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New players and Null-sec:
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Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#61 - 2012-02-05 07:43:27 UTC
Also snipe.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#62 - 2012-02-05 07:56:48 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
Perhaps if nullsec isn't attracting new players, rather than asking CCP to do something, or shouting that the rest of the game should be nerfed into the ground so that your playstyle is the only viable option, you should try to see how others might see you?

My area of nullsec is not suffering from this "problem" at all. Those who don't want to come to nullsec can rot in empire forever as far as most of us care. Roll

That's the crap I hate debunking over and over. That and the "nullsec corps force you to join CTA's every day with alarm clock ops" whine.

Also Big smile at the 24/7 forum trolls claiming they can't play in a corp because they have lives and have better things to do than EVE.
Revan Slahka
Splintered Dreams
Brave Collective
#63 - 2012-02-05 08:04:36 UTC
Hi sec is boreing imo, if there was a place for industrialist to build ships.... id be there. Sadly dont got the man power in my corp to do sonething like that.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2012-02-05 08:08:09 UTC
Fedeye Kin wrote:
I would love to get involved in null It was the dominion trailer that got me into the game, but from the outside the large sov holding blocs seem like an impenetrable wall where u need a gizillion SP and a vouch from someone who you have donated a kidney to get into.

Your account is a year old man, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is more of a social barrier then an SP one.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#65 - 2012-02-05 08:52:01 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
Perhaps if nullsec isn't attracting new players, rather than asking CCP to do something, or shouting that the rest of the game should be nerfed into the ground so that your playstyle is the only viable option, you should try to see how others might see you?

My area of nullsec is not suffering from this "problem" at all. Those who don't want to come to nullsec can rot in empire forever as far as most of us care. Roll

In which case my comment was not directed at you. And yet you felt the need to confront it...
Ferrenc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-02-05 09:04:45 UTC
most noobs hear endlessly how they'll be raped to death in null, and granted any noob who wandered into null by himself probably would be, but all the people who complain no one comes to null are the same people who keep telling noobs its a deathfest, when in reality if you're part of an alliance in null its usually safer than low sec (with the exception of bubbles) the point is to the people who want noobs to come to null, stop telling them its guaranteed death and maybe they'll go
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#67 - 2012-02-05 09:06:12 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
Plutonian wrote:
Perhaps if nullsec isn't attracting new players, rather than asking CCP to do something, or shouting that the rest of the game should be nerfed into the ground so that your playstyle is the only viable option, you should try to see how others might see you?

My area of nullsec is not suffering from this "problem" at all. Those who don't want to come to nullsec can rot in empire forever as far as most of us care. Roll

In which case my comment was not directed at you. And yet you felt the need to confront it...

Due to your "perhaps if nullsec isn't attracting new players" claim. Try again.
Plutonian
Intransigent
#68 - 2012-02-05 09:41:38 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
My area of nullsec is not suffering from this "problem" at all. Those who don't want to come to nullsec can rot in empire forever as far as most of us care.


*sigh* Not trying to butt heads with you here.

The fact exists that non-nullsec playstyles tend to be bashed by nullsec posters on the forums. I believe one nullsec CSM even wrote 'as if lowsec is even relevant' when questioned about lowsec problems. This tends to create a general dislike towards nullsec within the non-nullsec population. (Which I generally don't agree with. I used to play in null, and still have friends that do... it is no less valid a playstyle than my own).

What I was suggesting with my last paragraph is that a more moderated tone towards other playstyles might achieve better results (and it was directed specifically towards the original post). I highly doubt I will get many Empire residents to come out to lowsec and try PvP by insulting what they do. Instead I try to show them how much fun it is. How cheap it can be done.

My post was not constructed as a personal insult to you.

