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Gate Probe Idea
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Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-02-03 23:08:14 UTC
Mary Annabelle wrote:
You do realize, that the only difference between the probe idea, and your suggestion, is that your suggestion gives the gate camp a free shot at a kill mail.
They DO, however, have to gamble on the pilot getting past their camp. Every pilot getting past their camp is a failure, if they weren't there just for killmails, but to block unfriendly access too.

Now, for killmail farmers, this will reduce a few kills from pilots careful enough to use it. I do not see that many being lost this way, it just doesn't make sense.
Intel channels will already be warning pilots, and if they are careful enough to use probes, it is silly to assume they aren't paying attention to the intel chatter.

If anything, the confirmed threat of the gate camp is enhancing their effectiveness in blocking unfriendly pilots.



Factoring in module lag, do you have any idea how tricky it is to catch a cloaky anything?

Even Intercepters and some Frigates are "Not worth chasing"; there is a reason nano gangs are so popular, and that the great "speed nerf" happened. Please realize I'm beyond experienced in Gate Camping, Station Games and Generally PvP at any single 'grid' type. Your probe idea limits the efficiency of gate camps, and encourages blobbing, this isn't helpful in any regard, and is more detrimental then anything.

Space needs more anonymity, not less.

Risk aversion is already a problem, and is definitely not something that needs outright encouragement. If you don't feel comfortable scouting for yourself, then you should spend some time and figure out how to do it properly, you can already see on the ingame map how populated a system is and how many pod kills have been there in the last 1h/24h. Its not like figuring out where a gate camp are is difficult.

Smart players should continue to have a competive edge, theres no reason for an "easy mode getting through the great gate camps" button. Especially at no risk. If your afraid of losing implants, don't fly with them. If you realize that implants give you an advantage and can further increase your effectiveness with boosters, more power to you, you are the 1%.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#42 - 2012-02-03 23:19:43 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Smart players should continue to have a competive edge, theres no reason for an "easy mode getting through the great gate camps" button. Especially at no risk. If your afraid of losing implants, don't fly with them. If you realize that implants give you an advantage and can further increase your effectiveness with boosters, more power to you, you are the 1%.

I appreciate your feedback. Your replies have a constructive feel.

I quoted just this section, to emphasize something. Smart, and cautious, players, are generally the same players.

This is not an easy mode, considering that pilots needing to get from point A to point B will not want to use a probe at all. It gives away to the gate camp their interest in passing, and alerts them to be ready for the actual ship to make an attempt.

A smart pilot would never want to warn a gate camp they were approaching. They might as well RSVP to the tackle ship waiting for them.

This is for the genuine scout. The pilot who does not need to pass, but has an interest in knowing if there is danger for his fleet.
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-02-03 23:51:08 UTC
Mary Annabelle wrote:
I appreciate your feedback. Your replies have a constructive feel.

I quoted just this section, to emphasize something. Smart, and cautious, players, are generally the same players.

This is not an easy mode, considering that pilots needing to get from point A to point B will not want to use a probe at all. It gives away to the gate camp their interest in passing, and alerts them to be ready for the actual ship to make an attempt.

A smart pilot would never want to warn a gate camp they were approaching. They might as well RSVP to the tackle ship waiting for them.

This is for the genuine scout. The pilot who does not need to pass, but has an interest in knowing if there is danger for his fleet.



Please consider though- that most gate camps have that solo dictor on one side, with the main gang on the other side.. or at least a scout of some sorts either off grid or at 0 on the gate... If I ever see anything at 0 on a gate, I just automatically assume the other side of it is screamingly hostile.

Either blitz it, or go around.

Also- if you jump/launch a probe through the gate, wouldn't it be permissable that there is a bit of latency when responding back to the ship, I mean the distance between you and the probe is lightyears.. it would also be safe to assume if you are controlling the probe, you are not controlling your ship (from a game design stance) and then would just alert the hostiles on the other side that you are temporarily immobile on the other side of the gate, thus free killmail anyway.

I understand the idea your trying to put forward, I'm just saying that this can be completely avoided with a bit of confidence and skill. The hardest thing to learn in EvE, regardless of however you play; is how to overcome that 'ohfux' and remain calm. That 1-3 seconds can mean everything, and I fully support that.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#44 - 2012-02-04 01:26:55 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Please consider though- that most gate camps have that solo dictor on one side, with the main gang on the other side.. or at least a scout of some sorts either off grid or at 0 on the gate... If I ever see anything at 0 on a gate, I just automatically assume the other side of it is screamingly hostile.

