These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Out of Pod Experience

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Eve versus Star Trek
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2012-09-04 20:09:05 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
The federation who just ask the Klingons to do us over.............. Imagine sat there waiting for the feds to show up and a K't'inga class battle cruiser decloaks 200 mtrs off your ships arse. Change underwear time


Not if you're in a blaster boat Pirate

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2012-09-04 20:14:03 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
The federation who just ask the Klingons to do us over.............. Imagine sat there waiting for the feds to show up and a K't'inga class battle cruiser decloaks 200 mtrs off your ships arse. Change underwear time


Scram it, web it, neut it, Jam it with your heavy ECM drones and then eat it alive with antimatter Blasters while jamming their communications with a mix of porn, imgur links and ZOR chains. Welcome to Goon space come visit VFK any time.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2012-09-04 20:24:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
ctx2007 wrote:
The federation who just ask the Klingons to do us over.............. Imagine sat there waiting for the feds to show up and a K't'inga class battle cruiser decloaks 200 mtrs off your ships arse. Change underwear time


Scram it, web it, neut it, Jam it with your heavy ECM drones and then eat it alive with antimatter Blasters while jamming their communications with a mix of ****, imgur links and ZOR chains. Welcome to Goon space come visit VFK any time.


After you eventually get kicked out you can join the club of used to be goons. We have our own coffee mugs and there's a pen shortage so I'm afraid that all pens need to stay in the office

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers
#204 - 2012-09-04 20:31:40 UTC
Dunno if it was mentioned but eve warp speed is significantly faster than ST warp speeds. So eve ships could do what eve ships do best: run away.
stoicfaux
#205 - 2012-09-04 21:05:26 UTC
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Dunno if it was mentioned but eve warp speed is significantly faster than ST warp speeds. So eve ships could do what eve ships do best: run away.

Seeing as how combat takes place at sub-light speeds in Eve... ST ships normally stay below 25% of light speed in order to avoid relativity problems. So that's 74,948,114.5 m/s (75 Million m/s) versus an Eve top speed of ~30,000 m/s (wormhole effects, overheated MWD, etc..)

ST ships could target an Eve ship from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, zip in, fire, and zip out before Eve ships could even start locking. Never mind that ST ships can hit things at 50,000+ km versus Eve's 250 km max and thus would never have to get in range of an Eve ship in the first place.

ST ships can kite anything that Eve can bring to the party.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#206 - 2012-09-04 21:14:59 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Dunno if it was mentioned but eve warp speed is significantly faster than ST warp speeds. So eve ships could do what eve ships do best: run away.

Seeing as how combat takes place at sub-light speeds in Eve... ST ships normally stay below 25% of light speed in order to avoid relativity problems. So that's 74,948,114.5 m/s (75 Million m/s) versus an Eve top speed of ~30,000 m/s (wormhole effects, overheated MWD, etc..)

ST ships could target an Eve ship from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, zip in, fire, and zip out before Eve ships could even start locking. Never mind that ST ships can hit things at 50,000+ km versus Eve's 250 km max and thus would never have to get in range of an Eve ship in the first place.

ST ships can kite anything that Eve can bring to the party.



Yet, they never do this...

They always go into a fight at blaster range at slow speeds.
Alara IonStorm
#207 - 2012-09-04 21:19:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Yet, they never do this...

They always go into a fight at blaster range at slow speeds.

And that would change in 5 seconds when they realized Blasters can't fire that far.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2012-09-04 21:51:29 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Yet, they never do this...

They always go into a fight at blaster range at slow speeds.

And that would change in 5 seconds when they realized Blasters can't fire that far.


Got to give them a red herring to chase, make them focus on the Falcon Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#209 - 2012-09-05 07:09:52 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Dunno if it was mentioned but eve warp speed is significantly faster than ST warp speeds. So eve ships could do what eve ships do best: run away.

Seeing as how combat takes place at sub-light speeds in Eve... ST ships normally stay below 25% of light speed in order to avoid relativity problems. So that's 74,948,114.5 m/s (75 Million m/s) versus an Eve top speed of ~30,000 m/s (wormhole effects, overheated MWD, etc..)

ST ships could target an Eve ship from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away, zip in, fire, and zip out before Eve ships could even start locking. Never mind that ST ships can hit things at 50,000+ km versus Eve's 250 km max and thus would never have to get in range of an Eve ship in the first place.

ST ships can kite anything that Eve can bring to the party.


If you are picking EvE performance due to game mechanics, then pick also ST performance due to cinematic mechanics. All the ST combat scenes show us big ships cruising at 1000 kph, exchanging broadsides with disruptor and phaser cannons.

I still remember a BoP in the movie Next generations missing the Enterprise D which was accelerating from a dead stop, TWICE!! and they were at 800 m more or less.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2012-09-05 14:41:22 UTC
Star Trek ships move at the speed of plot. (I've just watched "Where No One Has Gone Before," which makes TNG's handwavium obvious.) Certainly people have attempted to beanplate the heck out of ST to convert vague ideas like impulse and warp into physical quantities, but unlike Reynolds, McCarthy, or Niven there's not much there other than the strictly qualitative plot devices that something is either slower or faster than the Enterprise, and round-trip messages across the known galaxy require days of travel. As SF goes, Trek is so soft, it squishes.

Eve ships move at the speed of game balance, which isn't much better.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#211 - 2012-09-05 19:13:33 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Yet, they never do this...

They always go into a fight at blaster range at slow speeds.

And that would change in 5 seconds when they realized Blasters can't fire that far.


