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Why not, give us the option to
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#21 - 2012-02-06 15:57:28 UTC
Karak Bol wrote:
I am all but a bittervet (7 mil) and I really like the system how Eve forces you with "pick a choice and live with it". A reset would completely destroy this facet of the game.


This.

It is good that choices have lasting consequences.

Also, this character, my main, is close to 90 million SP by now, I think (I'm too lazy to check, but I know it'll be a few months more before I hit 100M), and despite being rather a generalist, there are very, very few of his skillz that I'd like to undo even if given the chance to redistribute the SP (even if for free, not paying PLEX for it). I figure maybe 7% of his SP, tops. Probably closer to 3%.

Even if EAFs suck, CCP will probably look into them and fix them some day. It happened to Assault Frigates. Heck, several years ago, I was unhappy about the Navy Caracal. It had too little CPU or grid or both. Eventually CCP dropped by and gave it a nice, sweet boost, making it a viable choice.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#22 - 2012-02-06 16:02:28 UTC
Metesurena wrote:
I support this idea

however it needs to have some kind of penalties, like unlearning skills at the same rate you would train them, or removing the whole skill while getting 50% refund of its SP or something like that

maybe throw PLEX or aurum into the mix


I dislike the idea on a fundamental level, but putting on my game designer's hat, here's one proposal:

Pay 1 PLEX
Select one skill category
Within that skill category, you may "nuke" skill levels worth a total of 5 million SP. You "nuke" one skill level at a time, starting with the highest level of the chosen skill. 75% of nuked SP goes into a re-allocate amount (the rest are lost), which can be used in any category. You have 24 hours to spend your "nuke" allowance of 5M SP within that category, after which any unspent "nuke" allowance is lost. If you want to remove skillz from multiple categories, you must spend multiple PLEXes. Likewise if you want to "nuke" more than 5 million SP within the same category, spend additional PLEXes.

Re-allocating SPs work as back when CCP removed Learning skills and re-did the Connections skills, i.e. instantly.
Signal11th
#23 - 2012-02-06 16:53:43 UTC
Challenged wrote:
Reset our skills via RL payment.

There are plenty of people who regret training skills, or who aim for some certain type of ship / interaction and once reaching that goal, wish they hadn't and feel they have wasted there time.

Most people's first character have skills all over the place. I look at my skill chart and just shake my head, why the hell did I train EAFs?
Or why does my purely combat alt have indy 5 / freighter 5. I don't own a freighter, don't wish to own a freighter, but I thought it might be a good idea back in the day.

To move my salvaged crap.

From Frarn to Rens.

fark...

So why not GIVE US the option:
Go to account management.
Pay $15-30 for a skill reset. people would probibly pay more (I would pay anything up to $100 honestly)
Once a year if need be to stop possible exploits?
Make us do a nudey run in the icelandic ice.
ANYTHING

It's quite frustrating knowing what I do now, knowing what I could be doing in game, and than looking down the barrel of a 100 day training time. ADD kicks in, alt tabs to ****.

Please



TL-DR I have no patience.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Ravenal
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-02-07 02:17:10 UTC
better solution is just to drop the stupid price increase in clone cost as you get more skill points --- it's bad for casual players and discouraging for any player with loads of skill points.

That way your "unwisely" chosen skills don't cost you actual isk when you die horribly.

... Another option if you really want to get rid of those skill points is to get repeatedly podded until you lose them.
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-02-07 16:41:25 UTC
I love the fact that eve is choice and consiquence.

Allowing people to pay to remap their skills removes the consiquences of their choices.

Yes I would love to be able to do this as I have many millions of sp in industry and science that I'll never use but in the same breath I don't support this idea because it'd ruine the game for me.

It's akin to buying GTA V on day 1 and putting in all the cheat codes, ok, it might be fun but you'll miss a large part of the game.
Baaa Shakiel
Kinnah Incorporated
#26 - 2012-02-12 18:46:39 UTC
Karak Bol wrote:
I am all but a bittervet (7 mil) and I really like the system how Eve forces you with "pick a choice and live with it". A reset would completely destroy this facet of the game.


^ This

I regretted training for Hulks.

BUT. It's also because of this particular regret that I love EVE for its Meta-game. "Is this your Final Answer?". Hell Yes.

Besides, you never know when afk mining cos you just don't wanna do anything else may come in handy.

