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Lyris Nairn for CSM7 : I Want YOU to Be Represented!
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Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-02-01 03:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
PLEASE SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR MY CAMPAIGN BY CLICKING 'LIKE' ▬►


Hello space friends.

This thread is about a very specific topic which I have decided to include on my platform for the CSM. I want to talk to you about how the members of the CSM are elected, and what that means for the average player in EVE Online.

As it stands right now the CSM elections disproportionately favor those candidates whom are able to draw upon a large and very well organized voting bloc by means of their in game affiliation; for example, The Mittani and Vile Rat are on the CSM because of the organized voting message they were able to dictate to the Clusterfuck Coalition, that entity being the combined coalition of some of the largest Alliances in the game: Goonswarm Federation, TEST Alliance Please Ignore, and the dozens of other, smaller entities, that live in the Null Sec regions of Deklein, Fountain, Branch, Fade, Pure Blind, and the surrounding areas.

Because these entities were presented with very specific candidates towards which all of their votes were funneled, those few candidates were assured of a certain amount of votes from those players and their alt accounts. And because these specific entities each have communities that extend well beyond the in game culture of EVE Online, those being message boards such as Reddit, Something Awful, and 4chan, there was a very effective "grassroots" style drive to get out the vote, and it was very effective.

By contrast, the average EVE player was presented with a dizzying array of candidates, many of them with similar platforms, and the much larger combined vote of everyone else not aligned with the Clusterfuck Coalition was split among these other candidates. Though the total votes that were cast for non-Clusterfuck Coalition candidates were well in excess of those cast for Clusterfuck Coalition candidates, the records show us that many of these other candidates each received individually very poor vote totals which resulted in many of the votes cast for them being effectively "wasted".

My stance, which I would like to argue to CCP on behalf of You, dear EVE Online Player, is that we need voting reform.

Something that would benefit the vast majority of the EVE playerbase would be proportional representation and selected transferable votes because in the present system a big chunk of the voting share is effectively "wasted" by people voting for this or that candidate, each one of a dozen or more who receive fewer than the minimum needed to gain a seat. With transferable votes there would be a lot more representation of the non-Goon interest on the CSM, because people could then delineate their votes to go to Candidate Y in the event that Candidate X is not elected, and so on. Right now one of the big advantages that an organized voting bloc like the Clusterfuck Coalition has over the rest of the game is that all of their votes go to specified candidates which will almost surely win positions whereas the rest of the game's population is left to blindly pick one of the other horses in the race and is left with no recourse or representation once that horse loses.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2 - 2012-02-01 08:07:50 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Right now one of the big advantages that an organized voting bloc like the Clusterfuck Coalition has over the rest of the game is that all of their votes go to specified candidates which will almost surely win positions whereas the rest of the game's population is left to blindly pick one of the other horses in the race and is left with no recourse or representation once that horse loses.

Yes, the coordination game problem. Basically, it would help a lot if someone were to organize the unorganized voters. But if they can't all agree, the body has to split itself smaller and smaller unless people accept positions that they dislike.

It would be really nice if one had the option to just vote someone and not think about it further because it was fairly obvious that no agency problem would occur.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Goonswarm Recruitment
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-02-01 09:21:14 UTC
Hi, I'm Goonswarm Recruitment, and I endorse Lyris Nairn for CSM.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-02-01 09:22:59 UTC
You know it's good when the people who directly benefit from a broken system are arguing for its abolition.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Goonswarm Recruitment
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-02-01 09:24:43 UTC
Yes, it is much like how the founding fathers of the United States advocated for abolition while still holding many slaves, or in Thomas Jefferson's case, sex slaves.
Dryr Lint
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-02-01 09:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dryr Lint
Hello, as a pubby, I Dryr Lint realize that not only do goons have the best interests of bears like me in mind, but they are also the most capable of executing plans to re balance eve because of their knowledge and expertise in being the kings and queens of eve. That's why I'll be voting for Lyris Nairn for CSM.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#7 - 2012-02-01 10:06:46 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

Something that would benefit the vast majority of the EVE playerbase would be proportional representation and selected transferable votes because in the present system a big chunk of the voting share is effectively "wasted" by people voting for this or that candidate, each one of a dozen or more who receive fewer than the minimum needed to gain a seat. With transferable votes there would be a lot more representation of the non-Goon interest on the CSM, because people could then delineate their votes to go to Candidate Y in the event that Candidate X is not elected, and so on. Right now one of the big advantages that an organized voting bloc like the Clusterfuck Coalition has over the rest of the game is that all of their votes go to specified candidates which will almost surely win positions whereas the rest of the game's population is left to blindly pick one of the other horses in the race and is left with no recourse or representation once that horse loses.


