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Don't be an apathetic highsec moron!

First post
Author
Sicex
#41 - 2012-02-04 10:46:38 UTC
One thing I have learned from living in the US is that there is no such thing as a 'democracy' but you always have to keep voting one step towards your ideal because you will never get what you want in one election cycle but through a progression of multiple voting cycles.
The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-02-04 10:55:49 UTC
Karadion wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Karadion, go read my posts - in total and in context - within the topic you are obviously referring to.

Dilution is EXACTLY what I'm proposing AND I state EXACTLY why - IN DETAIL.

If you disagree that's fine. I'm not bashing your individual sensibilities - but - if you're a Goon, defending Goons and remain a Goon then nothing you say has ANY credibility regardless of whether it's wrong or right.

THAT's the price YOU pay for being so frigging naive. If you want to debate me with inane and petty differences then you better get used to me playing you like a yapping dog.

Now SIT!
I know and I've already done the math in regards to your proposal based off the numbers from the CSM6 votes. That's why I'm pointing out the flaw of your concepts because of the fact of voter participating is pretty dismal in high-sec. It's not the null-sec / wh-space player's fault that high-sec pubbies are dumb and like to play with themselves. It's your preoperative to become a community organizer and get them to vote. It works for President Obama, so why can't it work for you?

My individual sensibilities? Well it's nice to know that you think I'm supposedly offended by this when you're having an aneurysm every post.

I'm naive? I'm not the one proposing dilution. Now that's a naive concept. Now go wail in the corner because I took your candy cane.

When's DT?

No, seriously, Highsec indifference to the CSM? Cause and Effect. Been discussed to hell and back. If you haven't taken a step back and even considered WHY then more fool you.

Aneurysm. lolz. Man. I haven't had as much fun today as I'm having right now. I can't get upset - I'm insane - besides, I have nothing to lose.

1) If you're right then highsec bombs out again and the CSM spends another year pretending they're important and we all go "duh".

2) If I'm right then I get to say. HAHAHAHAHAHA, told yaz.

Take a gander at my 2 main topics. I have deliberately placed myself on the "system does not work" and "system does work" fence - why - to prove the point - you CAN'T have it both ways and YOU, amongst many others, are proving the voracity of that very point.

And the dilution I proposed is very valid - my sig is a TLDR. Read THAT!

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-02-04 11:00:31 UTC
Sicex wrote:
One thing I have learned from living in the US is that there is no such thing as a 'democracy' but you always have to keep voting one step towards your ideal because you will never get what you want in one election cycle but through a progression of multiple voting cycles.

Do you agree with me?

Doesn't matter really because you are 100% correct and I totally agree with you.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu (604 BC - 531 BC)

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-02-04 11:05:16 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
When's DT?

No, seriously, Highsec indifference to the CSM? Cause and Effect. Been discussed to hell and back. If you haven't taken a step back and even considered WHY then more fool you.

Aneurysm. lolz. Man. I haven't had as much fun today as I'm having right now. I can't get upset - I'm insane - besides, I have nothing to lose.

1) If you're right then highsec bombs out again and the CSM spends another year pretending they're important and we all go "duh".

2) If I'm right then I get to say. HAHAHAHAHAHA, told yaz.

Take a gander at my 2 main topics. I have deliberately placed myself on the "system does not work" and "system does work" fence - why - to prove the point - you CAN'T have it both ways and YOU, amongst many others, are proving the voracity of that very point.

And the dilution I proposed is very valid - my sig is a TLDR. Read THAT!

Your signature however isn't true which goes to show what kind of person you are. Afterall, you're probably the kind of guy that laughs maniacally at oxymorons when it isn't really that funny. You see. The last election around, I wanted to vote for Mittani and Solo Drakban created an awesome tool that allowed us to vote for the candidates we wanted to choose directly when we went to visit our forum. But hey, I won't let that deter you, child.

Your dilution idea will always come up over and over again by you because it's you. An uncreative person with a lack of good ideas. You have to remember. The CSM has to consider your ideas in order to pitch it to CCP because it's extremely doubtful they'll listen to you directly here. "Dumb idea, dumb kid, next!"
Kestrix
Gallente Federation Private Members Club.
Mortis Primus
#45 - 2012-02-04 11:08:58 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.


