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Can flippers and gankers in High sec problem
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2012-01-30 00:17:48 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
I don't see a problem with flippers... maybe thats because I learned the first time it happened not to shoot/take from the can.


And for the record, when I was a noob I didn't jetcan mine after the first incident... I flew back and forth in my little frigate. Aptly named the Tormentor.



When i was a noob i learned that too. But when we both were noobs can flippers as it seems wasn't that much of a problem. Today is a whole different story. If you not jetcan they just fly in and bump you interfering with your activities. At least that what i hear'd from people in High sec. I'm not in High and not imagining myself there. But i know a few noob corps run by friends. It's worse then it was when i was noob.


It is exactly the same from when I first started mining in my ibis for a domi mothership.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-01-30 00:18:19 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
OP failed to realise (we all did in the beginning, guess what; we're still here) that EVE is a harsh PVP environment which manifests itself in many different ways. If you had several can flippers on the same day don't you think said newbies should THINK about what they're doing and what they should be doing differently? It's not very difficult to ask in rookie/help chat what can be done about it, LEARN what can be done about is and create some teamwork.

In other words, learn from it, deal with it and if you don't or can't adapt, get out.




Very creative and thinking post. Shows so much intellect.

EVE is by far not harsh and totally not PVP environment. EVE is a walk in the park with BLOBS that by mistake or intention somehow called PVP. Just take a good look around. The rest not deserve any comment.

Don't let them fly safe!
Liam Mirren
#23 - 2012-01-30 00:19:33 UTC
Renarla wrote:
Mine into secure cans. Problem solved.

Next!


Clearly, using a secure container and then have one of the newbies do the hauling is not the way to go. Don't you realise that it's better to have 6 newbies mine rather than 5 while 1 is hauling? Teamwork? Logic? Effort? What are those filthy words!

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Alex Sinai
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-01-30 00:23:31 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Renarla wrote:
Mine into secure cans. Problem solved.

Next!


Clearly, using a secure container and then have one of the newbies do the hauling is not the way to go. Don't you realise that it's better to have 6 newbies mine rather than 5 while 1 is hauling? Teamwork? Logic? Effort? What are those filthy words!


Again for the last time. Not the point of the post.

Point of the post: Want more players in? Make it fun for new players. Not angry, not hard work for them. Or keep your playerbase at the very slowly rising or sometimes sharply falling levels. People play games to have fun. As far as game definition goes.

Don't let them fly safe!
Liam Mirren
#25 - 2012-01-30 00:23:36 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
OP failed to realise (we all did in the beginning, guess what; we're still here) that EVE is a harsh PVP environment which manifests itself in many different ways. If you had several can flippers on the same day don't you think said newbies should THINK about what they're doing and what they should be doing differently? It's not very difficult to ask in rookie/help chat what can be done about it, LEARN what can be done about is and create some teamwork.

In other words, learn from it, deal with it and if you don't or can't adapt, get out.




Very creative and thinking post. Shows so much intellect.

EVE is by far not harsh and totally not PVP environment. EVE is a walk in the park with BLOBS that by mistake or intention somehow called PVP. Just take a good look around. The rest not deserve any comment.


So that's why you keep losing your lol ships to 1-2 people in pvp?

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-30 00:27:15 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
So, CCP wants to bring in more players in but on the other side does everything possible to keep them out.

Just a short story:

A relatively new player with a few months in EVE with not a bad ship and few totally fresh players all in High sec. A can flipper shows up and starts flying around bumping the newbies (5th or 7th flipper for the day for them). The one with not bad ship comes in so flipper warps out. Newbie picks up ore from the can (stupid move but hey, its a newbie and he have tons of things to learn so he forgets some) and moments later a nice fleet of can flipper with a much better ship and friends arrive. Of course all get owned. And all quit the game because they are sick and tired of can flippers, gankers and other sh*t.

CCP you want more players? Well may be instead of spending tons of money on useless advertisements you think about changing some mechanics of your own game so that people wont quit because your mechanics so flawed for new players and allow the exploits by some terribly bored vets who sit in their Titans and create alts out of boredom to go get their kicks on new players and then complain that there's not enough influx of players in the game.

I do understand an attempt to push players to other then High sectors. But with recent "buff to gankers" strategy all you do is pushing them out of the game.



if they quit over this, it was inevitable that they would quit eventually anyway.


if you do stupid ****, bad things happen to you in eve.


If they're new, they need to realize they're new, and ask questions before they do ****.


this is working as intended. Eve either makes you stronger or drives you off. It's your choice, though.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#27 - 2012-01-30 00:27:37 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:


Again for the last time. Not the point of the post.

Point of the post: Want more players in? Make it fun for new players. Not angry, not hard work for them. Or keep your playerbase at the very slowly rising or sometimes sharply falling levels. People play games to have fun. As far as game definition goes.


