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Nullsec fleet doctorines, how many are you aware of and who uses them?
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Allyia Base
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-02-06 01:51:59 UTC
I'm doing a little research to see who's flying what these days. When I left the game a few years ago it was all abaddons or maybe it was geddons. Something with hacs, don't recall the rest.

Thus far i've been able to discern:
-Drakefleet: Goonswarm and allies, AAA, lots of smaller alliances.
-Maelstrom/Alpha and variants: Goonswarm and allies, some russians with artillery abaddons (could be mistake on that count)
-Abaddons/Hellcats: Have seen some of these here and there, not sure who's using them regularly.
-Tengus: PL, AAA, some other smaller alliances
-HAC fleets of varying types: Smaller alliances
-Rokhs (never thought i'd see them again): Raiden (I assume this is some new incarnation of BoB since the faces are familiar), some others I can't recall
-Also noticed a lot of tier3 battlecruiser usage although I hesitate to call it anything

If anyone has some more intimate or up to date knowledge about this kind of stuff feel free to chime in.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#2 - 2012-02-06 02:19:55 UTC
There's also Welpfleet (autocanes w/ neuts + scimitars).
And you've forgot the Bomber Wing. Every alliance has one.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-02-06 02:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Allyia Base wrote:

-HAC fleets of varying types: Smaller alliances


<----- Mewninns.

Quote:
-Rokhs (never thought i'd see them again): Raiden (I assume this is some new incarnation of BoB since the faces are familiar), some others I can't recall


pl started rokhs like... a year ago? i remember fighting them once in venal, i thought it was a gimmick comp designed to humiliate us by using the worst ships possible, but apparently it's a serious comp.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#4 - 2012-02-06 02:57:15 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Allyia Base wrote:

-HAC fleets of varying types: Smaller alliances


<----- Mewninns.

Quote:
-Rokhs (never thought i'd see them again): Raiden (I assume this is some new incarnation of BoB since the faces are familiar), some others I can't recall


pl started rokhs like... a year ago? i remember fighting them once in venal, i thought it was a gimmick comp designed to humiliate us by using the worst ships possible, but apparently it's a serious comp.

rokh fleets aka shieldcats are like hellcats after the hybrid buff.
If PL want fights, the fly Mallers. :>

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#5 - 2012-02-06 03:16:42 UTC
Don't mean to draw off topic, but to sate my own curiousness. Can you all elaborate on those comps? Aka why etc? Assuming the mael and the rest of the battleship spams is a dmg / range race to kill off the other, but curious about the specifics. Perhaps why this bs than the other etc. And always more on the smaller ships etc.

To my demise I'll only ever fly gallente stuff, but do like to read about the rest regardless. Thank you in advance :)

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Allyia Base
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-02-06 03:37:20 UTC
Drakes because they're cheap, relatively tanky, and project damage to around 100km.
Anything with artillery because instantly dead ships cannot be repped.
Abaddons because insane brick tank + best dps to mid range.
Rokhs, I assume, something like abaddons except more range and less dps with similar tank.
Tengu, not sure, probably some combination of drake projection, extreme mobility, resists, etc.

The short version(s).
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#7 - 2012-02-06 04:01:39 UTC
I see, given I seldom hear about them, is gallente really that gimped in that pvp scale? I know I see it in small gangs etc. but Ugh

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Dai'nin Roi'nin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-02-06 04:14:46 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
I see, given I seldom hear about them, is gallente really that gimped in that pvp scale? I know I see it in small gangs etc. but Ugh



You can get a blaster cata up to 650+ dps to suicide hulks. That's PvP too.
Treia Laguna
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#9 - 2012-02-06 04:27:49 UTC
Dai'nin Roi'nin wrote:
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
I see, given I seldom hear about them, is gallente really that gimped in that pvp scale? I know I see it in small gangs etc. but Ugh



You can get a blaster cata up to 650+ dps to suicide hulks. That's PvP too.



700.


[Catalyst, Catalyst: 700 DPS Suicide Gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x1
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-06 04:38:36 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Don't mean to draw off topic, but to sate my own curiousness. Can you all elaborate on those comps? Aka why etc?


AHACs (AB pulse Zealots) were built to counter 100km fleet BS which used long range turrets by getting under their tracking. Done right, you'd take virtually no damage, but the downside was 34km optimal of the Zealot and it's squishy nature once webbed/painted/neuted.

Hellcats (pulse Abaddons focused on resist rather than buffer) are just the extension of Amarr fleet superiority, having better tank and damage projection than any other fleet comp. Literally nomnomnoms AHACs thanks to support from web Lokis and tackle Proteuses.

Thundercats (10MN HML Tengus) replaced AHACs, doing pretty much everything they could do up close. Or if the people you were fighting were competent, sit out at 100km+ doing the same damage and still sig-tanking Tremor L since they were outside of boosted+bonused Huginn web range. That also means being outside of heavy neut range.