Magic Missiles
#69 - 2012-02-05 09:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Magic Missiles
Cass Lie wrote:
Fun fact: Test and the Goons, which both have (significant) representation in CSM6, are heavily newbie oriented alliances. Also Mittani&co. were actively pushing to improving the new player experience, though it still has plenty of room for improvement. Mittani is even fixated on this weird idea of revamping rookie ships so that they would look cooler from the get go.

If only someone could devise a mechanic which would make the newbies realize that joining a decent corp and losing that risk aversion are good things.


Fun fact: both of those alliances do not actually recruit newbies outside their own closed communities. No matter what they do for their newbs, it translates into absolutely nothing for newbs in general. Tell me about the open-recruitment alliance that has their rookie programs, because as far as i've seen, they don't exist.

I see nullsec players go on and on about how newbies are just risk averse and cowering in empire. But they forget the hurdles that need jumping. The hurdles are quite a bit higher now and without the various safty nets installed by the likes of goonswarm, newbies don't stand a chance.

I have nothing against the private communities who provide so well for their newbies. It just vexes me how little that has actually rubbed off on the rest of nullsec. It seems everyone else is content to just recycle the same player base ad nauseum while newb players looking to break in must survive essentially on their own.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#70 - 2012-02-05 10:02:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So tell the ingame demographics. About 80% of logged in characters would be seen in highsec any random day. Mission runners used to be a whopping 18% of all players (in a game with about a hundred professions).

Nullsec is an organized, vocal minority, but players who never have been to nullsec are the single largest demographical group.
…except that those are not the demographics.

It's only 66% of the characters, and there's a fair chance that half of that (or maybe slightly less) are actually alts of the non-highsec third. That would mean the supposed “single largest demographical group” consists of maybe 30-40% of the players…


Hey, I also got into CCP Diagoras' last numbers. And you know? I think that most nullsec dwellers are actually alts of hisec dwellers, so maybe there's not 20% of nullsec dwellers but only 10% and the rest are hisec's alts.

What doesn't changes is that, in any given moment, two thirds of the players are in hisec... which is far and way of getting even one sixth of CCP's love.

If your game "is aaall aboooout nuuullseeec" and two friggin thirds of players are in hisec, something is really wrong with either your game or your views on how and why people plays it.

Item plus, four of each five players ARE NOT in nullsec... but then that measly 20% gets 100% of the CSM.

I can tell when things go well, and, this is not going well.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-02-05 10:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Magic Missiles wrote:

I have nothing against the private communities who provide so well for their newbies. It just vexes me how little that has actually rubbed off on the rest of nullsec. It seems everyone else is content to just recycle the same player base ad nauseum while newb players looking to break in must survive essentially on their own.

I had no probs surviving on my own in a frigate, i guess I must be some sort of super elite badass
I just chatted up a month old player who was in Yulai Fed.
Stop moping.
Magic Missiles
#72 - 2012-02-05 10:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Magic Missiles
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Magic Missiles wrote:

I have nothing against the private communities who provide so well for their newbies. It just vexes me how little that has actually rubbed off on the rest of nullsec. It seems everyone else is content to just recycle the same player base ad nauseum while newb players looking to break in must survive essentially on their own.

I had no probs surviving on my own in a frigate, i guess I must be some sort of super elite badass
I just chatted up a month old player who was in Yulai Fed.
Stop moping.


I know you intended that as a response to my post you quoted, but i'm not seeing the connection. I'm not moping, as I am actually living and learning the hard way how to live in nullsec. I am simply making the observation that one group of nullsecers seems to have done an amazing job of growing their new player base while others are ignoring it.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#73 - 2012-02-05 10:21:53 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:
My area of nullsec is not suffering from this "problem" at all. Those who don't want to come to nullsec can rot in empire forever as far as most of us care.


*sigh* Not trying to butt heads with you here.

The fact exists that non-nullsec playstyles tend to be bashed by nullsec posters on the forums. I believe one nullsec CSM even wrote 'as if lowsec is even relevant' when questioned about lowsec problems. This tends to create a general dislike towards nullsec within the non-nullsec population. (Which I generally don't agree with. I used to play in null, and still have friends that do... it is no less valid a playstyle than my own).

