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Time Travel is impossible right?

Author
Andre II
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-02-04 00:57:41 UTC
So i was watching the History Channels "The Universe" and they were talking about theoretical time travel. They said if you travel faster than like that you should be able to reverse time based off of the time dilation theory since time slows down when you are traveling at great velocities. I disagree, I believe time travel is impossible or maybe i just have a lack on information. I'm pretty young and never studied since intensely but I figured that it was impossible. If you travel faster than light that does not necessarily reverse time. I feel like people nowadays views time as a measure of distance. For we consider the speed of light is the primary law of time in the universe. Vision and time are different. Yes, light refracts off everything which allows vision, but that does not mean exceeding the speed of light will reverse events. I fail to see the correlation between exceeding light and reversing time itself. What we see is reflections of everything, the laptop I'm typing on is only able to be seen from light reflecting off of it. If I exceed light that does not mean It will reverse me typing this post. It will simply... Idk catch up and surpass the light particles which we interact with. Idk.. this is what i was thinking... Please enlighten me on your thoughts and correct me if I'm wrong, again I didn't study anything or conduct research this was just my thoughts based off of some random information i remembered.

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-02-04 01:02:46 UTC
Time travel can't exist because the concept is stupid (even Star Trek epsisodes involving it were stupid, so anything that has it is stupid). Saw a thing on a show that looked pretty sciency on Discovery that had an astronaut that went on like a 5 year mission at light speed and came back to a weird planet that looked different. Something about time going by slower for people going lightish speed so the human race made itself go away in the time he was gone and the continents were all different.

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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#3 - 2012-02-04 01:37:01 UTC
Basic rule of physics: don't try to understand relativistic or atomic-scale situations based on our large and slow human-scale world. Things just don't work the same, and you're always going to get the wrong answer.

Also, the math on FTL = time travel is indisputable. Unfortunately it's equally indisputable that we'll never be able to travel faster than the speed of light, so it will remain a theoretical concept.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-02-04 01:45:01 UTC
I'm going to listen to the asian avatar... they know these things

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

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VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-02-04 01:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
I've seen a few neat articles like this one involving The Grandfather Paradox where attempting to play with time begins to skew probability. It implies that if you did find a way that technically 'could' let you travel back in time, the universe would never actually allow it to happen. Something terrible would happen to the people attempting to travel, the machine might break down, or never reach it's destination.

Things could get downright cartoonish or seem like the project was cursed.
One way or another your chance of success would be zero.

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W1rlW1nd
WirlWind
#6 - 2012-02-04 02:08:31 UTC
Andre II wrote:
So i was watching the History Channels "The Universe" and they were talking about theoretical time travel. They said if you travel faster than like that you should be able to reverse time based off of the time dilation theory since time slows down when you are traveling at great velocities. I disagree, I believe time travel is impossible or maybe i just have a lack on information. I'm pretty young and never studied since intensely but I figured that it was impossible. If you travel faster than light that does not necessarily reverse time. I feel like people nowadays views time as a measure of distance. For we consider the speed of light is the primary law of time in the universe. Vision and time are different. Yes, light refracts off everything which allows vision, but that does not mean exceeding the speed of light will reverse events. I fail to see the correlation between exceeding light and reversing time itself. What we see is reflections of everything, the laptop I'm typing on is only able to be seen from light reflecting off of it. If I exceed light that does not mean It will reverse me typing this post. It will simply... Idk catch up and surpass the light particles which we interact with. Idk.. this is what i was thinking... Please enlighten me on your thoughts and correct me if I'm wrong, again I didn't study anything or conduct research this was just my thoughts based off of some random information i remembered.



Well, in simple terms I guess, consider that it has nothing to do with light 'particles' at all-- so the way you are thinking of it is wrong, it has more to do with gravity and speed.

Jumping ahead-- passage of time changes due to how fast you are going, this is already proven fact. You can send two perfectly synchronized clocks going at different speeds-- and when they come back the clocks will have measured time at different rates.

All this is explained by a consequence of Einstein's theory of General Relativity, and you can calculate this adjustment to keep your clocks in sync if for some reason you had to travel at thousands of miles per hour every day.

