Crime & Punishment

No, the Tornado is better against multiple targets - and single targets. I routinely cycle my 1400MM (overheated) 3-4 times before Concord kills me in 0.7. I alpha at 13+K so thats roughly 36-48K damage per Tornado with average hit quality. You can distribute that damage amongst multiple targets spread 70-100KM apart.

Can't fly the Talos, but based on my knowledge of suicide ganking, I'm quite sure it can't even approach that.

I'm training Hybrids because I believe the Talos has a role in killing Cargo-fit Orcas, but the Talos just didn't grow up with all the advantages of the Tornado.

-30KM of optimal + very long falloff range of Tornado pushes your engagement envelope to 50KM or more.
-ammo switching (as Catalyst ganking is pushing miners to tank Kin/Therm)
-alpha + more raw damage.

Anybody who wants to be a dedicated ganker should max their Tornado/Arty skills first. Hybrid ganking is a distant second.

Alpha ganking >>>>> DPS ganking.

There are two ways to make Hulk/Mackinaw ganking profitable.
A) kill a single Mackinaw or Hulk with a single Catalyst. (Yes you can solo gank Hulks with Cats....)
B) kill at least 2 Mackinaws/Hulks per BC hull, but more is better. Kill 4, and you are rolling in cash.

This, by itself, is profitable.
The real money starts to roll in when you threaten the miners.
-Evemail them, demand 200M ISK or you'll track them down and blow them up repeatedly.
-Follow up on your threat using address books, tracking agents, and an Orca to easily move your op.

You'll either get tears, CCP petition threats, or ISK. All are good.
I find that most of them will pay after losing 2-3 Exhumers to the same ganking alt.
Try to identify bots/mining accounts that belong to the same group/person, and kill all at once. Quite effective.

The good thing about blasters is that they have high dps AND good alpha. Obviously not higher than a tornado, but it's up there. Well over 6000 a volley when overheated, as well as fast cycle time. Unfortunately, targets have to be relatively close because, you know...blasters...

Anyway, not arguing that the Tornado is gank king, just saying that the Talos can have just as muc hsuccess when carebears are ******** enough to sit 3km apart in a group of three.

The stats you spouted were so amazing that I fit up one in-game to verify your numbers. With my near-perfect skills, In game cycle times match EFT cycle times perfectly.

Overheated, with max skills, and max implants, 1400mm Howitzers have an overheated 12.5-14 second cycle time.
The first shot is free....,
2 Shots = 12.5-14 seconds
3 shots = 25 - 28 seconds
4 shots = 37.5 - 42 seconds

In my testing, a 25 second concord response time is very rare even in the lower 0.5 systems (I tested in 0.47 truesec)... How are you able to get a 25-40 second concord response time in a 0.7 system.... Either you know of a good way to divert concord, or your eyes are brown!

I might come across as a no-experience EFT warrior, but I've done a little PvP here and there; certainly enough to boast a thorough understanding of most PvP mechanics. I understand how EFT differs from reality, but it also provides a good baseline.

I'm new to the suicide ganking scene, and haven't PvP'd on-the-clock. So, what I'm most curious about is the time-frame of a gank.

I compared my in-game module cycle times with EFT to look for a discrepency before I posted the above numbers, and I found none. I'll admit, I haven't stop-watched my Arty ships, and I'm not sure I'd notice a 2-3 s discrepency, but I'll be flabbergasted if it's that big.

As for my Concord Response times, I didn't just pull numbers from the Goon's wiki. I rolled up an alt, took him out to different systems on TQ, and shot people sitting in the belts. I repeated it well over a dozen times in different sytems and measured the concord response times with my logs. I have NEVER seen a concord response time above 24 seconds, despite a fair number of tests. I did most of my tests in a 0.5 system....

So, what I don't understand in your post, is your proclamation of FOUR volleys from 1400 arties. I would image acheiving 2 volleys Regularly, 3 Very Rarely, and not a chance in hell at four volleys.

If you say it happened to you, I'll believe you. I'm just really curious as to WHY it happened.

There isn't a thorough guide to Concord's response times, and I've been thinking of creating one. I'm fairly confident in my base concord response times, I'm just looking for the nuances and tricks that can be employed to increase/decrease the response times. If you have 30+ second responses, something else is diverting concord's attention, and I want to figure out how to purposely do it.

Hmmm. A quote, a quote. Ah, here it is.

You are kind of off track in your thinking, to be honest. To be fair, I could be wrong about getting 4 shots in 0.7 - but I've easily done 3, and four in 0.6/0.5. Further, Smodab thinks Concord behavior may have been 'stealth' buffed without a patchnote, so it may have been possible before mid January. It may be true, but his methods differ from mine.

Either way, CCP has nerfed every form of high-sec aggression in the game and would likely nerf this too. My guess is that CCP wants a healthy botting population.

As far as reporting bots goes, I've done it repeatedly with multiple accounts for about 10 weeks now. As in, every time I see them in local. No evidence that the ice-mining robotic free money train is inconvenienced in the least by CCP.

Luckily with game mechanics as they are, you can earn more ISK/hr killing Exhumers than the Exhumers earn mining.
I want it to stay that way.

Was concord already in the belt?

Just....yes. Comprehend please. If you only gank a single Hulk/Mack with a Tornado - YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
You kill lone Exhumers with Catalysts. Tornados are for ganking 2-4 Exhumers at a time. (As in, the miners lose 3-4 ships worth 500-700M ISK - for each BC you lose to Concord - and the drops + salvage make it profitable.)

I'll spell it out.

Suppose you kill 3 Macks with one Tornado. (this is quite easy in 0.7 ice belts...four or more is possible, but more challenging)
Thats about 15-20M in drops, plus, on average you salvage 3 Intact Armor Plates. (20M each...)
If you scoop your own wreckage and 1400M Howitzers as well, you are making a tidy profit.

Here's a free tip for gankers:
Further, if you gank NEXT to your Orca, you can actually drag and drop your expensive T2 1400MM Howitzers into the corporate hangar bay, even while Concord has you jammed and neuted - saving them from destruction or theft. CCP requires your ship dies - but saving your mods using the fitting service is perfectly legit. (JUST REMEMBER - you don't need to open the fitting window, just drag them directly from the UI into the Orca's corp hangar, quick, easy, foolproof.)

The best way to gank miners and expect profit is to get 2 other friends and get a few hundred destroyers ready.

cost 2.1m pr fitted destroyer with meta 2 fitting and 3 of them can kill any hulk / mackinaw you want.

have alt ready to loot / salvage and you earn enough to keep it going indefinably.

Scan after the good ones, People love to fit strange hulks ... like this KM
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12493798

Used some extra power on that one.. Hey its a 900m hulk ^^


And a video of some ganking ive made

Did you get four consecutive shots off with the same turret, or did you split your weapon's fire? I think I'll test this with sisi tonight...