Erm... explain to me please the differnce bettween say the Goons voting for thier Alliance candidates and Hi sec voting for it's candidates? Two differnt player bases only interested in thier aspect of the game. Both by your logic doomed to perish in their self-interest.

Sicex
#46 - 2012-02-04 11:11:15 UTC
In an ideal world of EVE there are no "two different player bases" but rather a homogenous mix of alts knowledgeable in all facets of EVE.

This statement is almost a troll, I think... but I think it's also partly true.
The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-02-04 11:15:55 UTC
Karadion wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
When's DT?

No, seriously, Highsec indifference to the CSM? Cause and Effect. Been discussed to hell and back. If you haven't taken a step back and even considered WHY then more fool you.

Aneurysm. lolz. Man. I haven't had as much fun today as I'm having right now. I can't get upset - I'm insane - besides, I have nothing to lose.

1) If you're right then highsec bombs out again and the CSM spends another year pretending they're important and we all go "duh".

2) If I'm right then I get to say. HAHAHAHAHAHA, told yaz.

Take a gander at my 2 main topics. I have deliberately placed myself on the "system does not work" and "system does work" fence - why - to prove the point - you CAN'T have it both ways and YOU, amongst many others, are proving the voracity of that very point.

And the dilution I proposed is very valid - my sig is a TLDR. Read THAT!

Your signature however isn't true which goes to show what kind of person you are. Afterall, you're probably the kind of guy that laughs maniacally at oxymorons when it isn't really that funny. You see. The last election around, I wanted to vote for Mittani and Solo Drakban created an awesome tool that allowed us to vote for the candidates we wanted to choose directly when we went to visit our forum. But hey, I won't let that deter you, child.

Your dilution idea will always come up over and over again by you because it's you. An uncreative person with a lack of good ideas. You have to remember. The CSM has to consider your ideas in order to pitch it to CCP because it's extremely doubtful they'll listen to you directly here. "Dumb idea, dumb kid, next!"

You know for all this toing and froing I support my habit of being totally and unashamedly insane by looking at numbers and facts.

(I heard the loonies are really good at numbers and facts).

Fact: CCP KNOW there is a problem with voting in the CSM. They seek to change it. Will it actually work or is "transferable votes" a a way to prop up the numbers to make it look better until they can come up with something else?

Numbers: Don't know the exact number but FUCKALL voted for the last CSM. This INCLUDES lowsec/nullsec residents. You tell me how wrong I REALLY am?


lolled at this one: "CSM has to consider your ideas in order to pitch it to CCP because it's extremely doubtful they'll listen to you directly here."

Once again - neither CCP NOR the CSM are my target audience. CCP are too smart and the CSM is too up themselves. I'm appealing to - wait for it - rabble rousers...... (See what I did there?).

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

The Apostle
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-02-04 11:38:46 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.


Erm... explain to me please the differnce bettween say the Goons voting for thier Alliance candidates and Hi sec voting for it's candidates? Two differnt player bases only interested in thier aspect of the game. Both by your logic doomed to perish in their self-interest.


tbh, I read this question and thought "Haven't you been READING!!!".... I went outside for a smoke, kicked the cat and made another drink. While I was doing this it made me think on how to describe (for want of a better word) my motivation.

Alliances bloc vote from a sense of loyalty to their alliance. No question. This is admirable and for truth, must be commended - as naive as it may be sometimes to an outsider.

One area I am absolutely adamant about, and very concerned about, is voter apathy in highsec. There HAS to be a reason. Laziness and self-interest MIGHT be a reason but by and large, Eve players are pretty smart so most of this declaration is trolling and being silly IMO.

So I set about looking at suggesting THE PLACE as something to be loyal to. Not a person. Not an alliance. A PLACE.

If Nullseccers are "truly" Nullseccers they'll do their absolute to get their best candidate in - for - guess what - THEIR PLACE in space. Goons don't vote for Red.Legion because Red.Legion don't represent THEIR SPACE. Think about this.

SO, strangely enough, I'm a moron for suggesting Highsec do the same - by engaging Highsec punters with A PLACE. "The alliance" cameraderie is simply not possible and this is well known, even if refuted for whatever reason.

I say bring it. THE PLACE.

What YOU call YOUR PLACE is totally your call and I do NOT seek to change that much about the CSM selection process except to make it about THE PERSON IN THE PLACE - not THE PERSON WHEREVER.

It's actually a pretty simple concept. Some are reading far too much into it.

Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for alliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest.

Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-02-04 12:18:22 UTC
but i am nihhilistic jaded phlegmatic .. ??
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#50 - 2012-02-04 14:01:42 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Embrace democracy young man. The Apostle commands you. Dammit.


One thing I have learned from living in the UK is that their is no such thing as 'democracy' I don't vote in real life and I won't vote anymore here ether.


Well, England is an Oligarchy so I am not surprised.

They tried this tactic on the USA and you got The American Revolution.

They waited until 1913, which led to recession, WW1 & WW2, the great depression and so on and so forth.

Not being political, just historical.

This space for rent.

Honnete Du Decimer
#51 - 2012-02-04 14:30:59 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Thread #3 where The Apostle cries about the CSM. Can CCP please revoke thread creation priviledges for The Apostle?


= Me Goon. We top. CCP must censor thing anyone say against. Roll

PMS [:p]

Boxxy Angel Babee
Suicide noobs
#52 - 2012-02-04 14:32:19 UTC
"I have solved this political dilemma in a very direct way: I don't vote. On Election Day, I stay home. I firmly believe that if you vote, you have no right to complain. Now, some people like to twist that around. They say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain,' but where's the logic in that? If you vote, and you elect dishonest, incompetent politicians, and they get into office and screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You voted them in. You caused the problem. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote -- who did not even leave the house on Election Day -- am in no way responsible for that these politicians have done and have every right to complain about the mess that you created."

~ George Carlin

I agree.

Podstar!

Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-02-04 15:40:35 UTC
Karadion wrote:
At first I thought Trebor was a nutcase because of the fact he's a big anime fan, names his killer robots after anime characters, etc. But I got over that and Trebor does not do a bad job at all as the guy who keeps the minutes including pushing back against CCP over the failed concept such as WiS.

Goons being nice to me? In my EVE? Twisted

Though to correct some minor errors: while I founded one of the companies that kickstarted the Anime boom in the US, I'm not an anime fan -- I enjoy anime, but not in significant preference to other types of films.

And none of the combat robots I've built were named after anime characters, although the most successful one has a name that should be dear to the heart of any true Goon -- Totally Offensive.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Large Collidable Object
morons.
#54 - 2012-02-04 17:59:27 UTC
The Apostle wrote:


So don't be a MORON ...
.
.
.
.
Who are you?




Nothing wrong with being a moron.

Join morons. You know who you are!
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#55 - 2012-02-04 18:14:16 UTC
Why should I vote for somone that isnt going to represent me?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-02-04 18:22:39 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Why should I vote for somone that isnt going to represent me?


Furries, animu or your crayon doodling has no place in EVE.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-02-04 18:28:04 UTC
your portrait looks like a boner i popped in my black jogging pants yesterday, it even had a little mustard stain on them that looks like your beard. AMAZING!

I have more space likes than you. 

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2012-02-04 18:58:32 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Why should I vote for somone that isnt going to represent me?


You shouldn't. Vote for someone who will.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#59 - 2012-02-04 19:02:23 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Karadion wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

bla

bla and...... Hey, you did acknowledged my point which they do listen to money so that's why they will never back away from 1 vote for every paying account. Voter participation will always be optional in this game like most elections IRL.

wtf are you on about?

My "flailing system" will allow EVERY SINGLE PAYING ACCOUNT to ALSO have a single vote. I also said it's up for discussion but for some - a discussion is no more than chance for them to grandstand their obvious "vet" expertise.


Right now: Every Account gets one vote that is weighted equally.

Your System: Each vote is weighted differently based on which category you vote in. (Different Voter Participation Levels to get a seat + equal seats = differently weighted votes)


If you're worried about voter participation, campaign. Go Local to Local talking up your favored candidate, or just talking up voting in general.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Ai Shun
#60 - 2012-02-04 20:44:38 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
4) CCP does listen to money. 67.6% of players are in highsec. Less than 5% are Goons.


Completely wrong, unfortunately.

The official CCP numbers says that 66% of CHARACTERS are in high-sec. You know as well as I do that people plant trade alts in the market hubs; there are high-sec mining alts for low / null sec players as with high-sec hauler alts, trade alts, etc. Which means you cannot directly skew and say PLAYERS.

So no, not 67% of PLAYERS. It is a meaningless number and trying to quote it as players is about as stupid as suggesting we need to separate the game into groups for CONCORD security status.