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My incursion experience
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#41 - 2012-02-08 01:22:12 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The elitism is a byproduct of competition.


That's the point where i disagree. Elitism is a byproduct of being a prick.
I am not one of the people looking for instant gratification. It's good that there is some high-end content that is only available after a certain time and investment in the game. That's not a reason to grow an attitude though. Running missions (and Incursion are pretty much just missions with beefier enemies) isn't actually difficult. The accomplishment lies in spending the time, the skillpoints amassed on your character. But not personal skills like that would be the case for let's say highend industrialists, traders, corp-/allyleaders or other types of characters that are heavily into metagaming. Invested time X is just a value that everyone can reach, even completely AFK. It's nothing that one can be proud of or that can be used to justify the kind of attitude that many incursioners displayed in the threads of the last weeks.


I was talking about the brand of Eliteism complained about in this thread, which is "You need this much pimp to ride," not claiming that incursions are difficult or risky content (they're not).

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.


And I agree with your well articulated rebuttal, so now I'm pretty sure I wasn't clear. My fault.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#42 - 2012-02-08 03:26:28 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The elitism is a byproduct of competition.


That's the point where i disagree. Elitism is a byproduct of being a prick.
I am not one of the people looking for instant gratification. It's good that there is some high-end content that is only available after a certain time and investment in the game. That's not a reason to grow an attitude though. Running missions (and Incursion are pretty much just missions with beefier enemies) isn't actually difficult. The accomplishment lies in spending the time, the skillpoints amassed on your character. But not personal skills like that would be the case for let's say highend industrialists, traders, corp-/allyleaders or other types of characters that are heavily into metagaming. Invested time X is just a value that everyone can reach, even completely AFK. It's nothing that one can be proud of or that can be used to justify the kind of attitude that many incursioners displayed in the threads of the last weeks.

Incursions can be difficult, depending on how you run them Big smile
BIGTEX123
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-02-14 03:40:20 UTC
Even though I disagree with the robot like efficiency that most of these FC's strive for you know what they say, internet spaceships ain't no joke.
Jonny Frost
RavenhoId
#44 - 2012-02-14 04:29:10 UTC
There is not enough incursion to go around and due to the way they were designed, ie. only the highest dps in the site getting paid its not people being pricks as so many people seem to believe.

If you wanna play ball, you gotta buy the bat. If your not willing to spend the isk or don't have the skills then you're not going to play.

Its not the community thats made it this way, its the design. Competition means people wanna win - simplies.
Kazzlin Freedomsbane
Raistlin Majere's Last Magic Missile
#45 - 2012-02-15 06:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazzlin Freedomsbane
RubyPorto wrote:
Roime wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Why is it some random stranger's job to give you unsolicited advice to help you compete with them?


Oh yes, the incursion bear **** attitude <3

It's not anyones job, it's the social aspect and sense of community.

If I was an FC looking to build a fleet I'd tell that Roime guy to slap on some navy magstabs and a faction web asap, instead of mutely spamming the "AF forming up, need more DPS" like a bot.

ffs even Dodixie local is more friendly



I haven't done an incursion in months.

1) Any advice recieved when you just post your fit would be unsolicited (which nobody gets to expect to receive ever)
2) Say you own a Coffeeshop; If someone were to come in and say "Hey, I'm opening a Coffee shop across the way, what's your secret for your incredible coffee?" Do you a) Help them put you out of business, or b) tell them to screw off?
3) What sense of community is there in a scrub group of random pick-me-up alts in it for the ISK?
4) If I were an FC, I'd be too busy looking at people's fits, checking them against blacklists, making sure the fleet's still going (when I did incursions I ran 11man fleets to allow us to keep going while looking for a replacement), etc, etc. THe FC doesn't have time to hold your hand like you want.

Finally, there's your attitude. We give you solid, helpful advice and you moan that it's not in the right tone. Or that you had to actually ask a question to recieve an answer.


2.) The OP doesnt want to own a coffee shop though, he's trying to work for one. And if the boss can take time to say no, there is no loss for the boss to say, no because your resume lacks dps. The OP wasn't asking for their FC alts names, the corps passwords... they were saying, "Ah you don't want me, no problem, why? Maybe I have it back in the dock to grab"
3.) If I show up with a pirate bs, I am a random... but there is no problem ever fleeting up for an incursion, I didn't understand #3. Again, the OP was just asking why they didn't want him, not for any secrets, and again the answer is one liner, "You're dps is lacking sir, and tank = no"

4.) And again, they already spent the time to read his fit to say no, so they aren't losing time... as they already read it to say no, they just had to add "Sorry man, get more dps and please don't spam incursion with that."

