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New players and Null-sec:

Author
Plutonian
Intransigent
#41 - 2012-02-04 22:51:40 UTC
Themick Mccoy wrote:
It isn't about tearing down the powerhouses, or re-inventing the wheel with me. I think after all this discussion it does come down to what was said on the first page:

KrakizBad wrote:

There are a plethora of good solo spaceships games for the anti-social. EVE isn't one of them.

Also the anti-null sentiment is en vogue on the forums, don't take it personally.



I must disagree.

1.) There is not a plethora of good solo spaceship games these days... unless you've managed to travel back in time to the late 80's or early 90's.

2.) Solo does not mean anti-social. (I get so tied of debunking this particular myth.)

3.) Even if there were a 'plethora of solo spaceship games' none of them can feature an AI which is capable of human deviousness. Solo is about personal challenge.

4.) Solo PvP exists within Eve; I do it all the damn time.

5.) It is not that anti-null sentiment is en vogue, it is a reaction to the scorn and vitrol which the common nullsec resident pours upon everyone else in the game. The typical knee-jerk reaction of any non-null resident is to despise nullsec as a whole.

As a solo PvP-oriented lowsec resident, I try to do my part to encourage new players. If they want to fight, I fight them, give them advice, loot (either theirs or mine), my fit, and sometimes large sums of isk and tell them to come back and kill my ship. If they're ratting and avoiding me, I leave them alone. If they're ratting and don't know what they're doing, I'll generally grab 'em, then let them go, and give them pointers on how they should avoid me or other people like me. I'm not alone in this... I'm generally surprised by how many people (especially the solo fighters) are out there doing the same thing.

I've found it's far better to assist the new player than heap scorn on them because they've not chosen the same playstyle I have.

Perhaps if nullsec isn't attracting new players, rather than asking CCP to do something, or shouting that the rest of the game should be nerfed into the ground so that your playstyle is the only viable option, you should try to see how others might see you?

Ai Shun
#42 - 2012-02-04 23:09:00 UTC
So, to the null-sec dwellers. How would you go about it?

A bit of background. I live in primarily low / high sec areas around Lonetrek. I spend my time either hauling or in an industrial capacity, but once my Transport / Freighter skills are done I'm starting on combat related training.

I do however find that running courier missions or building up research skills and so forth get a bit - not monotonous or tedious - I still enjoy them. But I am looking for something a bit different, a bit more interactive.

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?
The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-02-04 23:10:57 UTC
Themick Mccoy wrote:
It isn't about tearing down the powerhouses, or re-inventing the wheel with me. I think after all this discussion it does come down to what was said on the first page:

KrakizBad wrote:

There are a plethora of good solo spaceships games for the anti-social. EVE isn't one of them.

Also the anti-null sentiment is en vogue on the forums, don't take it personally.


There is too much emphasis on you MUST be part of a social group to be able to play Eve. In my experience so far, the more social a group claims they are the less likely they will be. I could get exactly the same "social interaction" just by having TS open and shooting the breeze with mates. Whether I am in highsec/lowsec/nullsec or a WH is and always has been irrelevant.

It's mostly down to the one simple fact that when I go to nullsec, I am a nobody and unless I can sing badly, swear like a navvy or produce heaps of porn links I may as well not be there. (This is a generalisation incidentally.)

In highsec, in a corp or otherwise, I am my own boss, I decide what I want to do and politics is limited to smacktalking Miillia in Rens.

There may well be incentives to go to null, (fleet fights/good ratting etc.) but they get very tedious and rather pointless after a while and the reasons to stay in null - particularly if you cannot progress beyond a grunt for whatever reason - get less and less the longer you stay.

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-02-04 23:13:42 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?

I hear met worst has an all-Australian corp called The Drongo Club. Only got one member but it's a start Roll

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

Ai Shun
#45 - 2012-02-04 23:18:21 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?

I hear met worst has an all-Australian corp called The Drongo Club. Only got one member but it's a start Roll


Thank you for the nigh on useless idea. There is no way I would even consider joining a corp with Met Worst in it.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-02-04 23:25:27 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
So, to the null-sec dwellers. How would you go about it?

A bit of background. I live in primarily low / high sec areas around Lonetrek. I spend my time either hauling or in an industrial capacity, but once my Transport / Freighter skills are done I'm starting on combat related training.

I do however find that running courier missions or building up research skills and so forth get a bit - not monotonous or tedious - I still enjoy them. But I am looking for something a bit different, a bit more interactive.

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?

Due to the nature of jump-capable ships, hauling things in industrials and freighters is a difficult trade to ply in null, and harder to sell towards a recruiter as something they need.
If you could make the leap into a jump freighter, that would go a long way as those things are vital.
If not, you could join a small corp part of a new alliance trying to make its way in null, but for that you'll need at least decent BC skills. I don't know any Australian/NZ specific corps offhand, but I'm sure they're out there and would like to add to their number.
Ai Shun
#47 - 2012-02-04 23:32:06 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
So, to the null-sec dwellers. How would you go about it?

