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Seeing lot's of Dev activity here any chance we could get

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Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#21 - 2011-09-07 14:11:16 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
Lens Thirring wrote:
This is an interesting number.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature. Ugh


People that don't lose ships constantly (ie carebears) don't need/use that feature. The numbers are kinda telling about what folks are doing in game.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#22 - 2011-09-07 14:21:51 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.




Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for
CCP Prism X
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2011-09-07 14:21:53 UTC
Jovan Geldon wrote:
Only ~310k characters have at least 1 fitting. That isn't "interesting", at least not in the way you're implying it to be.


This is 100% correct. Sorry for not being crystal clear on that.

CCP Prism X

Programmer on Team Gridlock & Expert Ranter
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-09-07 14:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Gorki Andropov wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.




Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.

Zagam wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
If the fittings would be local, the dB usage would be pretty much 0 bytes / 1000 fittings.

But if the fittings were local, and your comp decides to go on vacation, or you use more than one computer... you're doomed.


To be honest, I don't really understand personal fittings. I custom fit every ship I fly for the job at hand. I would only ever using a fitting if I was doing a job regularly, and often lost that ship. I can't see you having 50 jobs that you do on a regular basis, all of which involve losing the ships often enough to warrant having a fitting saved.

Seems to me we have a lot of people like Gorki here, who simply can't be ****** deleting fits. Now, that's not a problem, I don't bother either, but then, I don't use the fitting tool. To ***** about how you don't have enough slots just because you can't be bothered deleting some of your old fits or exporting obsolete ones seems childish.

50 fits is a lot. If its not enough, sure, raise it to 100. But grey here is a moron. Why trumpet local fittings for the sake of it being local, when it makes no difference whatsoever if you take a few seconds to delete stuff every now and then? I mean, I guess sure, have an option to do either, or or pick one, or whatever. Just don't waste developer time faffing around.

Its a bit of a non issue, is what I'm saying.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-09-07 14:38:48 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
Lens Thirring wrote:
This is an interesting number.

Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature. Ugh



GUILTY as charged. Oops
I forget it is there and constantly use EVE fitting tool to look for a config.
I really need to get with the times.




EVERYBODY KNOWS
Orion Guardian
#26 - 2011-09-07 14:39:29 UTC
I must second Tippia here,

I like the option of having soem fittings available globally so I can access them when on a different PC. But most of the time I sit at one PC so the limit is annoying (I had to delete some fittings when they were ported over)

The current workaround for me is: Exporting fittings to my HD and importing If I need them which makes the whole process quite slow.

For the "universal/global" fittings 50-100 seem by far enough IF we could still save fittings locally on our own PC without having to export them. Especially as I can understand the need to keep the database small ;)
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#27 - 2011-09-07 14:49:54 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
Yeah I'd have thought more people would use the "Save Fitting" feature. Ugh

I do have a few saved fits but I stopped using it on a regular basis after CCP accidently wiped all our saved fits a few years ago. Shocked

Fear God and Thread Nought
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-09-07 14:50:18 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Gorki Andropov wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.




Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.

Zagam wrote:
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
If the fittings would be local, the dB usage would be pretty much 0 bytes / 1000 fittings.

But if the fittings were local, and your comp decides to go on vacation, or you use more than one computer... you're doomed.


To be honest, I don't really understand personal fittings. I custom fit every ship I fly for the job at hand. I would only ever using a fitting if I was doing a job regularly, and often lost that ship. I can't see you having 50 jobs that you do on a regular basis, all of which involve losing the ships often enough to warrant having a fitting saved.

Seems to me we have a lot of people like Gorki here, who simply can't be ****** deleting fits. Now, that's not a problem, I don't bother either, but then, I don't use the fitting tool. To ***** about how you don't have enough slots just because you can't be bothered deleting some of your old fits or exporting obsolete ones seems childish.

50 fits is a lot. If its not enough, sure, raise it to 100. But grey here is a moron. Why trumpet local fittings for the sake of it being local, when it makes no difference whatsoever if you take a few seconds to delete stuff every now and then? I mean, I guess sure, have an option to do either, or or pick one, or whatever. Just don't waste developer time faffing around.

Its a bit of a non issue, is what I'm saying.

As an example of why 50 fits are sometimes not enough.. let me toss out a few fits currently sitting in my list (not the full fit, just the role/name)

Arty Maelstrom
AC maelstrom
Arty tempest
Tanky Typhoon
Mission Raven
Mission CNR
Ewar Scorp
Mission Drake
PvP Drake #1
PvP Drake #2
Arty 'cane
AC 'cane (nano)
AC 'cane (armor)
PvP Ferox
PvP Vaga
PvP Cynabal
PvP Ruppy
PvP Stabber
PvP Caracal #1
PvP Caracal #2 (trying a variation of #1)
Wolf #1
Wolf #2
Jaguar #1
Jaguar #2 (experiment)
Hound nullsec
Hound hisec
Manticore experiment

Thats just off the top of my head. I have several variations of some of these fittings, and also a few fittings others have sent me that I'm using as goals/reference for future planning.

50 seems like a lot, but really isn't that hard to fill up if you use it.
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#29 - 2011-09-07 14:52:15 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Gorki Andropov wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.




Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.




First of all, I am not your dude.


Secondly, if I want to have 5 dozen Celestis fittings, I should really be able to have that. Why can't I? The amount of DB space required for fittings is probably small in the grand scheme of things.

I would just love to be able to have the old system back.
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#30 - 2011-09-07 14:56:06 UTC
The reason people don't have dozens of fittings stored is that every time I get about forty there is an update that deletes all my fittings Lol

Luckily I back them up in EFT where I have hundreds by now.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-09-07 15:03:15 UTC
if u want us to suggest a limit.