Lastly, don't forget Elitist has the word elite in it, but what it means is, a few ppl found out they seem bad ass at something simple, if they don't pass along the simple way of doing it to others, like a con-man.... it has nothing to do with elite skills.

The metagaming, the true hardcore traders, the large scale pvpers and corp leaders use skill, incursions and missions are just a matter of, you've been playing for this long, you're entitled to some larger missions.
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-02-15 10:48:49 UTC
Im kind of sad seeing EVE is going -> WoW. For those who don't understand the statement - the incursions are so crazily rewarding that a bigger and bigger part of the playerbase will want to do them, ending up in an exact match of WoW's endless "looking for group" system of:

"LNK ARCHIVE AND GEARSCOR OR /IGN0RE!!!11"

Note that this is not a comment against elitism. I would be the first one to explain to OP why he didn't get a spot. No, this is about the concept of making incursions such an appealing part of EVE (because of the crazy ISK) for many players and maybe moreso new ones.

In half a year - will half the the EVE playerbase be spamming "looking for fleet" ads, just to be competitable? There is already a kiddie game working like that you know... Is this the way EVE is heading?
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-02-15 15:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
RubyPorto wrote:
Beckie DeLey wrote:
I certainly never flew in an Incursion, but looking at the posts of your typical Incursion runner in the recent weeks, i don't really miss it. While the recent threads liked to play up on how much Incusions help with the community and forming up fleets for social interactions etc, most Incursionists just sound like elitist asshats to me. Woooo, what a "fun" "community" to "fleet up" and "interact" with.
4 months of skill training to even get started? Seriously?


In high end, high reward activities, sure.

The elitism is a byproduct of competition. In heavily competed systems, only the shiniest fleets get paid anything.


It takes under an hour to train the skills needed to be useful in a small gang/fleet and less than a week to train the skills needed to be a capable solo frig pilot (it will take you longer to travel to the fleet, and longer to figure out what buttons you actually need to press, respectively).

The time it takes to enter one specific activity in the game != the time it takes to start having fun.


that's not true, only the shiniest fleets that know what to do get paid anything. you can easily beat some of the FC's/fleets out there including and mostly goon alts. how do i know? i ran with both. even if they run 2x 5/1 basi Big smile
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-02-15 15:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Daphny Naarma wrote:
Im kind of sad seeing EVE is going -> WoW. For those who don't understand the statement - the incursions are so crazily rewarding that a bigger and bigger part of the playerbase will want to do them, ending up in an exact match of WoW's endless "looking for group" system of:

"LNK ARCHIVE AND GEARSCOR OR /IGN0RE!!!11"

Note that this is not a comment against elitism. I would be the first one to explain to OP why he didn't get a spot. No, this is about the concept of making incursions such an appealing part of EVE (because of the crazy ISK) for many players and maybe moreso new ones.

In half a year - will half the the EVE playerbase be spamming "looking for fleet" ads, just to be competitable? There is already a kiddie game working like that you know... Is this the way EVE is heading?


why? there are only a certain number of people that can make money out of them and it's not all about being pimped (being pimped makes you a target so it's about balance) it's mostly about not having slackers and people who know what to do, actually thinking and planning what to do if another fleet warps in, also being set up to do said tactics. little things as simple as webbing ships out of the contesting fleets optimal knowing all your fleet members can hit perfectly.
Geoscape
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-02-15 15:57:41 UTC
Back when i was new to the game i x'ed up with my trusty punisher.

Turns out that incursions are only for accessible for players with lots of money and skillpoints.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-02-15 15:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Geoscape wrote:
Back when i was new to the game i x'ed up with my trusty punisher.

Turns out that incursions are only for accessible for players with lots of money and skillpoints.


or people who put the effort in, it's not as if it takes a lifetime to train up for being usefull in incursions, you just have to take the ****** jobs and do well at them.


edit: ******* gamers today annoy me and pandering devs (no blizzard pun intended) to some extent. when i started playing games they were harsh, real harsh. people waa waaa waaaing about not being able to do incursions tomorrow.
Geoscape
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-02-15 16:18:57 UTC
fuer0n wrote:

or people who put the effort in, it's not as if it takes a lifetime to train up for being usefull in incursions, you just have to take the ****** jobs and do well at them.