What I was suggesting with my last paragraph is that a more moderated tone towards other playstyles might achieve better results (and it was directed specifically towards the original post). I highly doubt I will get many Empire residents to come out to lowsec and try PvP by insulting what they do. Instead I try to show them how much fun it is. How cheap it can be done.

My post was not constructed as a personal insult to you.


Fair enough. At this time of night the "wah nullsec, wah goons, wah csm" crowd is out in full force, so I default to dealing with that idiocy. Ugh

In general, not aimed at you either since you seem to get it Big smile, nullsec annoyance is at empire players who think they should enjoy both their concord-protected carebear land AND enjoy the resources, incomes and privileges that those of us in nullsec fought so hard to get. Hence the incursions bit. Why in the world should they be so lucrative in empire for absolutely no reason or risk?

Anyway that's a bit off topic and there's a big thread about that already, but meh.

Also, Magic Missile, if you're no troll, there is a nice big selection of corps of the type you are looking for in the CFC that are not goons. Cue "wah nullsec, wah goons, wah csm."
Magic Missiles
#74 - 2012-02-05 10:24:41 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:

Also, Magic Missile, if you're no troll, there is a nice big selection of corps of the type you are looking for in the CFC that are not goons. Cue "wah nullsec, wah goons, wah csm."


I am not aware of the CFC you're talking about, but I would very much appreciate a list of corps worth contacting.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#75 - 2012-02-05 10:28:00 UTC
Magic Missiles wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:

Also, Magic Missile, if you're no troll, there is a nice big selection of corps of the type you are looking for in the CFC that are not goons. Cue "wah nullsec, wah goons, wah csm."


I am not aware of the CFC you're talking about, but I would very much appreciate a list of corps worth contacting.

CFC is Goons and Goon allies. Check your mail.
Magic Missiles
#76 - 2012-02-05 10:29:09 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
Magic Missiles wrote:
KrakizBad wrote:

Also, Magic Missile, if you're no troll, there is a nice big selection of corps of the type you are looking for in the CFC that are not goons. Cue "wah nullsec, wah goons, wah csm."


I am not aware of the CFC you're talking about, but I would very much appreciate a list of corps worth contacting.

CFC is Goons and Goon allies. Check your mail.


Ah, that puts a lot of things in context, will do.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#77 - 2012-02-05 23:32:07 UTC
Themick Mccoy wrote:
Dark, I read your post and I agree with some of your points. Sov bills are too damn high in general. The other points you make about a new corp/alliance making headway into Sov space can be fix by politics. Yes politics. There are Sov alliances out there that are I am sure a bunch of dastardly bastards who want no one else to hold Sov, but there are also a fair share that I am sure are open to diplomatic approach. No one can control all of 0.0.

That is why coalitions are formed. That is why alliances allow others into their space. I admitted earlier that I am new, but I have read about how in the past such-and-such alliance got kicked out of their space and this-or-that group shared space with them until they got back up on their feet.

I think in the end there are quite a few things wrong with null that need to be changed, and they were brought up in the winter minutes. Sov bills are retardedly(sic) expensive. Tech moons either need a rebalance or need to be tied in with Sov ownership in my opinion. However, these things can be worked around with perseverance, and determination.


in responce: the issue that i currently see with diplomatic solutions is that as the corp/alliance wanting to move next to that powerblock, you have to do all the giving, wether it be renting, being on call to defend local "BOSS" assets, and so on...

if you agree to this total submission then you imedietly become a target for the rest of NULL as they will most definatly find it easyer to take out your corner compared to your "BOSS". being a small corner asset of a "coalition" just means that they know where the hostile fleet is, currently removing you from the face of sed systems, they will most probably not see a need to actuly protect you as in the end of the day you are there to be a buffer.

there is also the issue that most blocks will consided you and your corp/alliance to have some hidden agena "working for the enemy ECT. this is why most Blocks have the NBSI rule as standard.