1000 fittings for corp/alliance to cater for all fleet doctrines for
a) low sp pilots,
b) mid sp pilots
c) fully skilled fits

200 fittings for personal

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Vicar2008
MCMLXXVI
#32 - 2011-09-07 15:12:51 UTC
As an example of why 50 fits are sometimes not enough.. let me toss out a few fits currently sitting in my list (not the full fit, just the role/name)

Arty Maelstrom
AC maelstrom
Arty tempest
Tanky Typhoon
Mission Raven
Mission CNR
Ewar Scorp
Mission Drake
PvP Drake #1
PvP Drake #2
Arty 'cane
AC 'cane (nano)
AC 'cane (armor)
PvP Ferox
PvP Vaga
PvP Cynabal
PvP Ruppy
PvP Stabber
PvP Caracal #1
PvP Caracal #2 (trying a variation of #1)
Wolf #1
Wolf #2
Jaguar #1
Jaguar #2 (experiment)
Hound nullsec
Hound hisec
Manticore experiment

Thats just off the top of my head. I have several variations of some of these fittings, and also a few fittings others have sent me that I'm using as goals/reference for future planning.

50 seems like a lot, but really isn't that hard to fill up if you use it.[/quote]


All Gallente do is win win win, oh wait.... Oops
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#33 - 2011-09-07 15:20:51 UTC
50 isn't quite enough, but not by far. I fly all races, pretty much anything sub capital, and do all manner of pvp/pve, so i will be one of the worst case scenarios.
I have just about got enough space for MY fittings for the ships i use (I am one of the apparent few who have 50, i sometimes have to delete older fits to make room etc), but it would be nice to have a few extra slots for fits that other people have linked and i might wanna try some day, or fittings that i wouldn't necessarily use, but are useful linkable information for alliance mates etc.

100 would be a good number.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#34 - 2011-09-07 15:29:36 UTC
We can look at what might be a reasonable upper limit.

If you got 30 ships you regularly fly and want 5 different fits for each, that's 150. So 200 personal fittings would cover it.

For corps, given there are so many different roles a player can fill, we need many more. 1000 should cover it.

With 200 and 1000, I doubt you will get many complaints.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-09-07 15:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyio
About the fittings, I had to delete all i had saved when (before) the change was implemented.
I then had about 130 I think, though most were really not important to keep.

Now I find myself being overly cautious and not saving any fittings.

CCP Prism X wrote:
However, if you really want to remove personal fittings from the DB and back to the client then you're back in ClientLand. I don't really do ClientLand so I cannot speak to the complexity of that.


What about moving the location bookmark folders to the server?
As it is now the bookmarks are serverside, but not the folders we create to sort them.

Also it is currently a pain to sort them..
I would be very happy if the location bookmarking got some dev love. Smile

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#36 - 2011-09-07 15:38:36 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Gorki Andropov wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:
Out of interest, what cap would be acceptable. There has to be a cap or people will never bother with cleaning up the fittings they never use and nobody likes having useless data in our DB if we can avoid it.




Pardon us, Mother, for perhaps wanting not to be bothered about any messiness we might have, in the game that we pay for

Dude, you are an idiot. Database clutter affects every player in the game. If you double the size of a database, the retrieval time goes up by between two and four times depending on the circumstances.

Pick your **** up you disgusting slob, is what I'm saying.




First of all, I am not your dude.


Secondly, if I want to have 5 dozen Celestis fittings, I should really be able to have that. Why can't I? The amount of DB space required for fittings is probably small in the grand scheme of things.

I would just love to be able to have the old system back.



probably small * 300k people != small.


i do have an idea Prism X. you should be able to save fittings locally, or to server. that would deal with the cap on both ends, but also upping it to 100 on the server would not be unreasonable givin the stats for who uses it.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-09-07 15:56:22 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters only ~102k have more than 10 fittings saved or a little less than a third of all people using fittings.
Looking at the rest of the gap there are ~58k characters with twenty or more fittings saved, 37k with thirty or more, ~23k with forty and a little less than 8k pilots are already on the limit of fifty.


Out of curiosity, how many of these are actively used accounts with regular activity? How many of these are cyno alts / mining alts / industrial alts that only fly a very limited number of ships and store very few fittings? While your looking into the stats is nice, I think your overview of it is far too macroscopic.

Now look at high SP pilots who can actually fly multiple races of ships and do so on a regular basis. I can bet those are the ones that have near their upper limit. Personally, I have to store my most used fittings on the server, but have to store my other fits in EveHQ. I leave some free slots so that I can import my EveHQ fits into the game when I need them. Really, 50 slots is just ridiculously low for higher skilled pilots.

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2011-09-07 15:56:33 UTC
bumping it up to 100 sounds cool.
Nin Kimrov
Kenzi Arms and Munitions
#39 - 2011-09-07 16:12:38 UTC
They will never bump it higher than it is currently. The number was chosen because it was a marketing move for a future strategy,
Less than 50 there would have been lots more of complains about missing slots. More, you wouldn't be able to sell them through the Nex shop. 50 is the magic number.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#40 - 2011-09-07 16:40:01 UTC
Lens Thirring wrote:
CCP Prism X wrote:

I was just looking at the stats from TQ after reading this and:
Out of ~310k characters etc.

This is an interesting number.


Not really, out of my 5 accounts and 12 characters spread out over them, only 2 characters have fittings saved, one with 3 or 4 logi type fits and my main with 15 or so, mostly PVE.

I use the killboard to store my PVP fits. Roll

Senex Legio