Sitting on your ass waiting for the skills to train up is among the most effortless activities i can think of.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-02-15 16:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Geoscape wrote:
fuer0n wrote:

or people who put the effort in, it's not as if it takes a lifetime to train up for being usefull in incursions, you just have to take the ****** jobs and do well at them.

Sitting on your ass waiting for the skills to train up is among the most effortless activities i can think of.


if this was wow would you expect to be in molten core in 2 weeks?

eve is eve and although i ******* hate some of the things that have gone on over the years and still to this day tbh it's good. go out there and do stuff while your waiting. theres a whole new "world" out there you know.

edit oh and some of them skills lvl 3 to lvl 5 have you looked at how much "power" you gain?
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#53 - 2012-02-15 17:08:28 UTC
ACESsiggy wrote:
Tesoni Daven wrote:
My advice? Get into a corp, keep skilling for T2 weapons, once you get them your odds of fleeting for incursions about quadrupels. Maybe practice mission running, or fly something smaller, like a BC, and get into exploration for a bit. See if you can't upgrade to a Navy Mega.


I do have t2 rails but not blasters. Played this game for on and off for a year running missions and thats about it. I try something new and it looks like I need to continue waiting for skills and EVE wonders why players don't hang on to this game (no pun intended). Tried doing exploration but same thing.. what ship are you flying lol

On the bright side, I feel im in a good corp with various events to do each week Smile

==================

I suggest you try the chat channell "The Ditanium Fleet" (an armour channel I'll refer to as TDF :)) you'll have trouble with the blaster fit for Vanguards but the Rail fit is good for assaults & HQs. first thing you should do is ask if an assault fleet is up. TDF is now focusing on assaults & HQ on weekends where you'll probably at least get an invite to the waitlists which can take usually at most an hour to go on grid.
There's a runor that the assaults and HQ's will get a buff to the payouts this summer to make them as profitable as Vangurds since they are more likely to kill a ship ( more risky )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#54 - 2012-02-15 17:40:14 UTC
Tyslas wrote:
Vanguards are for the shiny fleets. Why would an FC pick up your t1 hull and t1 guns when there's a pirate battleship doing twice the dps. If you want to get into a armour VG fleet you should be flying a legion. As someone said, you'll have better luck running assaults and hq sites. Not sure how often thers armor fleets up, but there's several channels based on shield assault and hq only fleets.

If you already have t2 rails, then cross over into a Sniper Rokh and you'll have no issue getting into fleets. If you want to fly Gallente you need to get into a Vindicator for VGs.


I sort of disagree that Vanguards are totally for the shiney fleets... if you get a significant jump on a NCO or NMC you can get them in an 'average' fleet. when there are 2-3 incursions up ( or on off hours) you can usually find a system that is not crowded. Last few weeks there was unusual crowding due to third parties killing of MOM sites quiker then farmers would like and people on top of that where especially scared to accept newbies for fear of them being griefers. I suggest you try BTL PUB for shields or TDF for armor fleets chats to stay clear of the griefers that are 'blacklisted'
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Daphny Naarma
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2012-02-15 18:13:40 UTC
fuer0n wrote:
...
why? there are only a certain number of people that can make money out of them and it's not all about being pimped (being pimped makes you a target so it's about balance) it's mostly about not having slackers and people who know what to do, actually thinking and planning what to do if another fleet warps in, also being set up to do said tactics. little things as simple as webbing ships out of the contesting fleets optimal knowing all your fleet members can hit perfectly.

The text had nothing in particular to do with anything you have written, but was rather a reflection on OPs situation and many of the replies on a conceptual level - realizing this thread could just as well have been written by a player from that 'other' game in a thread on one of the 'other' forums on about not being able to get a group to kill that... big thing... whatever it is which is the goal right now.

It struck me a bit, that's all, and had nothing to do with any details.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#56 - 2012-02-17 04:40:13 UTC
Daphny Naarma wrote:
Im kind of sad seeing EVE is going -> WoW. For those who don't understand the statement - the incursions are so crazily rewarding that a bigger and bigger part of the playerbase will want to do them, ending up in an exact match of WoW's endless "looking for group" system of:

"LNK ARCHIVE AND GEARSCOR OR /IGN0RE!!!11"

Note that this is not a comment against elitism. I would be the first one to explain to OP why he didn't get a spot. No, this is about the concept of making incursions such an appealing part of EVE (because of the crazy ISK) for many players and maybe moreso new ones.