Either blitz it, or go around.

Also- if you jump/launch a probe through the gate, wouldn't it be permissable that there is a bit of latency when responding back to the ship, I mean the distance between you and the probe is lightyears.. it would also be safe to assume if you are controlling the probe, you are not controlling your ship (from a game design stance) and then would just alert the hostiles on the other side that you are temporarily immobile on the other side of the gate, thus free killmail anyway.

I understand the idea your trying to put forward, I'm just saying that this can be completely avoided with a bit of confidence and skill. The hardest thing to learn in EvE, regardless of however you play; is how to overcome that 'ohfux' and remain calm. That 1-3 seconds can mean everything, and I fully support that.

If there is actually anything so telltale as a ship at 0 on the gate, that is pretty obvious, don't need a probe.

Your feedback gave me an idea for some refinement:
Latency: ABSOLUTELY. It is entirely likely, that the only thing the probe will do, is auto navigate and attempt to return, the delayed feed you get ending in a still of the probes last transmission image. Whether it is because the probe was destroyed, or used the gate to return.

The immobile host ship, is indeed a factor. I emphasize the wise pilot will get safe and cloak as a precaution, before activating the probe.

I would suggest the probe not being controlled after gating, just sending the optical feed from the other side.

Possible Option: It would be practical for the probe to have three options from launch, like a type of autopilot choice.
1> Go through gate, and wait on other side. (Pilot is gambling the probe that nothing will be there, in the hopes of saving time and picking it up on that side, rather than waiting for the probe to fly back and return to host pilot system)
2> Go through gate, wait out gate cloak delay, and then return and gate back. (longest option, since pilot's name appears in local and gate fires on probe arrival, might trick an ambush into reacting by mistake)(also an option if the pilot expects to jump through, and resume direct control to retrieve the probe.)
3> Go through gate, immediately return and gate back. (Pilot compromise with time)
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#45 - 2012-02-04 06:34:38 UTC
I never understand threads like this, it's obviously not going to be implemented, I mean it's a radical game changing concept that CCP have never shown any inclination toward adding and is entirely redundant. Yet people put so much energy into crafting these threads anyway?

Then when shown, with varying levels of civility, across multiple pages the issues with their idea they completely ignore them.

I mean mary, you have been told now for three pages your idea is redundant, you've had it explained to you why and given you the lists of available options for scouting. Then people have pointed out that this renders a "careful" pilot too safe, and explained that someone using it would never be in danger. Your response? Some odd "launch options" and "latency", neither of which really have anything to do with risk or the inherent redundancy of your idea.

Anyway, not only is this scout ship covert ops, but given it's capacity to scout a system ahead it could easily be used to completely avoid inhabited systems. CCP have said they want to see more stuff exploding, your idea doesn't really seem to be toeing the party line.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Mag's
Azn Empire
#46 - 2012-02-04 08:49:03 UTC
There are many ways to gain intel atm and this simply avoids risk in any way, so it's a no thanks from me.

CCP actually likes gates, as it one area that initiates conflict. As they are now in the mind that life has become too easy in Eve and they want more things blowing up, I doubt they would even consider this.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#47 - 2012-02-04 17:17:40 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
CCP have said they want to see more stuff exploding, your idea doesn't really seem to be toeing the party line.

Try to keep in mind, the probe using ship would not be getting past the gate camp at all, using this technique. Avoiding risk to discover the camp is there in the first place should be something they do better than any other ship type.

Covert ops are among the most combat inept ships in the game. They pay for their ability to avoid risk, in this manner.
I could understand how other ships should pay for trying to do the covops job by needing to take this risk.

Now, if you want to get past the gate camp, I was not suggesting anything giving covops more advantage, although I feel they should always be better at this.
Mary Annabelle
Moonlit Bonsai
#48 - 2012-02-04 17:23:58 UTC
Mag's wrote:
There are many ways to gain intel atm and this simply avoids risk in any way, so it's a no thanks from me.

CCP actually likes gates, as it one area that initiates conflict. As they are now in the mind that life has become too easy in Eve and they want more things blowing up, I doubt they would even consider this.

CovOps are specific towards being least at risk for intel gathering. The ships exist with this as their primary reason.

Everything else should blow up more often than the invisible ships designed to avoid fights.

Gates are blind spots.

Blind spots are a conflict with intel gathering.

The intel gathering ship makes sense to have a unique ability to gather intel.
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