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WTH is wrong with lvl4 mission enemy cruisers ?
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Ngaio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-03 01:20:53 UTC
Hi,

I recently played lvl4 mission solo and got confused by what seemed to me like complete lack of rules for the enemies.

I was on 3rd spawn and there were like 3 Unidentified Caldari Cruisers, I've been about 130km away from them, but they could not only target me but also jamm me completely, so that I couldn't target a **** 10 km away from me. One of the frigs 10km away from me was warp scrambling me, so I couldn't warp away, and I couldn't target anyone. My repair mod was running all the time, and they couldn't kill me either. I had to spend like 40 minutes flying 300m/s to get away far enough to make them go away, so that I can warp.

Now, I checked all possible cruisers and the maximum stock targeting range is like 60km, with additional skills and targeting modules, it may get up to 90km, but 130-140km? and also, all dampening modules have optimal + max falloff + best skills up to about 90km range.

Can somebody explain to me why enemies are so disconnected from reality here ?

Cheers
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#2 - 2012-02-03 01:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
The mission name would be helpful so someone can check it out or confirm.


AND from which agent.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kiwis23
Kiwis Corp
#3 - 2012-02-03 01:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiwis23
There is a lot things like this.
I guess thy have NPC-only modules or something.
Just to make missions a bit more challenging I guess.
One non-annoying thing that I remember is Angel Extravaganza, last spawn - Drones starts webbing you from 70 km...
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#4 - 2012-02-03 01:44:03 UTC
Kiwis23 wrote:
There is a lot things like this.
I guess thy have NPC-only modules or something.
Just to make missions a bit more challenging I guess.
One non-annoying thing that I remember is Angel Extravaganza, last spawn - Drones starts webbing you from 70 km...



You left out them moving at over 5km/sec. Which is actually fun watching 5 missile vollies zip behind one.



OP:
What mission? I think I know the one but it sounds more like you just got incredibly unlucky with enemy cycle times for their dampeners.

Also, why not fly at the frig and kill it? Since we also dont know what ship you were in so at this point your just making us guess the answer for you.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-02-03 02:05:28 UTC
Getting on over 45 minutes.

OP obviously not interested or concerned.

Nothing to see here.

Stop this thread.

Delete.

Please.


I think we've been fail-trolled.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#6 - 2012-02-03 11:16:03 UTC
Might I suggest FoF missles and/or drones. If you're in a non-missile/non-drone boat then you're screwed when you hit one of the ultra-jamming caldari missions. Sometimes you'll get a gap, but if you can't kill something in time, they'll usually rep your damage before the next go-around. It's just part of learning the missions.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2012-02-03 12:12:38 UTC
Ngaio wrote:
Hi,

Can somebody explain to me why enemies are so disconnected from reality here ?

Cheers


With all Vs:

Even the T1 Caldari EWAR cruiser, the Blackbird, has a base targeting range of 93.8km. This jumps to 150km with just one Targeting range -scripted Sensor Booster II. Put two of those on and you can lock ships at 228km.

Tech II ECM modules have 79.4+80.8km range (optimal+falloff) on that ship, which can be boosted to 111+80km with T1 rigs.

Working as intended. (btw Falcon, the flying ****, has a base locking range of 150km)



.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#8 - 2012-02-03 13:54:19 UTC
Ennemies don't follow the rule… Best example is Guristas rats sniping torpedoes at 60+ km What?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2012-02-03 13:59:44 UTC
In this case they do appear to have equal stats to player ships.

Also, you can shoot torps past 60km.


.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#10 - 2012-02-03 14:18:51 UTC
Roime wrote:
In this case they do appear to have equal stats to player ships.

Also, you can shoot torps past 60km.

No you can't. And certainly not regular torps. And don't bring bombers into this, I'm talking about enemy BS P
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-02-03 14:33:32 UTC
[Raven, Raven 64.9km]

Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]
[Empty Med slot]

[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]
[Empty Low slot]

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I

64.9km

True that the damage notifications probably don't show T2 torps, and there are many inconsistencies (rat frigates have sometimes rather long targeting ranges), but yes, you can :P

.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#12 - 2012-02-03 14:45:17 UTC
I stand corrected, but not by much P
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-02-03 14:51:40 UTC
Sam Bowein wrote:
I stand corrected, but not by much P


Also, nothing more than stupid EFT-warrior fit done while waiting for some huge csv-exports to complete...

See you in space o/

.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#14 - 2012-02-03 15:05:35 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:



AND from which agent.



No, that has absolutely no relevance to anything. We don't need to know about it.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
#15 - 2012-02-03 16:32:36 UTC
Sam Bowein wrote:
Roime wrote:
In this case they do appear to have equal stats to player ships.

Also, you can shoot torps past 60km.

No you can't. And certainly not regular torps. And don't bring bombers into this, I'm talking about enemy BS P



NPCs don't follow the normal rules. I've been hit with torpedoes from NPC ships at nearly 100km range before.

And if you really want to shoot them that far, a stealth bomber can hit with Javelin torpedoes beyond 100km away with range rigs, assuming you can manage to lock a target that far away. It's not really useful, but it's possible.

PVP is a question with no single right answer, but a lot of wrong ones.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-02-03 18:57:09 UTC
Eve has changed. Rats haven't. Rat damps still work just like player damps did before the damp nerf. Tracking disruptors just like they did before they got buffed. HP's are the same as they were before several HP buffs and rigs were introduced. ECM still has much stronger jam strength than players (Cause that never got nerfed when ECM in general did). Torp range was never changed, even when player torps range got nerfed. Rats never got teir 2/3 BC's, or teir 3 BS's. etc.

Lots of things have changed for players. They haven't for NPC's.

-Arazel
Luthor Reiza
The League of Delusional Grandeur
#17 - 2012-02-03 22:19:56 UTC
Gavin DeVries wrote:
Sam Bowein wrote:
Roime wrote:
In this case they do appear to have equal stats to player ships.

Also, you can shoot torps past 60km.

No you can't. And certainly not regular torps. And don't bring bombers into this, I'm talking about enemy BS P



NPCs don't follow the normal rules. I've been hit with torpedoes from NPC ships at nearly 100km range before.



This. In my experience the ai doesn't follow constrictions of weapons at all. I've had torpedoes hitting me at 100km+ on guristas missions before and to the best of my knowledge, whether they use electronic warfare modules has less to do with range and more to do with luck in most cases.
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-02-03 22:49:01 UTC
NPCs don't follow base ship specs and they don't use mods. They have per-rat specs, not per-ship, their jamming and repping is chance-based, and their lock ranges are usually insanely long.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#19 - 2012-02-03 23:39:31 UTC

NPC's don't follow normal rules... I've had NPC's attacking from over 200 km's away...

WTB Serpentis sensor dampeners..



Ngaio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-04 00:12:41 UTC
Hi,

thanks for all replies. I posted this quite late yesterday, so sorry I wasn't coming back until now.

The mission I was doing I think was "Unauthorised presence..." or something similar, where I jump to location and they already wait for me. There's no accel gate there, they just spawn group by group.

I was flying Mega with rails fitted, didn't have any sensor booster installed, and got dampened to 0 by all three cruisers, as I couldn't target anything, even 1km close to me, including those cruisers.

BS was obviously a big mistake, I should have taken HAC for that with better resolution.

I think it's not right that they give those NPCs such capabilities, as it defeats the purpose of tactical configurations.
But maybe they just want to stop people playing lvl 4 missions solo.

Cheers
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