A bit of background. I live in primarily low / high sec areas around Lonetrek. I spend my time either hauling or in an industrial capacity, but once my Transport / Freighter skills are done I'm starting on combat related training.

I do however find that running courier missions or building up research skills and so forth get a bit - not monotonous or tedious - I still enjoy them. But I am looking for something a bit different, a bit more interactive.

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?

Due to the nature of jump-capable ships, hauling things in industrials and freighters is a difficult trade to ply in null, and harder to sell towards a recruiter as something they need.
If you could make the leap into a jump freighter, that would go a long way as those things are vital.
If not, you could join a small corp part of a new alliance trying to make its way in null, but for that you'll need at least decent BC skills. I don't know any Australian/NZ specific corps offhand, but I'm sure they're out there and would like to add to their number.


Rats. Lost my post. Forget the details then - thank you Nicolo.
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-02-04 23:34:50 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
So, to the null-sec dwellers. How would you go about it?

A bit of background. I live in primarily low / high sec areas around Lonetrek. I spend my time either hauling or in an industrial capacity, but once my Transport / Freighter skills are done I'm starting on combat related training.

I do however find that running courier missions or building up research skills and so forth get a bit - not monotonous or tedious - I still enjoy them. But I am looking for something a bit different, a bit more interactive.

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?

Due to the nature of jump-capable ships, hauling things in industrials and freighters is a difficult trade to ply in null, and harder to sell towards a recruiter as something they need.
If you could make the leap into a jump freighter, that would go a long way as those things are vital.
If not, you could join a small corp part of a new alliance trying to make its way in null, but for that you'll need at least decent BC skills. I don't know any Australian/NZ specific corps offhand, but I'm sure they're out there and would like to add to their number.


Are blockade runners used much in null sec hauling?
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#49 - 2012-02-04 23:36:37 UTC
Janis Ezra wrote:
Cass Lie wrote:
Fun fact: Test and the Goons, which both have (significant) representation in CSM6, are heavily newbie oriented alliances.


Fun fact: They are heavy oriented in scamming newbies. Good luck with joining goons or test without getting scammed, or spending endless time on a stupid forum to get invited.
Dont spread false informations in a thread about newbies and null.



Fun fact: I see and participate in goonswarm fleets alot. When they take newbies out they often give them particular amounts of attention, especially such despicable (in teh public eyes, and not in reality) DBRB who will make sure that new guys who fly in his fleets come out of them often tens if not hundreds of millions if isk richer.

Anyone who believes in all the crap about teh CFC (such as the bile spewed by riverini/snotshat) really actually deserves to be on the wrong end of our guns.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-02-04 23:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Jacob Stiller wrote:

Are blockade runners used much in null sec hauling?

h0nk h0nk deep space truckerrrr
In my experience, hauling in null goes like this
If it's part of a coordinated move like a deployment, you contract all the ships you want to move to a director who will move it to the destination point in jump freighters. Despite the sketchiness of what I described, it's the most effecitve way of performing deployments and regular alliance-wide market seeding (load up everything pre-made in hisec, jump it down and sell it at 10% markup)

If you want to move something somewhat valuable and it's too big to move in a frigate, but you don't have access to a carrier or JF, the blockade runner is the go to ship since it has the best chance of surviving a gatecamp and is quick to boot. Additionally, the blockade runner is WH capable, unlike a JF or carrier.

If it's a low-value shipment like PI goods or low-end mins you need to move from a refinery or something just use a T1 bestower and watch intel. Risking 6 mil in a dangerprone ship to move 4-5 mil worth of jump in one trip makes more sense to me anyway then risking 90 mil to move 4-5 mil across multiple trips.

Despite the name, DSTs seem to be useful only in highsec for avoiding suicide ganks.

Freighters are usually only used in alliance-wide logistics **** like anchoring an i-hub or station, with the help of titan bridges, and gather dust in the spaces in between.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2012-02-05 00:02:04 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So tell the ingame demographics. About 80% of logged in characters would be seen in highsec any random day. Mission runners used to be a whopping 18% of all players (in a game with about a hundred professions).

Nullsec is an organized, vocal minority, but players who never have been to nullsec are the single largest demographical group.
…except that those are not the demographics.

It's only 66% of the characters, and there's a fair chance that half of that (or maybe slightly less) are actually alts of the non-highsec third. That would mean the supposed “single largest demographical group” consists of maybe 30-40% of the players…
The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-02-05 01:03:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
So tell the ingame demographics. About 80% of logged in characters would be seen in highsec any random day. Mission runners used to be a whopping 18% of all players (in a game with about a hundred professions).

Nullsec is an organized, vocal minority, but players who never have been to nullsec are the single largest demographical group.
…except that those are not the demographics.

It's only 66% of the characters, and there's a fair chance that half of that (or maybe slightly less) are actually alts of the non-highsec third. That would mean the supposed “single largest demographical group” consists of maybe 30-40% of the players…

If the character is in Highsec he is included in the demographic. Whether he is an alt of a Nullseccer is 1) not pertinent and 2) not definitive.

Because that player could be a Highseccer with a Nullsec char. Does this now mean that some of Nullsec must then form the numbers for Highsec? So there's not as many in Nullsec as we think either?