If you still have trouble believeing this consider GPS. If you ever use GPS in your cel phone, in your car, whatever, then you are an automatic believer, because "the GPS system works right?" -- and the entire GPS satelite system in orbit has their atomic clocks programmed to adjust for time differences caused by speed and relativity.

Jumping way ahead-- The idea that 'maybe' you can go backwards in time if you go faster than the speed of light, is an interesting offshoot of the fact that relative speed can 'slow down' time-- but DON'T WORRY we will never be able to prove going back in time:)

because. . . general relativity also says that it is IMPOSSIBLE for 'us' to go faster than the speed of light [maybe some particles, but not people] since as an object approaches light speed, it will also increase in mass to INFINITY. So any space ship with conventional engines attempting to go faster than the speed of light would need an INFINITY amount of fuel to get to that speed, which is impossible.

So, in conventional terms, NO, going backwards in time by going faster than the speed of light is NOT possible, mainly because it is not possible to go faster than the speed of light lol:) The rest is just fun to argue about, "what if you could?"

Note that other ideas to go faster than light, are tricks to get around general relativity. . . for example, star trek warp speed is not actually making you go faster than light. . . warp speed makes your ship STAND STILL while the fabric of space moves. . . then you get out of the warp bubble and wow- the end effect is like you went faster than the speed of light but really you didn't, you were just cheating physics by bending space:)

ON THE OTHER HAND

There may be other ways to go back in time, by using different techniques. . .

In theory, wormholes can connect different places and times, holes from one point to another in the fabric of space-time.
If you could make a wormhole, or find one already made, it might be able to get you to an earlier time. But how big would that hole be and if anything could travel through it without busting into a zillion subatomic particles is entirely fantasy at the moment. Again fun to argue about:)


Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#7 - 2012-02-04 02:17:32 UTC
W1rlW1nd wrote:
for example, star trek warp speed is not actually making you go faster than light. . . warp speed makes your ship STAND STILL while the fabric of space moves. . . then you get out of the warp bubble and wow- the end effect is like you went faster than the speed of light but really you didn't, you were just cheating physics by bending space:)


Slight correction: warp drive "works" by bending space to shorten the distance you have to travel. You actually move much slower than the speed of light, you just arrive at your distance faster than if you took the long way. The math on it (or at least a warp drive as imagined by physicists inspired by Star Trek) is pretty solid and doesn't break any laws of physics.

Of course the slight problem with ever building one is that bending space like that requires energy on the scale of "convert the entire mass of the universe into energy".
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-02-04 02:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
My Theory...





Not many people realize this, but Einstein's relativity states that not only does velocity effect the "speed in which a clock ticks" but so does the force of gravity in which said clock exists in. Both of these things are in fact witnessed effects in the GPS satellite system (as was partially mentioned). People then assume that this is speed and gravity "altering time" but... that in fact could be just an assumption.

Why you ask?
Well... what ticks the clock?


Cesium decay occur roughly 10 billion times per second at a very stable frequency provided by nature, that is an "Atomic Clock" and that is what is ultimately measuring this "change in time". So, we are not truly 100% sure that speed and gravity effects time at all... what is only certain is that speed and gravity effect particle decay and decay rates, because that is how we measure time most accurately. In truth we are not able to measure anything called "time" at all, we can ONLY measure decay rate. Speed and gravity affect decay rate and so science tells you that it also effects time, but that may not be true at all.


There may be no time.
Or... time may exist independent of atomic decay rate which could hypothetically be affected by some, as of yet, unknown quality of gravity and inertia (or of space-time itself)




Just food for consideration.

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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#9 - 2012-02-04 06:54:37 UTC
It's possible, but only to the limits of the Couchy Horizon.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-02-04 06:58:31 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
W1rlW1nd wrote:
for example, star trek warp speed is not actually making you go faster than light. . . warp speed makes your ship STAND STILL while the fabric of space moves. . . then you get out of the warp bubble and wow- the end effect is like you went faster than the speed of light but really you didn't, you were just cheating physics by bending space:)


Slight correction: warp drive "works" by bending space to shorten the distance you have to travel. You actually move much slower than the speed of light, you just arrive at your distance faster than if you took the long way. The math on it (or at least a warp drive as imagined by physicists inspired by Star Trek) is pretty solid and doesn't break any laws of physics.

