EVE General Discussion

that was established when I started replying to your posts.

I dont like getting wet, I guess.



http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12291174 (Likley 10:1 ratio of assest discrepancy, with attempts to improve defence)

Imo, hulk has attempted to compromise for defence, attackers significantly undervalued by comparison.



You havent answered the question. Avoidance.


tbc ....

Hence why I'd advocated in my original post the importance to ensure that the conflict mechanics can improve those methods. Quoting out of context much, or as usual miss representing posts with only part quotes?

I partly like this conversation,
although i think you should both scratch it all
and restart by rephrasing what you were talking about,
simply to remove the "you didn't answer my questions".

Why restart ? Because it's only getting deeper and deeper,
more and more complicated, so a fresh start via simple means is needed.
That is ... if anybody here actually WANTS to talk about it, instead of just throwing
opinions at one another.

That said ... i believe you guys are wasting your time.
Get abstract, reduce the information of what's going on and who's participating
and then check the options.

There's no way to educate people by force.
Those who want to be educated, will get educated.
Those who don't ... won't.
That's a fact and we can split most players into these two categories.

-> One can't force people into getting smarter.

I've met quite a few people who've spent their first weeks only reading up,
but there seem to be way more people not doing that ... and they can't be forced to do it.

There are those who run the tutorials (i never did), but these can't do very much either,
because there's far more knowledge about EvE out there than could be offered by any tutorials ever.

As Tippia said, there's a lack of responsibility ... and it's the lack of acknowledging that ...
... "it's my fault if i die, i just don't know that i don't have enough information at hand to stay alive" ...
... which can be reduced to "it's my fault", which is the hardest part for most of the morons out there.

Hence, the only thing that can be done is to try and weed out all those who don't "fit" into EvE ...
... preferably as soon as possible ... to actually improve the overall experience for everybody.

Accepting the people who don't "get" the game only makes the game worse.
It fills the forums up with more threads about whining people who can't deal with (eve) reality ...
... such as incursion-whiners whining about people who legitimately enter it and kill the mom as soon as it pops up ...
... or people whining about (ninja) salvagers "stealing" their salvage ... hauler pilots whining about getting popped ...
... or people whining about afk-cloakers ... etc etc etc ...

Wow, this list really keeps on going ........


Now, those who come up with "don't force onto others how you play your game" or "i play the way i want to" ...
Well ... you may play as you want, but the rules of the game are clearly stated and YOU have to obey them !

Also ... i'd be happy about more information to come down further to the point,
which i believe is: People can't be forced to take responsibility.

Also also ... i have a flu and i have to sneeze every five minutes, so i may have missed plenty.

So? Why is that a problem? Also, no. That was a very poor fit for defence.
…except that it wasn't a question — it was a statement trying to impose a position on me that I have never taken. I didn't provide an answer — I provided a rebuttal, explaining that your statement was a straw man.
It's not so much a balance as a dynamic system that seeks an equilibrium. If it becomes static, it becomes boring, and more to the point: if the supply vastly outpaces the demand, it just hurts the industrialists. Of course I'm only arguing from one side: mine. The answer cannot be made with a simple yes or no because of the dynamics. Most likely, no, it wouldn't — the margins would be nil and there is no profit in trying to compete over them. It would just stack up in ever-expanding backlog sell orders that never get fulfilled. That is not competition — that's just stagnation. We've seen this happen before and it didn't generate any competition then either.

Also, going by the way many carbears argue, there would most certainly be a supply without a demand — just look at all the demands for buffed mining ability.
It fully answers the question: your question rests on faulty suppositions and thus cannot be answered meaningfully.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet (Y/N)?

Loaded question, false dichotomy, (another) straw man, causal oversimplification, beggin the question… pick your fallacy.
The context is that you're trying to infer that ganking is harmful. I'm rejecting that supposition and pointing out that, the way the EVE economy works, destruction of assets is pretty much always beneficial and that ganking in particular is pretty much required due to the kind of destruction it enables.

I see a guy who tries to use his brains to survive and who acknowledges that he CAN die,
but he can TRY to avoid it ... and i see people coming telling him that he's wrong,
simply because they don't have the information that he has.

There is not an imbalance in favor of gankers. There are more than enough tools to stop yourself from getting ganked, the fact that people chose not to use them is not an argument for further nerfs to pirates.

It seems like you're putting more effort into complaining than it would take to actually put some tank on your haulers, and maybe use a Blockade Runner, Orca or Freighter to move the high-value stuff, and fly defensively.

I regularly move high value cargoes through hi-sec, and I have never, ever been ganked in hi-sec, not even once in over 5 years. For the simple reason that when I'm carrying said high value cargo, I fly in exactly the same way as I do in 0.0 or lo-sec: I assume everyone in local is hostile unless I know for sure they aren't, and will, given the chance, kill me and take my stuff. I fly, fit and choose my ships accordingly.

So far it has worked flawlessly.

I've had some pretty hairy escapes, like when I didn't notice that we had a wardec, and I jumped an Iteron V full of T2 ships and mods into a system with 5 WTs in, but even then I managed to get my ship and cargo out intact.

Perhaps you should try this method before dismissing it out of hand. It really does have its charms: desperately maneuvering a cloaked Ity V slowly further and further from the gate while 5 hostiles were trying to decloak me, and trying to work out in my head "how far away from a Taranis does a cloaked, fully expanded iteron have to be before it's safe to decloak and warp?" was an incredibly tense and thrilling experience that lasted what seemed like hours. I didn't get any KMs from it, but in a sense you could say I won a 1v5, and afterwards I was pretty wrung out, let me tell you!




PS The answer is 80Km.

This exact same thread was alive and well as far back as 2007 to my certain memory, and in all likelihood, much further back.

Simple effective way to avoid can flipping is to not use cans. Worked for me in the past.

If people insist on solo mining using cans then make sure it's in a quiet system. Problem with quiet systems though is the price you will get for the ore is lower than busier systems. Might be better to just keep hauling it back to the station each time.

Alternatively, a second account, one hauling one mining.





Is it really putting people off of the game? I don't see any real evidence of this.

I've just got back yesterday, from about 2 months of playing Skyrim fairly solidly, but Skyrim just does not quite deliver what I Iook for in a game.

On returning last evening (GMT) I was surprised to see that the online account figure was over 50,000. So again it does not seem to be putting people off.

As long as the CCP don't jump on the same ban wagon that most MMOs have done, then it's a game I'm likely to return to if I do leave for awhile.

Main thing I see as putting any new players off, is the amount of time it takes to train up to do something more useful. Of course you could increase your training by buying and selling PLEX then buy some +4 implants. But most people new won't want to buy PLEX as they've not decided if they like the game enough by then.


Before anyone says 'post with your main' this is my main as from last evening.