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#43 - 2012-03-28 16:22:47 UTC
On the note of slight easter eggs on CCP's part and what the rogue drones say, the one rogue drone message I converted from binary to not... binary... translated into "all your base are belong to us", or whatever that one quote is.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#44 - 2012-03-29 01:51:01 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
You never tire of trying to imply that you know something others do not, Auwnie?

Sorry, not Auwnie. I'm just a disenfranchised fan of EVE watching from the sidelines as a well constructed plot is ignored because of the source.

SPOILER:

Templar One answers everything, though the answers probably aren't what most people are looking for. It's really as simple as "Sleepers are Jove", "Enheduanni control people", and "Rogue Drones and Jove are connected in some way that we're not going to openly answer now because it will give away too much of what we have planned".

Long story short (and "REAL SPOILERS AHEAD", or "SERIOUSLY GUYS, TOTALLY SPOILERS")

1. Sleepers are Jove. Yes, Jove.
2. Enheduanni are really ancient Jove (apparently).
3. Jamyl Sarum was cloned and put back together with Sleeper/Jove technology, which was in turn "infected" with a Sleeper AI construct.
4. Enheduanni manipulate the Minmatar Elders.
5. Grious, a Jove, attempted to thwart the Enheduanni plans... which nearly fully gives away his identity as "The Broker".
6. VILAMOS is a drone used by Ishukone to synthesize Insorum. Definitely Jovian, possibly a Sleeper... (half joking btw). The name is a reference to the father of an assassinated Ishukone CEO.
7. Jamyl (as evidenced by the "Superweapon" being refueled at a rogue drone station), can control rogue drones. She can also control Sleeper Drones. It is, of course, not her, but the "rogue drone" AI in her head. This shows what is readily apparent to anyone running the Sisters of EVE Epic Arc: that Sleeper drones rewrite drones into Rogue Drones, and the connection is now readily apparent between Sleepers and Rogue Drones.
8. CONCORD has some nifty tricks that involve clones and AI.
9. If you read Theodicy, The Empyrean Age, Templar One and Ruthless, as well as the chronicles and the Sisters of EVE Epic Arc... you realize you've spent far too much time reading about EVE and far too little time outside. I know this from personal experience. :-P

Finally:

Intaki Reborn/Ida - Probably more investigation needs to be done in that regard, what with the Zephyr and all. See my point on Jamyl above.

Regardless, that's your "mysterious" connection; the Rogue Drones and Sleeper Drones share a common origin, and that origin is most likely Terran if not Jovian. It all ends up in an "unfortunate series of events", and in the end, there's more going on than you probably think (including Sansha invasions; the proof is in the nomenclature, btw).

Anyways; believe it, disprove it, whatever. My job is done. I can now retire from EVE...


...or not. Pirate
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-03-29 08:46:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Reading the stuff takes far less time than writing it.Smile

That the Sleepers and Jove are kinsmen are in fact an old revelation already hinted the Mysterious Sightings mission as background information. I further managed to put the remaining pieces together before the publication of Templar One (here).

I think people should be very careful to distinct between the different drone groups and not merge them together simply because they are drones. Your Hobgoblin I is not of Jovian origin either. As such VILAMOS, invented by a brilliant Ishukone senior officer, is not a rogue drone and nothing suggests it should be anything but a very well designed construct. Same goes for the drones onboard the Significance with Dr. Marcus Jror.

I think both the SoE epic arc (which I have all written down here) and the We Humans chronicle actually tells you that the rogue drones are an emergent intelligence that in many ways is in its infant stage. It is not something somebody created on purpose and while it is true that Sleeper/Jove technology appears capable of controlling rogue drones the rogue drones themselves resent this control strongly. This is exemplified by Kotan's discussion with the rogue drones in We Humans and the presence of a rogue drone hive at the final mission of the SoE epic arc that has come to ensure that Dagan no longer will be able to influence control through Sleeper technology. You should further read this A'J project that describes the self-regulating mechanisms the rogue drones apply to keep control.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#46 - 2012-03-29 09:22:43 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
I think people should be very careful to distinct between the different drone groups and not merge them together simply because they are drones. You Hobgoblin I is not of Jovian origin either. As such VILAMOS, invented by a brilliant Ishukone senior officer, is not a rogue drone and nothing suggests it should be anything but a very well designed construct. Same goes for the drones onboard the Significance with Dr. Marcus Jror.