EvE has never done anything but grow year on year so CCP does not need to gut its core gameplay to get more numbers in.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#28 - 2012-01-30 00:31:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:


All noobs can do effectively is "carebear". You cant take them to W-Space or Null right away. They need skill books, they want to stay close to their starting locations, they want to wander around. And they not used to idea that ship is expendable. And they dont like that idea. It takes some time for them to get used to it and gain experience. All what flippers and gankers effectively do is making people angry and out of the game.



Yes you can.


I beg to differ. We had a 20 million Sp requirement on our Wormhole Corp for a reason. Take a Newb into an environment like that, and the best they can hope for is waiting until they can train up Gas-mining, mining, or scanning effectively enough to do something with it. Even then, it's not going to happen overnight, and they are still going to be sitting on their arses for the most part.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2012-01-30 00:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Alex Sinai wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

And looking for sympathy on these Forums is a Fool's Errand.



Would you please stop editing your posts several times after you posted them? Thanks.




No.

MAN...do YOU EVER have issues. I mean, am I supposed to say, "Yes SIR, dearest Commander, dear ?

Are you really cut out for this game ?????


(and I can't miss the irony in above quotage)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#30 - 2012-01-30 00:34:17 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:

I beg to differ. We had a 20 million Sp requirement on our Wormhole Corp for a reason. Take a Newb into an environment like that, and the best they can hope for is waiting until they can train up Gas-mining, mining, or scanning effectively enough to do something with it. Even then, it's not going to happen overnight, and they are still going to be sitting on their arses for the most part.


This
Umega
Solis Mensa
#31 - 2012-01-30 00:34:24 UTC
Just about ever MMO ends up having their sub-base decrease and wane over the years. Of course with varies spikes here and there for different reasons like expansions, good patches, sub to F2P/P2W.. then go back to a downward slope.

EVE going on.. 9ish years now? Has been able to break out of that norm and has had consistent growth over its lifetime. Excluding the shitstorm of '11.. which was an anom in the sense it was a cocktail of varies things hitting the fan at the same time, brought about in a mixture of CCP's fault with a couple of things, player expectations too high or misdirected/understood, and just a broken/manipulated media frenzy.

If EVE were to ever go down the 'entitlement fan club' of needing a snuggie and a hug for every miss-step a player takes themselves, allowing a safety net to catch them and put them back on their feet again with no penality to that player.. this game will die. All the 'vets' will likely lose interest and leave. PvP would become stagnant, the market would become stagnant. And all the people wanting to mind their own business and be left alone.. would end up bored as they do the same PvE with 100% safety over and over.. until it becomes boring and something else more exciting and new on the horizon comes out to play. Happens to every other MMO..

Hasn't happened to this one.

I'll be damned if I am going to watch some of you selfish pricks try to completely flip this game into something it isn't, because you have some weird demented right to believe it should be.. when you can do what I did, and go find the game that fits the style you want.

I fully welcome more people.. more more people bring them on. But those people best get this is EVE.. it isn't like any of the other MMOs they are used, they need to accept that or find something else.

'Vets' don't dislike new people. I'd say from personal perspective.. 'vets' hate stupidity that has nothing to do with just being a fresh newb, and people that are trying to completely change the landscape of EVE, because the game doesn't suit their style.

I wish I could walk into some of your homes.. drop a deuce right on your wall, and tell you 'It looks better this way cause I said so'.

 Ume-Pro Studios
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#32 - 2012-01-30 00:40:31 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:


If they log in and get anger, bothered and no fun, they leave. As simple as that. No use for any backbones whatsoever here. Its a game.



Sometimes WEEKS are no fun in EVE, but I'M STILL HERE. And so are many others.

In fact all last SUMMER was miserable.

This is all just one big questionable eye-roll.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#33 - 2012-01-30 00:42:42 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:
Liam Mirren wrote:
Renarla wrote:
Mine into secure cans. Problem solved.

Next!


Clearly, using a secure container and then have one of the newbies do the hauling is not the way to go. Don't you realise that it's better to have 6 newbies mine rather than 5 while 1 is hauling? Teamwork? Logic? Effort? What are those filthy words!


Again for the last time. Not the point of the post.

Point of the post: Want more players in? Make it fun for new players. Not angry, not hard work for them. Or keep your playerbase at the very slowly rising or sometimes sharply falling levels. People play games to have fun. As far as game definition goes.



We don't need new players that just want to change the game to suit themselves and whine about everything that goes wrong. We need players with some backbone, who can see a mistake made, learn from it and get on with enjoying the game. I made my share of mistakes in the first month or so, I still do, but if you never make mistakes you never learn as much.

Fun is objective, I find the game fun because you set your own goals and the game has challenges to overcome that mean you need your wits about you. I don't find the game fun when it's so safe that I don't have to worry what might happen next. My first few months of the game were spent in a large corp that were involved in wars and it was quite a blast to be prey to much more experienced players, the challenge of learning how to evade them and learning to not panic in combat were what made the game fun.

