Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How exactly would you argue that point? Merely stating it, is not an argument.

I've already explained why it's bad gameplay, and that there's no game lore or real life examples to counter balance that fact. So unless you can refute my earlier arguments on the matter with reasoned arguments of your own, there is very good reason to change the status quo.

* There's no good game lore reasons for having Self Destruct as it exists in EVE, from a in character point of view it makes no sense that someone would blow up their own ship when there's no means of the enemy capturing it and that blowing it up has no impact on their chances of survival or harm inflicted on enemy ships attacking them.

* While there's real life and fictional accounts of Self Destructing (or it's equivalent) a ship, none that I'm aware of relate to the context it's used in EVE.

* Players are using Self Destruct to mask their losses and deny the victor record of their victory. While this may seem trivial to an outsider, it's done precisely because it does have value to all involved, more so in many cases than the actual value of ISK involved. This is not good gameplay.

* Self Destructing a Cap ship in a losing fight is a player avoiding consequences that everyone else is subject to, and doing so by utilizing some of the most powerful ships in the game. Ships that are in part balanced by their high costs, a consequence of which losing them is a big hit on a corps battle record. So long as KMs and stats are part of EVE this is bad gameplay.

* Denying Loot (equipment) as a reason for Self Destruct..There's some historical and fictional backing for this, but it relates mostly to ship capture which isn't possible in EVE atm. In terms of gameplay it's a way of saying you shouldn't profit from PvP or piracy, which kind of needs it's own topic. However, I would say to victor goes the spoils, and piracy and PvP for profit could use a buff in EVE of epic proportions. So if anything Self Destruct should result in no difference in drops normal destruction.

Now tell me what benefits to good gameplay Self Destruct provides in EVE?

Couldnt of said it any better

Popping in here to agree with the OP.
I like that it gives someone the option of denying the loot from the wreck, but i dont like that i just spent 15 mins planning an op to kill someone being stupid with their capital and i dont get recognition for it.

Just a couple of days ago we ganked a fleet of 7 dreads in a C5, we pinned down 3 before they could get away, popped two and the third SD'd literally a volley away from popping. I dont mind being denied the loot, thats tactical, but using it to pretend you didnt do something stupid is total bull.

On a similar note, Id like to see everyone involved in a kill get a copy of the mail. We killed some AAACitizens who were (again) being dumb with a carrier. The pilot thought itd be a good idea to jettison an interdiction nullified proteus in hopes of getting away, only he didnt know you cant climb into a locked ship. Naturally we shot it as well, but he stuck a fighter on it, getting the last blow and because he was being a sore loser, refused to post the mail.

As has been stated before, while the fact that the asset has been destroyed is valid, thats more of a factor in Null. Asset destruction isnt as important in W-space when you wont be connected to them in 24 hours. Its much more focused on the fight itself. What did we kill, how, were we outnumbered, how were our risk/reward ratios, victories/losses ratios. Its fast paced, hit hard and fast and gtfo. The killmails are the only record of success as we cant claim their system as a trophy, rat in the belts they used to mine, and drink quafe while tipping the exotic dancers in their stations. The only spoils we can claim is the mail, as usually its such a fast op we have to shoot the wrecks before we go cause theres no time to loot them.

of course they keep, why should they not??
If you dont have to kill me faster, I would SD too.

stop complaining, its all fine with that.

A ship, destroyed by your hand or the pilot's....this will blow you mind away....

Absolutely zero ******* effect on game play.

Yes, thats right. ZERO effect. Outside of a shift of isk around to replace it, nothing happens to the pilot with a destroyed ship, nothing happens to you, and the real person profiting is the one with a market sell order.

You want to attach some type of personal shame, as if a loss means something. Guess what, you can have no KB at all, blow up a ship....and repeat it just for the the fun of it while loosing a hundred ships for just 1 fight. ZERO ******* EFFECT! There is zero hidden meaning to life a self destruction that you are trying to justify, the guy is willing to lose his shp to **** you off because it doesn't bother him it just bother's you.


Oh, so now your a game developer. Someone inform CCP, we got a guy impersonating a Dev/GM and that is a bannable offense.

Oh wait....see what you said there.

Where exactly does it state "bad gameplay" in the EULA? Bad game play, by your defination is something you don't like. You don't like self destruction. Guess what, EVE being what it is; tl,dr consiting of Scamming, Theft, Ganking when someone isn't interested in a fight, Harrassment (Hulk miners and Hulkaggeddon, in reality it targets a specific individual type not a particular individual , but its a grey area ), ...**** its called Sandbox and what you can do with it. Its bad gameplay to invite someone into your corp then gank their T3 for lulz, its bad gameplay to steal nearly $20 USD in the form of a contract that someone actually paid for expecting a transaction to be legit, its bad gameplay...oh wait see that is everyday "gameplay" that someone might not like but the other guy might enjoy it. Yeah, you have no soap box statement to back yourself up in the statement "Self destruct is bad gameplay" since there is no actual defination outside "Harrassing a particular individual for an extended length of time" and or Bots/Buying isk.

tl,dr Back on topic:
1. KM have nothing to do with actual game play, its ID10T: User Error content that puts too high of a value on a game score that FFS is more important to them that they Win! and then whine when they lose. Pro-tip: Watch a miner whine when they lose a hulk when high-sec is supposed to be "safe" so they should be immune to attack and you will tell them to HTFU since they can avoid it by being knowledgable on how to be safer themselves (not much different then you being knowledgable that you need more DPS in a short time span...<-- derp moment)

2. Plan better, do it faster, don't **** up, don't whine, accept your lumps when you get chumped, and move on. There are no rules of "fair play" in EVE so the best thing you can do is do it fast, hit them hard, and make damn sure you know you can do it. Failure only makes you do better next time and if it happens again...thats EVE where nothing is fair or easy.