Of course the slight problem with ever building one is that bending space like that requires energy on the scale of "convert the entire mass of the universe into energy".


That's what we call dividing by 0 Blink

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

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AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#11 - 2012-02-04 11:16:31 UTC
Andre II wrote:
So i was watching the History Channels "The Universe" and they were talking about theoretical time travel. They said if you travel faster than like that you should be able to reverse time based off of the time dilation theory since time slows down when you are traveling at great velocities. I disagree, I believe time travel is impossible or maybe i just have a lack on information. I'm pretty young and never studied since intensely but I figured that it was impossible. If you travel faster than light that does not necessarily reverse time. I feel like people nowadays views time as a measure of distance. For we consider the speed of light is the primary law of time in the universe. Vision and time are different. Yes, light refracts off everything which allows vision, but that does not mean exceeding the speed of light will reverse events. I fail to see the correlation between exceeding light and reversing time itself. What we see is reflections of everything, the laptop I'm typing on is only able to be seen from light reflecting off of it. If I exceed light that does not mean It will reverse me typing this post. It will simply... Idk catch up and surpass the light particles which we interact with. Idk.. this is what i was thinking... Please enlighten me on your thoughts and correct me if I'm wrong, again I didn't study anything or conduct research this was just my thoughts based off of some random information i remembered.


True, but only because no one knows what gravity is.

If you understand gravity, and are able to alter its effects, you can then travel at many times the speed of light without time dilation.

Once this becomes reality, then you can start playing on the chalk-board for working out whether time travel is possible, until then you have every bit of maths telling you it's impossible.

It's like trying to pick a rental car before you know which airport you're landing at - no point.

It's also a little bit like posting a thread without approaching the rules of syntax, grammar, punctuation and layout. This may not be a thesis, but please break your text out...just a little bit.

Like this.

AK

This space for rent.

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-02-04 12:12:08 UTC
if there's something that I've learned about physics is, once you start to mess around with quantum physics, your headaches increase exponentially.

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stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-02-04 23:39:19 UTC
As previously noted, traveling forward in time is done everyday.

The only "practical" theoretical way of traveling back in time that I've heard involved a big gravity field and some twisty geometry so that light traveling around the edge of the field arrived before the light that traveled directly across the field. Or something to that effect.

Also, neutrinos.

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Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-02-05 01:49:06 UTC
Sir, I'm from the Chronology Protection Agency. I'm afraid you will have to come with me.
Arcosian
Arcosian Heavy Industries Corp Holding
#15 - 2012-02-05 06:06:47 UTC
As many other people have stated time travel is possible as the GPS system has to be corrected everyday since the satellites travel a few milliseconds into the future and if left uncorrected the system would give bogus information. This is due to General Relativity.

Time travel is possible by moving very fast or by being in a very strong gravitational field. Going a decent fraction the speed of light will give a significant time dilation allowing the people on the spacecraft to go years into the future. This method is very impractical as it will require an enormous amount of fuel to accelerate the craft since it's mass will increase with increasing velocity. And you would need a path light-years long with nothing and I mean not even a grain of sand in the path of the spacecraft as hitting it at relativistic speeds would instantly obliterate the spacecraft. So some form of shielding would have to be developed.

For the gravitational time travel you would need a black hole. You would have to orbit it very near the event horizon which will require a lot of fuel along with posing a great risk to the crew. Being close in the gravitational field will allow the crew to time travel into the future much like "light-speed" time travel.

Wormholes are another way to time travel but the energy required to make one large enough for a ship to enter would be on the magnitude of a star so it isn't likely to happen naturally or artificially by any means we can think of. Physics may solve that problem in the future but who knows for sure.

FTL is a different story since you aren't violating the speed of light you just bend the physics. We have equations for a warp drive right now (Alcubierre drive) but we have no clue how to compress or expand the fabric of space so it's a long way off. Another problem is the inside of the warp bubble would be hotter than the surface of the sun so again some kind of shield or ultra high SPF sunblock will be needed.Blink

The problem with time travel though is compared to everyone else you would be travelling "back" in time. Just imagine traveling 1000 years into the future but only 1 year has passed on the spacecraft. The Earth would be a lot different when you got back if it even still existed. It's kind of the same as when your grandparents got their first computer or cell phone. They have no clue what it does and how to work it but for younger people it's no problem. You and everything you own would be considered an antique.