If one does not vote for a candidate selected by our overlords that vote is "wasted". Roll


Ps. Posting in goon propaganda thread Blink

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Aideria
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-02-01 10:12:28 UTC
Dryr Lint wrote:
Hello, as a pubby, I Dryr Lint realize that not only do goons have the best interests of bears like me in mind, but they are also the most capable of executing plans to re balance eve because of their knowledge and expertise in being the kings and queens of eve. That's why I'll be voting for Lyris Nairn for CSM.

We need knowledgeable people on the csm, pulling the reigns in a direction that is important to everyone who plays the game.

The op of this thread isn't one of them.

Please take the csm elections seriously, and vote for individuals who understand what is going on with ship balancing and game mechanics. We don't need a babbling attentionwhore being voted to the csm as some kind of joke.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-02-01 11:04:40 UTC
Aideria wrote:
We need knowledgeable people on the csm, pulling the reigns in a direction that is important to everyone who plays the game.

The op of this thread isn't one of them.

Please take the csm elections seriously, and vote for individuals who understand what is going on with ship balancing and game mechanics. We don't need a babbling attentionwhore being voted to the csm as some kind of joke.





Problem is, if the CSM continues you need people that know the game and just as importantly are not driven by their own agenda or their corp/alliance agenda.


Now does such a beast exist?
GeneticWeapon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-02-01 11:22:20 UTC
Lyris you would think the voting mechanics were working just fine if the people of your alliance were behind you and wanted you to win. You know that's not going to happen though and there's a reason for it. We elect our best people, people who have proven themselves and are knowledgeable of how this game works. You don't do anything for our coalition, nor do you understand things like supercaps or sov warfare or even what the empire pubbies need to get through their dreary days. This whole candidacy of yours is just a big "give me attention" button and everybody knows it.

Making a huge post on eve-o pointing out the methods in which we in Goonswarm cast our votes and use our numbers to an advantage to get our dudes getting elected is pretty crappy. Not that it's not obvious to everyone anyways, but you are here literally taking a stand against something that is good for our alliance, and advocating that it gets broken.

I'm not sure how you got into Goonwaffe, but I'm looking forward to the day you get commissar'd for being the huge pubby that you are..

tl;dr

Get Out

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#11 - 2012-02-01 11:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
GeneticWeapon wrote:
You don't do anything for our coalition, nor do you understand things like supercaps or sov warfare or even what the empire pubbies need to get through their dreary days.


Nothing about your post leads me to believe you know much either. And as the CSM is a position whose only power is influence and access, the one and *only* critical skillset is social skills. Knowledge is superfluous when you represent people who can feed you the information you need. And considering Lyris is essentially the face of Goonswarm on these forums, and you're some random bee no one knows, I don't quite think you're on the right track here. Is Lyris going to have the sort of influence and presence The Mittani weilds currently? Doubtful. Is he a better candidate than most? Absolutely. Trying to tear down an independent run for a seat is a pretty goddamn stupid idea if you ask me.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-02-01 11:41:43 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
GeneticWeapon wrote:
You don't do anything for our coalition, nor do you understand things like supercaps or sov warfare or even what the empire pubbies need to get through their dreary days.


Nothing about your post leads me to believe you know much either. And as the CSM is a position whose only power is influence and access, the one and *only* critical skillset is social skills. Knowledge is superfluous when you represent people who can feed you the information you need. And considering Lyris is essentially the face of Goonswarm on these forums, and you're some random bee no one knows, I don't quite think you're on the right track here. Is Lyris going to have the sort of influence and presence The Mittani weilds currently? Doubtful. Is he a better candidate than most? Absolutely. Trying to tear down an independent run for a seat is a pretty goddamn stupid idea if you ask me.




Knowledge of the game is very important, I'd say even before social skills unless you just wish to be someone's puppet.

But you need the social skills to get things done, so social skills are a close second to knowledge of the game.


As for being just a figure-head on the forums that's irrelevant unless you like potential puppets of course.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#13 - 2012-02-01 11:43:59 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:


Knowledge of the game is very important, I'd say even before social skills unless you just wish to be someone's puppet.

But you need the social skills to get things done, so social skills are a close second to knowledge of the game.


As for being just a figure-head on the forums that's irrelevant unless you like potential puppets of course.



Trust me, an immensely charismatic individual with a crash-course on necessary information is an infinitely stronger force for change than a socially inept expert. One is better suited to lead, the other advise. And with a game like EVE, social skills and extensive, detailed game knowledge very rarely go hand in hand.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-02-01 11:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:


Knowledge of the game is very important, I'd say even before social skills unless you just wish to be someone's puppet.

But you need the social skills to get things done, so social skills are a close second to knowledge of the game.


As for being just a figure-head on the forums that's irrelevant unless you like potential puppets of course.