Alphafleet (1400 Maelstroms) were to break through rep-heavy Hellcat and AHAC gangs by literally instapopping anything. With a full fleet, I was once instapopping trimarked and max-tanked Archons playing station-games during a fleet fight (which was pretty cool). Backed by sufficient Huginns and an FC who knows how to position fleet (or at least call a starburst) can chew through AHACs pretty well.

Welpfleet (max tank/gank shield Canes with 2x neuts) were for killing supers. They are cheap fit, with resist rigs instead of (more expensive) buffer rigs.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#11 - 2012-02-06 04:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Luba Cibre
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Don't mean to draw off topic, but to sate my own curiousness. Can you all elaborate on those comps? Aka why etc?


AHACs (AB pulse Zealots) were built to counter 100km fleet BS which used long range turrets by getting under their tracking. Done right, you'd take virtually no damage, but the downside was 34km optimal of the Zealot and it's squishy nature once webbed/painted/neuted.

Hellcats (pulse Abaddons focused on resist rather than buffer) are just the extension of Amarr fleet superiority, having better tank and damage projection than any other fleet comp. Literally nomnomnoms AHACs thanks to support from web Lokis and tackle Proteuses.

Thundercats (10MN HML Tengus) replaced AHACs, doing pretty much everything they could do up close. Or if the people you were fighting were competent, sit out at 100km+ doing the same damage and still sig-tanking Tremor L since they were outside of boosted+bonused Huginn web range. That also means being outside of heavy neut range.

Alphafleet (1400 Maelstroms) were to break through rep-heavy Hellcat and AHAC gangs by literally instapopping anything. With a full fleet, I was once instapopping trimarked and max-tanked Archons playing station-games during a fleet fight (which was pretty cool). Backed by sufficient Huginns and an FC who knows how to position fleet (or at least call a starburst) can chew through AHACs pretty well.

Welpfleet (max tank/gank shield Canes with 2x neuts) were for killing supers. They are cheap fit, with resist rigs instead of (more expensive) buffer rigs.

That sums it up pretty much.
As stated before, rokhs fleets are similar to hellcats, but aren't flown so often. :(

Drakefleet: Cheap, newb friendly, massive range / buffer, relatively fast, average dps.
Naga / Tornado Fleets: Like Sniper HACS, but more isk efficient.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-02-06 04:53:54 UTC
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
I see, given I seldom hear about them, is gallente really that gimped in that pvp scale? I know I see it in small gangs etc. but Ugh


My alliance runs a Gila comp, it's pretty cool for what it does.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11923881
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12345278
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12344770
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#13 - 2012-02-06 04:58:40 UTC
Cool Big smile thank you for the replies <3 Would love to learn about anything else about them if anymore are willing to share, but I wont detract from post. Thanks again.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#14 - 2012-02-06 08:55:26 UTC
There's a popular nano-range fleet comp which goes like this:
Tornados / Nagas
Huginn
Lachesis
Gang boosting Loki/Claymore
+/- Scimis depending
100Km tackle and 65km webs, 1800m/s Tornados, insane alpha. 1700m/s Nagas with better sustained DPS. That's the typical nano-range sniper fleet.

I'm a proponent of the RR AF doctrine for small gangs - armour tanked remote rep AF's like the Vengeance, deployed in numbers, with appropriately insane sig tanking. Approach, scram, orbit at 500m, DPS down and rep the primary. Its lethal versus BC's. I'm not sure how well this will fare with the MWD sig buff but I suspect it might be a bit OP since you can make a Punisher tank 40K actual damage.... Espeically since your Vengeance now has 30% more DPS and you can fly a Retribution with it as well.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-02-06 09:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Nylith Empyreal wrote:
Cool Big smile thank you for the replies <3 Would love to learn about anything else about them if anymore are willing to share, but I wont detract from post. Thanks again.


Well, the fit isn't secret since we've been running Dangerfleet for a few months now, we (ab)use the Gila's resist bonus, ample dronebay and generous midslots to dualprop. Dualprop is because we want MWDs to pull/maintain range control, AB to sig-tank. Dangerfleet has more support (4-6 recons, 1-3 dics/hics) because sentries have fairly bad tracking and a lot of dudes don't have drone or Gila skills.

I kinda don't want to get into the exact hows and whys of how to engage other comps, but when it works, it's pretty hilarious. When it doesn't we lose a bunch of 170M faction cruisers lol.
Mona X
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-02-06 13:24:43 UTC
Allyia Base wrote:
Drakes because they're cheap, relatively tanky, and project damage to around 100km.


70.

I need new signature.
Xayder
modro
The Initiative.
#17 - 2012-02-06 13:50:11 UTC
Rifterswarm Best swarm

I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-02-06 15:54:54 UTC
my corp flies frigates and cruisers.

hello
tofucake prime
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#19 - 2012-02-06 16:41:28 UTC
People seem to forget that a heated, boosted Huginn with FN Webs (why put RF point on Lach and not FN Webs on Huginn?) has 107km web range. Boosted FN Huginn (without heat) gets 85k. Unboosted FN Huginn (heat) gets 73k.

If you're only getting 65k you're doing it wrong.
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#20 - 2012-02-06 17:34:01 UTC
Boosted is from command links? Still learning some of the verbage.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
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