Add WH/Lowsec variability...... Hmmm.

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

Honnete Du Decimer
#53 - 2012-02-05 01:42:35 UTC
Themick Mccoy wrote:

Quote:
.High sec large alliance = (No worry CTA. No worry politic. No worry ego rubbish null sec.)



**** high-sec wardecing mechanics,
repetitive game-play,


Also scamming is far more prevalent in high-sec, as are idiotic egomaniacs. In an earlier post you listed roaming low-sec and wormhole raids, but since these are not high-sec activities, they can not be listed as a high-sec positive. Incursions also happen in null, so there goes that bit also. You state; "Fini," I, on the other hand, disagree wholeheartedly.


War dec shield.

Low sec roam and WH raid = easy access when want PVP.

High sec perfect casual play. High sec is place play EVE. Null sec is place work EVE.
Too big headache.

PMS [:p]

The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-02-05 01:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
Themick Mccoy wrote:

Quote:
.High sec large alliance = (No worry CTA. No worry politic. No worry ego rubbish null sec.)



**** high-sec wardecing mechanics,
repetitive game-play,


Also scamming is far more prevalent in high-sec, as are idiotic egomaniacs. In an earlier post you listed roaming low-sec and wormhole raids, but since these are not high-sec activities, they can not be listed as a high-sec positive. Incursions also happen in null, so there goes that bit also. You state; "Fini," I, on the other hand, disagree wholeheartedly.


War dec shield.

Low sec roam and WH raid = easy access when want PVP.

High sec perfect casual play. High sec is place play EVE. Null sec is place work EVE.
Too big headache.

Your use of the French language is so fluent.

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

Honnete Du Decimer
#55 - 2012-02-05 02:04:04 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Your use of the French language is so fluent.


Pardon?

PMS [:p]

Ai Shun
#56 - 2012-02-05 03:17:51 UTC
Honnete Du Decimer wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Your use of the French language is so fluent.
Pardon?


Just ignore him. He is being rude because of the way you write English.

The Apostle wrote:
If the character is in Highsec he is included in the demographic. Whether he is an alt of a Nullseccer is 1) not pertinent and 2) not definitive.

Because that player could be a Highseccer with a Nullsec char. Does this now mean that some of Nullsec must then form the numbers for Highsec? So there's not as many in Nullsec as we think either?

Add WH/Lowsec variability...... Hmmm.


The characters can go either way; thus any attempt to use the 66% figure as a representation of high-sec players is ludicrous. It is too fluid, because they're all in New Eden. That and the activities they partake in are the only important things. And that makes your idea of high/null/low sec candidates even more laughable.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#57 - 2012-02-05 04:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ai Shun wrote:

How would you go about joining a null-sec corporation and are there any established NZ / Australian timezone null-sec corporations?


Yep. Mine.

Toss me an EvEmail at your leisure.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Fedeye Kin
Aridian Tactical Cartography
#58 - 2012-02-05 05:44:13 UTC
I would love to get involved in null It was the dominion trailer that got me into the game, but from the outside the large sov holding blocs seem like an impenetrable wall where u need a gizillion SP and a vouch from someone who you have donated a kidney to get into.
Valei Khurelem
#59 - 2012-02-05 07:24:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Quote:
There are a plethora of good solo spaceships games for the anti-social. EVE isn't one of them.


People solo precisely because they are social beings and have things to do outside of EVE, with solo/singleplayer games you can hop in, play the game for a few minutes, save, then hop back out again when you need to I don't know, eat or to do work, or talk to people. A player who likely spends several hours a day playing a game making just to gank one person or get that extra ISK and lecturing me on being anti-social for playing this game casually is the very height of irony.

If I log into EVE and try to form a mining op or corporation or do anything involving a group I am essentially committing myself to half a days worth of boredom when nowadays I have better things to do than **** away my time on a game made up of useless time sinks and grinding.

Excuse me for playing this game as a sandbox and not catering to your style of play.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#60 - 2012-02-05 07:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zirse
Valei Khurelem wrote:
Quote:
There are a plethora of good solo spaceships games for the anti-social. EVE isn't one of them.


People solo precisely because they are social beings and have things to do outside of EVE, with solo/singleplayer games you can hop in, play the game for a few minutes, save, then hop back out again when you need to I don't know, eat or to do work, or talk to people. A player who likely spends several hours a day playing a game making just to gank one person or get that extra ISK and lecturing me on being anti-social for playing this game casually is the very height of irony.

If I log into EVE and try to form a mining op or corporation or do anything involving a group I am essentially committing myself to half a days worth of boredom when nowadays I have better things to do than **** away my time on a game made up of useless time sinks and grinding.

Excuse me for playing this game as a sandbox and not catering to your style of play.



So why do you pay a subscription to an MMO then? Surely you could extract more enjoyment out of a single player game? EVE is a bad game as we all like to joke, the only attraction is player interaction.


Now, I would like to see more pick up and play stuff in the game as long as its in a sandbox spirit but as the game stands right now one just has to question your judgement.