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L4 Navy Apoc- fit needs tweaking

Author
Nolerhn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-01-30 13:36:49 UTC
I've been using this ship for a bit while I decide between a few ships that I'd like to eventually mission in (nightmare/mach/paladin), but in the meantime, the fit I've been using needs some messing around with in order to clear missions faster. Here's what I use:

H

8x Mega Pulse Laser II

M

1x 100MN AB II
3x cap recharger II

L

4x mission specific hardener II
1x True Sansha Large repper
2x Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1x Tracking Enhancer II

Rigs
3x Large Auxiliary nano pump

Drones
5x hammerhead II
5x hobgoblin II

It's a pretty straight forward fit I suppose, but I want to get more out of it, however there's so many ways to go about doing that I'd like some input. I've considered dropping a hardener and putting another heatsink in, and dropping the AB to slot in a tracking computer, but I'm not sure. Any help would be appreciated. Also, I'm sure some would say that I'm over-tanked, which may be true, but I haven't been doing L4's for very long (less than a month) and all the tank is more for my personal security since the navy apoc is the most expensive ship I've bought to date.
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-30 15:04:12 UTC
First off, your fit is indeed over tanked but you already realized that and I think your reasoning behind that is solid. So in that case it is actually an already good fit and I wouldn’t do major changes, maybe a tracking comp instead of the ab, when missions don’t require gate travel.

But when l4s are not new to you anymore, you should definitely gank it out more. The navypoc is a great ship and I’ve also flown it for quite some time before the step up to nightmare and paladin. Anyways, that was the fit I ended up using most of the time:

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, pve]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener

100MN Afterburner II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Curator II x3
Hobgoblin II x5

the idea is that guns run without boosting. AB and repper has to be boosted if needed for longer periods.

have fun with you navypoc and fly save.
Nolerhn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-01-30 15:40:26 UTC
Wow, that's a pretty cool fit, I like it, though at this point in time I wouldn't be comfortable going into a L4 with a tank like that yet :P The curators are a interesting touch as well, I would have never thought to use sentries in this ship. I do have one question though, how often were you actually using multifrequency as opposed to scorch? The closer you are to NPC's you take such a noticeably more amount of damage that going in with that kind of tank would scare me. Or, is the gank on this fit to the point that this is a non issue, assuming you don't agro the whole room of course.

Also, how did this fit work for some of the more difficult missions for you, like ones that warp you into the middle of a large group of enemies? I'm terrible at remember mission names though, so I can't recall any specific one at the moment.

Other than those two things, I really like how this fit looks, I think I'll try to ease into something similar over time. Thanks for the input.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-30 17:52:39 UTC
If I went back to running lvl 4's in a navypoc, I'd look at doing something like this:

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, Pulsepoc]
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Ionic Field Projector I (or something else that takes 50 calibration)

The key here is the energy locus coordinator 2's. Each gives a 20% bonus to optimal range, which means that if your tracking computers are all scripted for speed you still have an optimal with conflag/multifrequency of 29km. The ionic field projector I stuck on because I couldn't think of anything else, and it helps a little if you fight serps w/ their damping.

Dps is 818 before drones with conflag loaded, 733 w/ navy multifreqency, and 584 w/ scorch (87+10km with all tracking computers scripted to speed, 100+19 with all 3 scripted to range). You have enough cap to run the guns w/ conflag loaded for 16 min, or permarun them with any other crystal., meaning the cap booster is there solely to run your tank. Fit drones to taste.

-Arazel
Logan230
Society of the Scruff
#5 - 2012-01-31 00:14:12 UTC
I'm using a Navy Apoc at the moment, and have great success with my fit. I think it is over tanked, but i like the idea of being able to respond to my oven going off and taking 2 minutes to go take care of it. But when it matters, it seems to melt stuff pretty well.

I've been using this for a while and havent needed to use TEs and such. On a personal level, I have never seen the need for them. If my guns cant hit it, then that is what drones are for, imo.