Got to give them a red herring to chase, make them focus on the Falcon Big smile


We are forever mocked. Sad
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2012-09-06 03:33:56 UTC
based on the speed thing, we could just apply webs to them. they might normally have better speed than we do, but with webs, something like a daredevil could probably keep up long enough for the big guns to land and tear it to shreds.
Alara IonStorm
#213 - 2012-09-06 05:03:20 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
based on the speed thing, we could just apply webs to them. they might normally have better speed than we do, but with webs, something like a daredevil could probably keep up long enough for the big guns to land and tear it to shreds.

Voyager has a maximum impulse speed of 200,000 kilometers per second.

So yeah a 90% Web Daredevil should do the trick.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2012-09-06 16:24:44 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
based on the speed thing, we could just apply webs to them. they might normally have better speed than we do, but with webs, something like a daredevil could probably keep up long enough for the big guns to land and tear it to shreds.

Voyager has a maximum impulse speed of 200,000 kilometers per second.

So yeah a 90% Web Daredevil should do the trick.

yeah, so they could catch it as it starts to run away and keep up easily for long enough to get the big guns on it.
not to mention that after 2-3 battles, the eve universe would notice that running away at sublight seems to be the favoured disengagement method and would start fitting or restructuring to directly combat that.
Sitreba Oonchevkii
#215 - 2012-09-06 19:25:44 UTC
simply get a the jovian mothership that wiped out the amarr in the Jove war. i can't possibly see them countering that Twisted

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.
Conan theBarbarian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#216 - 2012-09-06 22:38:36 UTC
Since this is a hypothetical debate, I will make a hypothetical argument. Since game mechanics were not an issue for Star Trek, lets assume that they are not an issue in EVE either. Now tell me, without game mechanics, how many weapons do you think Titans would be able to have? I'm fairly certain it would be on par with a federation fleet. Now as far as maneuvering goes....
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2012-09-06 22:41:22 UTC
Conan theBarbarian wrote:
Since this is a hypothetical debate, I will make a hypothetical argument. Since game mechanics were not an issue for Star Trek, lets assume that they are not an issue in EVE either. Now tell me, without game mechanics, how many weapons do you think Titans would be able to have? I'm fairly certain it would be on par with a federation fleet. Now as far as maneuvering goes....


Without game mechanics we just have to web the hell out of the star trek ships and as Solomon "23 years in the Caldari Navy" Burke put it, just put a brick on the accelerator Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2012-09-06 22:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: leviticus ander
ok, so I went and did more math.
I looked at the size of the lead railgun round, 150mm and multiplied that by the optimal stable length to diameter of 4.4 to get 66 CM long. since it's a railgun round it's a cylinder rather than bullet shaped so that makes the math a little easier.
now find the area of the round so 15* pi = 47.13CM² then multiply that by the length to get 3110CM³. now multiply that by the mass of iron (7.874/CM³) to get 24489.53 grams or 24.5KG. then to find the energy of this round, we'll calculate it with this mass and the speed of light (it's close enough to count) so we get (24.5/2)*300,000,000² (I used more accurate and precise numbers than this but this helps to write it). and from that we get 1,100,504,665,217,139,257 joules per round. and the base damage of iron is 5 damage so we can go with it being that amount of damage divided by 5 to get 220,100,933,043,427,851 joules per HP of damage done.

now that we have the "imaginary" numbers counted out, lets compare them to real numbers. I went and got the power of an explosion in jules to compare our damage against.
218,947,063,630,400,560 joules = 1 HP worth of damage
418,400,000,000 joules = 1 kiloton
418,400,000,000,000 joules = 1 megaton
418,400,000,000,000,000 joules = 1 gigaton

so looking at that, one point of damage is about equal to half a gigaton. meaning that even frigates are able to withstand the blast from several photon torpedoes.
Conan theBarbarian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-09-06 22:53:54 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
ok, so I went and did more math.
I looked at the size of the lead railgun round, 150mm and multiplied that by the optimal stable length to diameter of 4.4 to get 66 CM long. since it's a railgun round it's a cylinder rather than bullet shaped so that makes the math a little easier.
now find the area of the round so 15* pi = 47.13CM² then multiply that by the length to get 3110CM³. now multiply that by the mass of iron (7.874/CM³) to get 24489.53 grams or 24.5KG. then to find the energy of this round, we'll calculate it with this mass and the speed of light (it's close enough to count) so we get (24.5/2)*300,000,000² (I used more accurate and precise numbers than this but this helps to write it). and from that we get 1,100,504,665,217,139,257 joules per round. and the base damage of iron is 5 damage so we can go with it being that amount of damage divided by 5 to get 220,100,933,043,427,851 joules per HP of damage done.

now that we have the "imaginary" numbers counted out, lets compare them to real numbers. I went and got the power of an explosion in jules to compare our damage against.
218,947,063,630,400,560 joules = 1 HP worth of damage
418,400,000,000 joules = 1 kiloton
418,400,000,000,000 joules = 1 megaton
418,400,000,000,000,000 joules = 1 gigaton

so looking at that, one point of damage is about equal to half a gigaton. meaning that even frigates are able to withstand the blast from several photon torpedoes.


A Star Trek debate without long calculations. I new something was missing.
Alara IonStorm
#220 - 2012-09-06 22:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
leviticus ander wrote:

yeah, so they could catch it as it starts to run away and keep up easily for long enough to get the big guns on it.
not to mention that after 2-3 battles, the eve universe would notice that running away at sublight seems to be the favoured disengagement method and would start fitting or restructuring to directly combat that.

Pffft...

Hahahahahahahahahaha. That is funny.

Yeah web them down to 20000km a second... Long enough to, nope they're gone.

They can still hit you though.

Amarr might have a chance, here is the Enterprise dropping main shields to negotiate a surrender against a ship with dreaded laser weapons.