Feligast wrote:


People don't want to use perserverance or determination.. they want things handed to them, like it is in hisec. Many people are so scared of even losing a frigate, they would never dream of going into lowsec for fear of evil pirates.

Goonfleet was formed long after the major players of nullsec were firmly established (Band of Brothers in particular), and we were regarded as hilarious children that would soon be put in our place by the mighty BoB. As you said, we were kicked (well, sov-billed) out of our space more than once, but we were taken in by a great group of people who called themselves Tau Ceti Federation. They let us crash on their couch in Deklein, get back on our feet, and train up into ships bigger than rifters. A couple years later, and you see what has happened, for good or bad, whatever your perspective.

Bottom line, make friends. Friends are the most important resource in Eve, and very, VERY few people, corps, or alliances can go far without them.


you sir,compleatly missunderstand my personal and alliance veue on SOV warfare and the sometimes strained diplomatic ties that go hand in hand with it.

we in General TSOs alliance dont want all of this given to us. we are not mission runners, incursion grinders, miners, WHs or PVP shy. yes we have members that are some of these things, but we will happily fight a loosing battle, even if only in defyance of our agressors. we live out on LOW sec and have done for 3-4 years now.

we just dont see the point in spending out time having to make isk to pay some moon goo gorgend SOV block just so that they secide not to kill us today..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-02-05 23:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
What doesn't changes is that, in any given moment, two thirds of the players are in hisec... which is far and way of getting even one sixth of CCP's love.
…except that it changes things quite drastically since it means a full two thirds of players are also not in highsec. People need to stop thinking that characters translate into players and stop citing the character count as any indication of player distribution (much like how they need to stop thinking that “living in nullsec ≡ can only think about nullsec” for the CSM reps).

Quote:
If your game "is aaall aboooout nuuullseeec" and two friggin thirds of players are in hisec
…except that, most likely, two thirds of players are not “in highsec.”

Quote:
Item plus, four of each five players ARE NOT in nullsec... but then that measly 20% gets 100% of the CSM.
…except that it's most likely not 20% and that the CSM representation isn't nearly as clear-cut as the non-voters would like to believe. The CSM has far more lowsec representation than the numbers would suggest, for instance.

The only thing we do know is that 70% of those who voted are represented on the CSM. Why is it that your sig is missing that rather important fact?
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-02-06 00:04:11 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
The problem there is not with the game mechanics. The problem is the extremely large number of bears that constantly proclaim that living in null sec is impossible and the only way to play the game is to grind the same 10 minutes of PVE content over and over again in the safety net of high sec.


0.0 pvp is pretty similar

the same blob alpha strike tactics used day in day out.

as for pve
the same anoms run day in day out......... it doesnt matter where u are pve is still a boring grind.

alot more people would go to 0.0 if it were for all the douchbag alliance leaders & fc's ya have to put up with out there.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-02-06 06:19:29 UTC
I think of it rather more as 'is there a reason to be there?' when it comes to null. At my SP level and for what I like to do in Eve- I don't really need to be in null. I don't moon mine or claim space. I could join an alliance as a form of 'employment' I guess, but that's rather more like a job than I want a video game to be like- usually to make some high SP player rich.

Just to PvP- null is mostly empty other than blobs in my experience. Lost count of the 20+ jump null roams that turned up nothing more than abandoned bubbles or BC blobs.

Low sec means working the D Scan and probably fighting away from gates, but I see much more traffic in low sec, and since PvP tends to be a hobby for many players- they just dip into low sec on roams when they play at PvP.
Now, unless I am doing something like a gate camp (no gate guns shooting my frigate) or a bubble camp (I do love a Stealth Bomber) I never need cross into null really.
If I want null sec, I'll find a worm hole and find better rewards, and better PvP most of the time too.

I don't miss life in null sec at all.