I totally agree. Two points however:

1. VILAMOS is a bit more than meets the eye, I would wager. I am fairly sure it's the "unnamed source" in the World on Fire chronicles that speaks to the Blood Raider Captain. No proof other than instinct though to back that up... Blink The other possibility is a bit too wild to say, and it's just out there - because honestly, if the drones guarding Jamyl's Superweapon were rewritten by a Sleeper AI...

...yeah, best not to look down that road, I think.

2. Jror's drones weren't rogues, but a drone was used by Grious to contact Marcus. Twisted Was it rogue? Meh, it seemed fairly controlled to me.

In closing:
I'm not going to get sucked into the debate! I've got my very strongly held theories on the Sleeper/Rogue Drone backstory, they contradict the mainstream view, and I shall sit quietly in my corner jabbering nonsensically to myself from now on.

Won't hear a peep.

Honest.

Blink
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-03-29 12:25:13 UTC
I do not know if there is a mainstream view. All I know that there is my hypothesis backed up by examples and interpretations and then there is a multitude of other guestimates and wishful thinking that live by the hope that the Storyline team will pick up on their little interpretation of events and make it Prime Fiction.

Remember, there really is not much more to EVE Prime Fiction that what is already available for players to see. Cleverly CCP decided not to nail down every lore detail making it much more flexible for them. This also means that whatever explanation or theory you might hold on to could be true as nothing is set in stone, which makes my methodological approach not much better than making stuff up on the spot.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Roga Dracor
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#48 - 2012-03-29 12:57:16 UTC
And you neglect the Jovian Lab Rats, who are most certainly inclusive of these AI's as "Jovians".. So, in fact some of them MAY have been created for purpose.. Rogue Drones could be interupted data transfer signals picked up by random drones, or attempts by any number of agencies who have bits of Sleeper tech (amongst other techs) and toy with the infomorph\artificial intelligence field.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Hans Zwaardhandler
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#49 - 2012-03-29 20:51:47 UTC
The only problem with the theory regarding VILAMO is that he seems to be more centered around protecting Mila and the Insorum facility... it is likely that he got hijacked by another entity and spoke to the Blood Raider captain, but I think that it is someone else, someone of Jovian origin. And the Jovians as Rogue Drones... then we must be killing quite a bit of them some times in missions and what not.
Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#50 - 2012-03-30 05:20:43 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
The only problem with the theory regarding VILAMO is that he seems to be more centered around protecting Mila and the Insorum facility... it is likely that he got hijacked by another entity and spoke to the Blood Raider captain, but I think that it is someone else, someone of Jovian origin. And the Jovians as Rogue Drones... then we must be killing quite a bit of them some times in missions and what not.

Well, it's a theory. There's more backing it, and far more theories where that came from, but I learned a while ago that when someone says something unpopular they tend to draw a lot of attention (more so if they're actually correct).

Long and the short of it:
1. Mabnen is important in linking the Blood Raiders, Insorum, VILAMO and (more importantly) Ishukone and Zainou.
2. The Jita 4-4 chronicle fills in some blanks if you are a keen observer.

VILAMO may be the creation of a brilliant mind, but what technology is it based on? VILAMO is a very personal name to give to a construct as well. The name is important to a certain ex-CEO of Ishukone. Insorum and Mila were important to him, so they are important to VILAMO.

Oh, and Jowen? You might find these links interesting. Blink

Aether
Aether Drone Hive

On the SOE Arc: Dagan wasn't controlling the Drones. He was doing something worse, and the fact that the four Empires and Rogue Drones are present at the final meeting is important, and not what you think.

Trust me when I say this, it may not make sense at first.