Not sure how you define fun, but I've done mining and I needed to do something a bit more exciting afterwards to have some fun.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#34 - 2012-01-30 00:42:45 UTC
I think most will let the slow fall behind a wash out, who needs them if they can't make there own way. The mechanics are fine you steel, you can get shot. Don't want stuff stolen lock it up. Can't use team work in a MMORPG go back to minecraft and build your pathetic needles can't be destroyed crap.

GAME IS GRIM AND DARK, OH NO AZZ TO MUCH FOR TEH KIDZ AND NOOBZ
WE MUST MAKE HI-SEC SAFE AND PLAYER VS PLAYER INTERACTION SHOULD NEVER BE ALOWED

OH WAIT YOUR A TROLL


1.2/10

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#35 - 2012-01-30 00:43:03 UTC
Alex Sinai wrote:


EVE is by far not harsh and totally not PVP environment. EVE is a walk in the park with BLOBS that by mistake or intention somehow called PVP. Just take a good look around. The rest not deserve any comment.



Are you playing EVE ??? Check your start icon. You were playing something else........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Liam Mirren
#36 - 2012-01-30 00:45:41 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:


EVE is by far not harsh and totally not PVP environment. EVE is a walk in the park with BLOBS that by mistake or intention somehow called PVP. Just take a good look around. The rest not deserve any comment.



Are you playing EVE ??? Check your start icon. You were playing something else........


He does, but he's not very good at it.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#37 - 2012-01-30 00:46:18 UTC
Umega wrote:
Just about ever MMO ends up having their sub-base decrease and wane over the years. Of course with varies spikes here and there for different reasons like expansions, good patches, sub to F2P/P2W.. then go back to a downward slope.

EVE going on.. 9ish years now? Has been able to break out of that norm and has had consistent growth over its lifetime. Excluding the shitstorm of '11.. which was an anom in the sense it was a cocktail of varies things hitting the fan at the same time, brought about in a mixture of CCP's fault with a couple of things, player expectations too high or misdirected/understood, and just a broken/manipulated media frenzy.

If EVE were to ever go down the 'entitlement fan club' of needing a snuggie and a hug for every miss-step a player takes themselves, allowing a safety net to catch them and put them back on their feet again with no penality to that player.. this game will die. All the 'vets' will likely lose interest and leave. PvP would become stagnant, the market would become stagnant. And all the people wanting to mind their own business and be left alone.. would end up bored as they do the same PvE with 100% safety over and over.. until it becomes boring and something else more exciting and new on the horizon comes out to play. Happens to every other MMO..

Hasn't happened to this one.

I'll be damned if I am going to watch some of you selfish pricks try to completely flip this game into something it isn't, because you have some weird demented right to believe it should be.. when you can do what I did, and go find the game that fits the style you want.

I fully welcome more people.. more more people bring them on. But those people best get this is EVE.. it isn't like any of the other MMOs they are used, they need to accept that or find something else.

'Vets' don't dislike new people. I'd say from personal perspective.. 'vets' hate stupidity that has nothing to do with just being a fresh newb, and people that are trying to completely change the landscape of EVE, because the game doesn't suit their style.

I wish I could walk into some of your homes.. drop a deuce right on your wall, and tell you 'It looks better this way cause I said so'.


As Umega said, we don't dislike new players, I've recently taken in a small group of new players to our corp to act as mentor and give them a first step into the game. We dislike the entitlement crowd that thinks they should have the game changed because they pay a sub.

Well here's a newsflash: we pay our sub too. Think about it.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#38 - 2012-01-30 00:57:00 UTC
It is many moons since I was last mining in hi-sec (perfect hulk pilot) but still not so long that I don't remember my first encounter with can-flippers and ore thieves. I've read the thread and I've noted the usual not-so-helpful-but-couldn't-care-less-noob comments and advice, advice which often is not so practical to a fresh player.

I remember the first encounter, and getting so mad at the audacity of that thief who suddenly went flashy-red after stealing my hard earned veldspar, that despite it being quite apparent to me visually that his ship was a hell of a lot bigger than mine, I couldn't resist firing off a volley of my civilian blasters.

I don’t think they even hit.

Warping back to the station in my pod I was ready to rage quit, but here is my point: that lesson was the first in a very long line of painful lessons on how to play Eve. If your friends felt they had to quit at the first hurdle, then perhaps it was for the best, as it was only going to go downhill from there.....

Dry your eyes, keep your chin up, and fly safe....

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#39 - 2012-01-30 00:57:24 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alex Sinai wrote:


EVE is by far not harsh and totally not PVP environment. EVE is a walk in the park with BLOBS that by mistake or intention somehow called PVP. Just take a good look around. The rest not deserve any comment.



Are you playing EVE ??? Check your start icon. You were playing something else........


He does, but he's not very good at it.


Seriously. Sure loses a LOT of Faction Fits. Check out that Loki.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#40 - 2012-01-30 01:02:54 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:


He does, but he's not very good at it.



Shocked
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)