If someone wants to explain why my boat could benefit from some then please tell. :)

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, pve]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Centii A-type Magnetic Plating

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L / IN Standard L / Scorch L

Large Capacity Control Curcuit
Large Capacity Control Curcuit
Large Capacity Control Curcuit


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-31 01:18:36 UTC
I quite like using one or two range scripted TC's in the med slots. Make that MF reach out a bit further and to capitalise on the hull's Optimal Range bonus.

Never found tracking to be an issue with Mega Pulse II's, the only things to get near are elite frigates if you don't knob them up when they fly towards you and then you just release a flight of lights.
Nolerhn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-01-31 08:05:14 UTC
I'd like to thank everyone for their input, I've tweaked and tried my new fit out based on combination of all the suggested fits in this topic, and the results for misson times are quite nice I think. Here's what I came up with after all the advice:

H

8x Mega Pulse Laser II

M

1x 100MN AB II
2x cap recharger II
1x Tracking computer II

L

4x mission specific hardener II
1x True Sansha Large repper
2x Imperial Navy Heat Sink
1x Tracking Enhancer II

Rigs
1x Large energy locus coordinator II
2x Large CCC


Drones
5x hammerhead II
5x hobgoblin II

Ammo
Scorch
Imp. Navy multifreq
Tracking and optimal range scripts

As you can see, it didn't change much, but instead of using scorch full time, I added some more range to my guns and basically AB into navy multifrequency range, which is 28KM optimal + 14KM falloff with my skills. The added volley damage has really speed up mission times making the sacrifice of my 3x auxillary nanon pumps very worthwhile. As I get used to this ship more I'll probably drop one of my hardeners in order to fit another heat sink, but I'm liking what I have at the moment much more than my original fit. Thanks again for the advice everyone.
Tore Smith
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-31 11:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tore Smith
Nolerhn wrote:
The curators are a interesting touch as well, I would have never thought to use sentries in this ship.
Sentries are actually a really good idea on all mission ships that haven good range because they don’t require travel time. Ofc ships with a utility high slot for a drone link are best for that, because with the navypoc the sentries will only have a range of 57km with my skills. But still I like them much more than mediums or even heavies.

Nolerhn wrote:
I do have one question though, how often were you actually using multifrequency as opposed to scorch?
I actually change them quite often but this is no problem with lasers because it’s fast. Usually if a mission starts with rats far off I first pop all the frigs with scorch because most of the time you just 1shoot them. Then I work my way up- cruisers, bcs and last battle ships. That’s because the later have the highest hit points and I like them to be in range for mf to be effective.
Btw I group only 2 guns at a time so I have 4 groups to choose from. That way you have less over kill damage. If you’re really into effectiveness don’t group your guns at all.

Nolerhn wrote:
The closer you are to NPC's you take such a noticeably more amount of damage that going in with that kind of tank would scare me. Or, is the gank on this fit to the point that this is a non issue, assuming you don't agro the whole room of course.
That’s exactly the point. This is no afk setup and will require you to know the triggers as well as the distances you will start taking considerable damage. If a lot of heavy hitting, long range BSs are in a mission, the above mentioned order of attack changes ofc.

Nolerhn wrote:
Also, how did this fit work for some of the more difficult missions for you, like ones that warp you into the middle of a large group of enemies? I'm terrible at remember mission names though, so I can't recall any specific one at the moment.
It is true, you will have problems with such a fit in e.g. “worlds collide” or if you are doing Angel missions with a laser boat (at least with the harder ones). I indeed use laser ships only for Sansha, Blood, Merc and Drone rats and Kronos or Mach for the rest. Then I never have a problem because rats die very quickly and most of the time you don’t even have to activate the repper. If you don’t have that kind of luxury [yet ;-)], you will have to adapt your tank accordingly. But that will be no problem after a while.

Nolerhn wrote:
Other than those two things, I really like how this fit looks, I think I'll try to ease into something similar over time. Thanks for the input.
Thanks and I really recommend training those few Caldari ship skills, so you can hop into a nightmare later on. You will have even more damage and more utility as well.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-31 21:08:19 UTC
Oh, in my alt's apoc I went with Tachs, fitting mods to fit them, and a cap booster. You don't need much tank for things at 50-60km.