In half a year - will half the the EVE playerbase be spamming "looking for fleet" ads, just to be competitable? There is already a kiddie game working like that you know... Is this the way EVE is heading?


Gearscore was an arbitrary number that told you nothing useful.

Asking for a ship fit is showing you the actual mods and setup used.


@OP. You're flying a Mega in a world of faction fit Vindicators. Also Shield fits are more popular (yes Shield vindis are AWESOME) due to better firepower potential.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-02-17 13:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Daphny Naarma wrote:
fuer0n wrote:
...
why? there are only a certain number of people that can make money out of them and it's not all about being pimped (being pimped makes you a target so it's about balance) it's mostly about not having slackers and people who know what to do, actually thinking and planning what to do if another fleet warps in, also being set up to do said tactics. little things as simple as webbing ships out of the contesting fleets optimal knowing all your fleet members can hit perfectly.

The text had nothing in particular to do with anything you have written, but was rather a reflection on OPs situation and many of the replies on a conceptual level - realizing this thread could just as well have been written by a player from that 'other' game in a thread on one of the 'other' forums on about not being able to get a group to kill that... big thing... whatever it is which is the goal right now.

It struck me a bit, that's all, and had nothing to do with any details.




why?



point is they can elitism all they like, just like in the other game as you call it. they are still just idiots who's candy can be taken off em (gank em or out contest em) unlike the other game where you cant really do a lot about it.

edit: and i do play wow sometimes, full collectors edition account so a blizzard fanboy in your book? quit yer whining and look at the bigger picture. actually go out there and do some incusrsions maybe? if you have and failed to make isk consider suggesting roam in the fleet. you might get to have fun. ^^
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-02-17 15:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Daphny Naarma wrote:
Im kind of sad seeing EVE is going -> WoW. For those who don't understand the statement - the incursions are so crazily rewarding that a bigger and bigger part of the playerbase will want to do them, ending up in an exact match of WoW's endless "looking for group" system of:

"LNK ARCHIVE AND GEARSCOR OR /IGN0RE!!!11"

Note that this is not a comment against elitism. I would be the first one to explain to OP why he didn't get a spot. No, this is about the concept of making incursions such an appealing part of EVE (because of the crazy ISK) for many players and maybe moreso new ones.

In half a year - will half the the EVE playerbase be spamming "looking for fleet" ads, just to be competitable? There is already a kiddie game working like that you know... Is this the way EVE is heading?


Gearscore was an arbitrary number that told you nothing useful.

Asking for a ship fit is showing you the actual mods and setup used.


@OP. You're flying a Mega in a world of faction fit Vindicators. Also Shield fits are more popular (yes Shield vindis are AWESOME) due to better firepower potential.



see, a non elitist wanker so chin up op.
Cfiloruz Xilocient
Not Quite So Sinister
Shadow Empire.
#59 - 2012-02-20 12:42:03 UTC
Flown few*hundred( incursions here and there. and as i started off i was in abaddon or sniper mega and it was all fine early days.

Then i got ass anded to me by a semi shiny fleet.

By the time i grew myself some more balls to compensate my absolute lack of isk after getting myself rather radient shiny machariel and got into shiny fleet i understood the picky picky by the shiny FC's.

nowadays i even see that some ships are more shiny than others and t2 fit machariels are often dumped fro faction fit machas.


But here's a pro tip.
Go for gallente incursions and try there.
There's a horde of amarrian and few caldari pilots in amarr space who would rather not fight the faction police due to they'r somewhat miserable standing with gallente.
and as i've heard they really are short of pilots there.
and i dont mean to sound patronising.. but they will need every ship that can theoretically survive incursions to do them.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-02-20 17:53:36 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
The elitism is a byproduct of competition.


That's the point where i disagree. Elitism is a byproduct of being a prick.
I am not one of the people looking for instant gratification. It's good that there is some high-end content that is only available after a certain time and investment in the game. That's not a reason to grow an attitude though. Running missions (and Incursion are pretty much just missions with beefier enemies) isn't actually difficult. The accomplishment lies in spending the time, the skillpoints amassed on your character. But not personal skills like that would be the case for let's say highend industrialists, traders, corp-/allyleaders or other types of characters that are heavily into metagaming. Invested time X is just a value that everyone can reach, even completely AFK. It's nothing that one can be proud of or that can be used to justify the kind of attitude that many incursioners displayed in the threads of the last weeks.


http://mlfw.info/f/1197/

♞