Research. Document. Educate. It's the only way to be sure. Twisted
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#51 - 2012-03-30 06:10:24 UTC
Deceiver's Voice wrote:

5. Grious, a Jove, attempted to thwart the Enheduanni plans... which nearly fully gives away his identity as "The Broker".


I'm sceptical about this, their plans seem orthogonal to me, care to elaborate?
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-03-30 06:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Deceiver's Voice wrote:
Oh, and Jowen? You might find these links interesting. Blink

Aether
Aether Drone Hive

Ehm... yes, I already linked my much more extended research into this previously. Two reports (Algintal Reports 1 - Wrtuk Formur and Algintal Reports 2 - Dronietta) as well as an analysis of the findings (Investigation of the Algintal Rogue Drone Hive). I do not think I can cover that topic much further.

Seemingly you are missing a part here:
Deceiver's Voice wrote:
Research. Document. Educate. And hope people actually pay attention and not go on their ramblings

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#53 - 2012-03-30 07:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Deceiver's Voice
Wyke Mossari wrote:
Deceiver's Voice wrote:

5. Grious, a Jove, attempted to thwart the Enheduanni plans... which nearly fully gives away his identity as "The Broker"


I'm sceptical about this, their plans seem orthogonal to me, care to elaborate?

Grious acting against the Enheduanni is plainly stated in Theodicy. It is reiterated in Templar One, though he admits that it was probably a mistake. Oops

The Broker definitely acted against the Enheduanni's plans in The Empyrean Age, though The Broker's many personas may not have been aware of why he was doing what he was doing. Blink The evidence points to a goal of restoring balance between the Empires. A plan is set in motion that brings Enheduanni-aligned interests to the forefront, and conversely a counter-movement is started to contain this offensive. All the while, CONCORD watches on, and with a front row seat in one instance (hehehe). While it may seem their position has been compromised, in the end they come out stronger for it.

Ask yourself this; what specifically did the Broker want? Why was he striking, and who's position was weakened by the acts? What was the net outcome, and can the ultimate fallout be truly predicted?

In the end, who lost the most?

Not just over the course of The Empyrean Age, but Templar One as well.

I will concede one point though. I haven't fully convinced myself. Regardless, it is where the evidence leads, and most of my doubt comes from the sheer ambiguity of the chronicles (though much of that is cleared up now that Templar One is out).

Jowen:

I am actually being rather forthright and trying to lay out some of my process here. I'm trying to keep it a little light hearted, because truth be told, I take this fairly seriously, and I can (and have) done fairly drastic things when confronted with (perceived) ridicule (like deleting a 50 mil SP character because I figured out quite a bit of CCP Dropbear's hints, and realized at the time no one would even consider the realizations...). I know that's not your intent, but I would like to humbly ask: Please don't misquote me, I'm trying to play nice. Big smile Also, if you don't get the reason for what I am linking, just ask.

For instance, Aether has a very specific connotation, and it's relevance to the name of the Sisters of EVE arc (as well as the World on Fire chronicles) is VERY important, from a meta perspective.

My mind works in a rather odd way. I also don't mean to sound as condescending as I come off as, it sounds a lot better in my head than it does in writing.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-03-30 08:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Frankly, I do not think Dropbear ever knew much about the Algintal missions before I showed them to him through that A'J project.

And I am convinced Tony G for certain knew nothing about them at all. And as he, and not Dropbear, was the brainiac for the overall storyline I am not going to draw connections between those missions and the "epic" plot.

Anyhow, both Dropbear and Tony are gone and the EVE storyline is up for a new interpretation with the new storyline team.

EDIT: It puzzle me why people do the assumption that all history, past and present, and lore has been defined and written down by CCP. CCP storyline developers have already clarified that if it is not already written in a chronicle, chances are good that nothing has been decided on the topic as they do not want to limit their possibilities with the lore in the future. That is why you cannot really guess right or wrong regarding EVE lore as nobody had decided on an answer when you made the guess.