Who Said that Noob Ships SuCK? http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15091146#lostLoadout

Buddy Program Available - Start off with Millions of Isk! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=9874&p=10
Master ore
Space-Bar
#27 - 2012-02-12 19:12:45 UTC
resetting skills is dumb.
you would get people flying a class of ship which takes a bit of time to train ie armour HAC,s deciding i dont like that no more so i,ll go shield logistic,s after a week or so at that they think I do not like that anymore so i,ll try Ammar battleships, then I know command ships look good so next week re distribue and fly them.
Someone says carrier are best so i,ll redistribute and get a minny charrier, fred in corp says u made wrong choise should have gone dread as we have an op needing them next week then go to a galente carrier,so thats next plan
There would be no incentive to train anything above the minimum sp to max out the most skill intensive ship cos you just pay your money and swop to whatever is flavour of the week.

Yukanojo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-02-13 13:48:25 UTC
Master ore wrote:
resetting skills is dumb.
you would get people flying a class of ship which takes a bit of time to train ie armour HAC,s deciding i dont like that no more so i,ll go shield logistic,s after a week or so at that they think I do not like that anymore so i,ll try Ammar battleships, then I know command ships look good so next week re distribue and fly them.
Someone says carrier are best so i,ll redistribute and get a minny charrier, fred in corp says u made wrong choise should have gone dread as we have an op needing them next week then go to a galente carrier,so thats next plan
There would be no incentive to train anything above the minimum sp to max out the most skill intensive ship cos you just pay your money and swop to whatever is flavour of the week.



This.

I would like to see a way to clean up my skills though by voiding out trained skills so my clones are cheaper. I've got some badass industry skills that I no longer use that drive up the cost of my clone upgrades that I'd love to see go. But that's definitely a "live with the consequences" situation - if I forget them to get cheaper clone upgrades, I also do not have those skills and would have to re-invest all that time into training them again should I need them.
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-02-13 16:12:56 UTC
Cash is King... Give it some time and everything will be aquired via cash directly from CCP. They already started with PLEX.

All of the people that want to play the game for free still have some rich kid or fat dude paying for them to play. The rich kid and fat guy will have his way in the end...
Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#30 - 2012-02-13 16:58:00 UTC
- Buy PLEX
- Sell ingame
- go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=277
- buy character with skills you like

There you are: New skills for real money. And the best of it: You can keep your old skills too!

Spybeaver
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-02-14 08:52:42 UTC
Ravenal wrote:
better solution is just to drop the stupid price increase in clone cost as you get more skill points --- it's bad for casual players and discouraging for any player with loads of skill points.

That way your "unwisely" chosen skills don't cost you actual isk when you die horribly.

... Another option if you really want to get rid of those skill points is to get repeatedly podded until you lose them.


This actually does have merit - and iirc it was mentioned somewhere as something being considered (was it the CSM minutes?)

The cost of the higher level clones is fairly steep for those players who are not out there for the ISK and do a lot of dying (dying is half the fun!)
Squidgey
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-02-14 17:03:27 UTC
Challenged wrote:
So let them "abuse" it once a year. It's going to destroy the game no doubt.

Rich kids and fat people pump a lot of money into CCP's pockets, offset by the other half like myself, probibly by yourself, who earn more than enough in game to pay via market bought plex.

This is just another means to get more cash to them, and to help idiots like myself who train stupidly.

How does this hurt you than?

Let me rephrase your question.

I would be able to remap to all level V skills for a very specific flavor of the month setup, and then hunt you down with the maximum possible effectiveness when I would otherwise have sucked horribly at using said fit.

Now let me ask you:

Are you ok with being on the receiving end of someone who spent zero time focusing on a specific fit only to remap and mop the floor with you?

Are you ok with this game turning into every other flavor of the month build-fest?

If this was possible, CCP would be forced to rebalance the game monthly. We would be playing warcraft in space with ships instead of armor.
Arafelis Keikira
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-02-15 19:09:21 UTC
Dr Caymus wrote:
There might be a reasonable idea in this somewhere, though. Please clarify exactly what you envision for this "reset" mechanic. Maybe we can build upon your concept.



I like this response. I actually have nothing to gain from any kind of skill resetting mechanic, but as old as the idea doubtless is (I'm going to guess -- one month after the game came out?), it's a shame to see so much rage-locking on it.

In that spirit, here's a few thoughts. I'd like to preface this by reminding people -- both those for and against an idea like this -- to keep in mind what they actually want. Goals can be achieved in many different ways.