Trust me, an immensely charismatic individual with a crash-course on necessary information is an infinitely stronger force for change than a socially inept expert. One is better suited to lead, the other advise. And with a game like EVE, social skills and extensive, detailed game knowledge very rarely go hand in hand.




So you're saying a person that has the gift of the gab and knows nothing of which they speak of, would make a good CSM.

They might make a good conduit to relay what someone else thinks but that's about it, they won't be able to contribute much other than being a figure-head.


Good sound knowledge of the game should be a factor in any choice of CSM, if we still have to have them.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-02-01 12:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Uppsy Daisy
Quote:
And considering Lyris is essentially the face of Goonswarm on these forums


Given the 'posting on behalf of Goonswarm' tone of many of his posts you would think that.

(Like this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19205
Or even this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=334434)

I did.

I accused him of basically being a Goon diplomat, but got a massive wall o' text denying this.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=659345#post659345

I no longer understand quite who or what Lyris represents, aside from himself.

Given he is running for CSM, some honest clarity (without too much babble) would be good.
GeneticWeapon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-02-01 12:01:46 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:


Nothing about your post leads me to believe you know much either.


My post wasn't directed at you, nor do I care what you think pubby. Lyris can be the face of goonswarm on these forums all he wants, because we hate these forums and he can have them. Most of us only come here to **** up the place when goonfleet.com is down.
GeneticWeapon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-02-01 12:07:08 UTC
Uppsy Daisy wrote:

I no longer understand quite who or what Lyris represents, aside from himself.

Given he is running for CSM, some honest clarity (without too much babble) would be good.


He isn't anybody or anything in our alliance, the only people who even know him are the people in his squad, and only because he sits in a chat channel all day bugging people to come +rep his posts here on eve-o
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#18 - 2012-02-01 12:15:21 UTC
GeneticWeapon wrote:


My post wasn't directed at you, nor do I care what you think pubby. Lyris can be the face of goonswarm on these forums all he wants, because we hate these forums and he can have them. Most of us only come here to **** up the place when goonfleet.com is down.



Then why do you care, nobody? His candidacy in no way hurts the primary GS candidate's, and he isn't aiming to represent GS either. 0 votes would be lost if he became a serious contender.


Sasha Azala wrote:

So you're saying a person that has the gift of the gab and knows nothing of which they speak of, would make a good CSM.


how many presidents and kings do you think were brilliant scientists, cunning strategists, etc? Few to none. You don't need to understand the intricacies of something to know its broken and needs fixing, and the CSM is not tasked with providing details. You sure as hell need to be able to motivate people to get up in arms about an issue or be able to express the problem in clear language, though. You want examples? Churchill, Kennedy, Lincoln...


Sasha Azala wrote:

They might make a good conduit to relay what someone else thinks but that's about it, they won't be able to contribute much other than being a figure-head.


A leader doesn't relay someone else's opinion. He either is given the rundown by experts and comes to a conclusion, or he represents his constituents and lets the opinion of the majority decide. The CSM is not a position CCP comes to in order to ask what numbers they should tweak. Its a group of people who provide high quality feedback and represent the playerbase. By far the most important skills would be confidence, clarity, and the ability to drink with devs and not make yourself look like some aspie having his first night out. That, and not being afraid to call an idea out on being pants-on-head ********.


Uppsy Daisy wrote:

Given the 'posting on behalf of Goonswarm' tone of many of his posts you would think that.


I never said he represented goonswarm. I said he was the face of goonswarm here. When a person totally unaware of nullsec politics thinks GS, they think The Mittani first, and then the high profile people who actually speak to the community second. People like Andski and Lyris. They could be the lowest of the lowly peons inside the alliance itself, but they are essentially acting diplomats out here.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-02-01 12:26:12 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

Uppsy Daisy wrote:

Given the 'posting on behalf of Goonswarm' tone of many of his posts you would think that.


I never said he represented goonswarm. I said he was the face of goonswarm here. When a person totally unaware of nullsec politics thinks GS, they think The Mittani first, and then the high profile people who actually speak to the community second. People like Andski and Lyris. They could be the lowest of the lowly peons inside the alliance itself, but they are essentially acting diplomats out here.


You are right.

I am essentially unaware of null sec politics.

When I think Goons I think Mittens, then Lyris.
GeneticWeapon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-02-01 12:42:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

I never said he represented goonswarm. I said he was the face of goonswarm here. When a person totally unaware of nullsec politics thinks GS, they think The Mittani first, and then the high profile people who actually speak to the community second. People like Andski and Lyris. They could be the lowest of the lowly peons inside the alliance itself, but they are essentially acting diplomats out here.


Andski is actually worthy of csm candidacy and has a good understanding of the game. I know this because he's active and participates in the things we do. Lyris does not.

Casting a vote for someone because they're an eve-o superstar is moronic, and I expect nothing less from a test alliance pubbie with more forum "likes" than actual kills on his killboard.
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