Further, EVE Prime Fiction is not written by one guy but many people have contributed both writers and developers and many of them are no longer with the company. At some point even CCP lost track of all the pieces which is one of the issues the Fiction Portal has been stated to try to improve upon. I am constantly bashing CCP for not being able to write their lore as a legacy but instead having each and every contributor adjust previous made Prime Fiction according to own needs, so I am not going to buy all these suggestions that some obscure reference in some long forgotten COSMOS mission written by a former CCP programmer when the company was small is obviously and with intention connected to a very well defined plot.

There was no intention. There is no red thread.

BUT, what we as players can contribute with is trying to connect all these lose dots that CCP has made with meaningful argumentation and logical connections. That is what we tried to achieve with A'J. Of course, that work gets really hard when CCP continue to redefine the setting and plot and not accept the restrictions of previously made Prime Fiction. In fact, it seems they have trouble accepting our attempt to connect the dots in the first place, maybe out of fear of losing control.

Sadly, the Content and Storyline team has been minimized and the idea to draw in new players through promoting the IP appears to have been put on ice.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#55 - 2012-03-30 09:19:46 UTC
Right, back to my corner. Roll
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-03-30 09:33:05 UTC
Heck, feel free to speculate wildly in the open like the rest of us. But assuming that what you have is the "truth" and therefore something that should not be shared is taking it to a place where it does not belong.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Deceiver's Voice
Molok Subclade
#57 - 2012-03-30 10:46:24 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Heck, feel free to speculate wildly in the open like the rest of us. But assuming that what you have is the "truth" and therefore something that should not be shared is taking it to a place where it does not belong.

Meh, truth is overrated. Twisted
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-03-30 11:39:20 UTC
Sorry if you feel I pick on you, but my goal is to encourage more people to openly speculate and contribute to possible interpretations of Prime Fiction and lore. But I fear many get put off by the cryptic messaging, Wikipedia links out of nowhere and the hints that some official explanation of all things has already been established, out of common sight, and that you are stupid if you have not figured out yet. A shame when the truth is that everything is up in the air and your interpretation is just as well as the next guy.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Roga Dracor
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#59 - 2012-03-30 18:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
But, the cryptic messaging and sly misdirection is fun, Jowen.. P

Nor is opening your mind to new concepts and cultural attitudes a bad thing.. , even if Wikipedia is NOT 100% ACCURATE, it does contain factual information that can be hard checked in other places for those with the inclination. Semiotics is a hard science, well soft science, from science fiction comes science fact, and conversely, too..Pirate

I do agree with you on the point that many should be more vocal and put their two cents in.. But, on the other hand, not all of us can be "Jovial" about the hard rhetoric and criticism that inevitably follow..

Most of the likes I've recieved (good thing there is no dislike button)Evil have been when I have darted AWAY from the mainstream view and gone on my mad ramblings, as much because it brings the Lore fanatics like you out to fact check my work.. With the Devs always so "enigmatic" about the facts of the history, people like you are all we lazy guys can rely on..Blink

Quite honestly, the squishy bedrock of New Eden is a good thing.. Again we agree.. Roll

Vivid imagination is an inherent part of the "gaming world", With it's thousands of star systems and incredibly long mortality rate to the present, a thousand miracles or nightmares could be just beyond the next gate.. I still haven't seen anyone who can give me a plausible (or official) reasoning behind the giant friggin' shuttles floating at random spots in our universe. Fly your ship up to the canopy on one.. Compare the scale.. Also notice their uniform method of destruction.. What's the story on that?Shocked

Still a thousand questions to speculate on.. Let's hear it people!

Oh and by the way, just poking fun, not trying to be an @$$...

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Borascus
#60 - 2012-03-30 19:24:40 UTC
@Roga: If I stated that a plausible scenario was: Sleeper's originally aimed at the Hyperbole Nexus to transmit information and stellar movement caused the Cobalt Edge to act as an end receiver, whereby the information in transit miss-hit and had to be processed there, instead of the Hyperbole Nexus. <-- then that would be a mad rambling, with plausibility.


Most of your threads/posts are actually cultivating as well as captivating and that in itself is the meaning and spirit of fiction.