  • Limited by sp/year. Doubtless suggested before. It would remove the "re-spec every month for perfectly targeted skills" objection (which really seems trivially easy to overcome in dozens of ways), but on the other hand, it doesn't seem that much different in the long term than the yearly remap -- both can put you in a similar place with smart planning. Instant gratification bonus?
  • Inefficient. Also probably suggested before. You don't get back all the sp you put in, but instead a putative 2/3rds or whatever. Eh. This wouldn't solve the problem of people bitching about it. (Can I say '***** about it'? Hm.) I mean any system people will complain about but I think the same people would complain the same amount about this.
  • Sell (and buy) sp on the open market. Regretting training for those Hulks? Lobotomize yourself for ISK! This is incredibly abuseable. I really can't imagine a way for it to work practically, but the thought amused me. Maybe someone else could build on it.
  • Direct sp transfer, only between related skills. A slightly better form of limitation, maybe coupled with the first entry. Eh. I still don't really like it.
  • Liquidated time. Looking at training as sp/time rather than just sp, this would be a way of building buyer's remorse recovery into the existing mechanics. Basically, rather than picking a skill and getting the sp back all at once, you would eliminate the skill for a training bonus (say, one to two thousand sp/hr OR a % bonus) until the new SP total matches the old sp total + sp gained over time (or in other words, hours sp bonus time until all the liquidated sp is reclaimed). You could play around with combining this with the first two ideas, too, but this seems like the most reasonable way to do what was suggested.


As I said, I really have no vested interest in this as a mechanic (at least not for another year or two, ha). I just like kicking around ideas.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-02-18 12:25:14 UTC
There are no wasted skills in EVE so I have no idea why anyone would want to reset them.

Just because EAF's suck at the moment, wouldn't you feel a total plank when you reset it and CCP releases a patch that makes them FOTM and you need to waste another few weeks learning them again?

I have EAF 5 and I have on occasion used them. They are still broken but CCP will fix them at some point.

Your 'idea' would benefit me massively as I would have around a 1,250,000 SP to dump into something else.

I don't want to pay to win. That is not EVE and never will be. I want to win because I am better, not because of some iffy game mechanic.

And if you had bothered to type skill reset into search, you would've found lots of threads about this.

Still a stupid idea that would break the game at so many levels.

Think you should consider all possible outcomes from your suggestions before posting, not just what's in it for you.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-02-18 13:22:58 UTC
Challenged wrote:
Reset our skills via RL payment.

There are plenty of people who regret training skills, or who aim for some certain type of ship / interaction and once reaching that goal, wish they hadn't and feel they have wasted there time.

Most people's first character have skills all over the place. I look at my skill chart and just shake my head, why the hell did I train EAFs?
Or why does my purely combat alt have indy 5 / freighter 5. I don't own a freighter, don't wish to own a freighter, but I thought it might be a good idea back in the day.

To move my salvaged crap.

From Frarn to Rens.

fark...

So why not GIVE US the option:
Go to account management.
Pay $15-30 for a skill reset. people would probibly pay more (I would pay anything up to $100 honestly)
Once a year if need be to stop possible exploits?
Make us do a nudey run in the icelandic ice.
ANYTHING

It's quite frustrating knowing what I do now, knowing what I could be doing in game, and than looking down the barrel of a 100 day training time. ADD kicks in, alt tabs to ****.

Please



Yes, yes, yeeeeeeessss ... - Uh, got to excited ...
Well, yes, definitely.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#36 - 2012-02-20 14:16:42 UTC
Yukanojo wrote:

I would like to see a way to clean up my skills though by voiding out trained skills so my clones are cheaper. I've got some badass industry skills that I no longer use that drive up the cost of my clone upgrades that I'd love to see go. But that's definitely a "live with the consequences" situation - if I forget them to get cheaper clone upgrades, I also do not have those skills and would have to re-invest all that time into training them again should I need them.


This highlights what I feel is wrong with SP redistribution (or even nuking). Your words "that I no longer use". ...

What you are saying is that you used to use those skills, and I presume you benefitted from those skills at one point in your characters life.... So why sould you be allowed to 'nuke' them in order to get a benefit somewhere else in the game (lower clone costs)?

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Josef Djugashvilis
#37 - 2012-02-26 23:32:10 UTC
Challenged wrote:
Reset our skills via RL payment.

There are plenty of people who regret training skills, or who aim for some certain type of ship / interaction and once reaching that goal, wish they hadn't and feel they have wasted there time.

Most people's first character have skills all over the place. I look at my skill chart and just shake my head, why the hell did I train EAFs?
Or why does my purely combat alt have indy 5 / freighter 5. I don't own a freighter, don't wish to own a freighter, but I thought it might be a good idea back in the day.

To move my salvaged crap.

From Frarn to Rens.

fark...

So why not GIVE US the option:
Go to account management.
Pay $15-30 for a skill reset. people would probibly pay more (I would pay anything up to $100 honestly)
Once a year if need be to stop possible exploits?
Make us do a nudey run in the icelandic ice.
ANYTHING

It's quite frustrating knowing what I do now, knowing what I could be doing in game, and than looking down the barrel of a 100 day training time. ADD kicks in, alt tabs to ****.



This will seem less like a good idea when you sober up.
Please

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