There is a good sci-fi novel called the Forever War that talks all about this. Basically without too many spoilers the humans are at war with an alien species and in the beginning they pose not threat but after traveling for a few years aboard the ship at light speed time has dilated so much that the human ship is almost killed the next time they encounter the aliens as actually hundreds of years have passed between their last encounter and the humans' ship is now obsolete.

As far as travelling back in time it's theoretically impossible unless you consider parallel universes or travel faster than light (which is impossible without bending the rules of physics). Travelling back in time would also cause the overall entropy of the universe to decrease which can't happen unless you provide energy to the whole universe...good luck with that one.
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2012-02-05 06:32:06 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
W1rlW1nd wrote:
for example, star trek warp speed is not actually making you go faster than light. . . warp speed makes your ship STAND STILL while the fabric of space moves. . . then you get out of the warp bubble and wow- the end effect is like you went faster than the speed of light but really you didn't, you were just cheating physics by bending space:)

Slight correction: warp drive "works" by bending space to shorten the distance you have to travel. You actually move much slower than the speed of light, you just arrive at your distance faster than if you took the long way. The math on it (or at least a warp drive as imagined by physicists inspired by Star Trek) is pretty solid and doesn't break any laws of physics.

Yes but in Star Trek the standard Warp Drive in the show does not work that way.
Memory Alpha Warp Drive Page wrote:
This was accomplished by generating warp fields to form a subspace bubble that enveloped the starship, distorting the local spacetime continuum and moving the starship at velocities that exceeded the speed of light. These velocities were referred to as warp factors.

The type of Faster then Light Travel your speaking of does actually make an appearance though in Voyager.
Memory Alpha Coaxial Warp Drive wrote:
A coaxial warp drive was a propulsion system hypothesized by Starfleet engineers in the 24th century, with the theoretic capability of folding the fabric of space, allowing a ship to travel instantaneously across extremely large distances.

It appears in one episode of Voyager slated to be superior to regular Warp Travel but gets destroyed before it can be used.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-02-05 06:38:19 UTC
Memory Alpha Coaxial Warp Drive wrote:
A coaxial warp drive was a propulsion system hypothesized by Starfleet engineers in the 24th century, with the theoretic capability of folding the fabric of space, allowing a ship to travel instantaneously across extremely large distances.


Didn't they try that in Event Horizon? Didn't work out too well for them P

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

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Alara IonStorm
#18 - 2012-02-05 06:51:02 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Memory Alpha Coaxial Warp Drive wrote:
A coaxial warp drive was a propulsion system hypothesized by Starfleet engineers in the 24th century, with the theoretic capability of folding the fabric of space, allowing a ship to travel instantaneously across extremely large distances.

Didn't they try that in Event Horizon? Didn't work out too well for them P

Yes but that movie is entirely unrealistic.

We would have sent a Monkey through first to check and make sure we weren't Warping through Hell.

That or a Puppy, point is we hate cute furry little animals.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-02-05 07:03:14 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Memory Alpha Coaxial Warp Drive wrote:
A coaxial warp drive was a propulsion system hypothesized by Starfleet engineers in the 24th century, with the theoretic capability of folding the fabric of space, allowing a ship to travel instantaneously across extremely large distances.

Didn't they try that in Event Horizon? Didn't work out too well for them P

Yes but that movie is entirely unrealistic.

We would have sent a Monkey through first to check and make sure we weren't Warping through Hell.

That or a Puppy, point is we hate cute furry little animals.


Or a pony... teach the things in hell about the magic of friendship

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Dowla Daupor
Deltole Deltole Deltole
#20 - 2012-02-05 07:48:05 UTC
We're traveling through time right now.

Also, 'you' in the Descartes sense are the embodiment of perception, there are many ways to alter your perception of time and therefor you travel though it at a faster or slower rate. On the same token you have memories and you can perceive events in the past 'you' have just traveled back in time. When you dream or are near death you perceive events in another dimension or an alternate reality. You see, we already have all of these things.
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