These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Afk mining what's the beef?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#41 - 2012-01-29 18:29:18 UTC
Xanatia wrote:
During one of the hulkageddons (i'd neglected to pay attention to the forums) my alt got ganked in her hulk by a swarm of thrashers. i was a mite annoyed, and the perpetrators thought it was terribly amusing.

Now, hulkageddon usually brings out the kinds of people who you wouldn't usually associate with suicide ganking, you know, mission runners, some bored anti pirates and whatnot. so, i waited a week or so, tracked their movements, discovered that all of them were pretty much carebears who liked to run missions in their pimped out CNR's and golems all day, every day.

So, i ganked every single one of them in their missions, got quite a bit of nice loot as well. navy launchers, gist XL shield boosters, you know the types of things you find on pimped up mission ships.

I must say, they were NOT amused, they flamed me, threatened to wardec me (they didn't) and all that, their tears were delicious, i must say.

the moral of the story: Don't get mad, get even


One of the most wonderful things I've ever read in forums. Beautiful.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#42 - 2012-01-29 18:43:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
A good killmail, forum tears and even tears in local make a ganker's day.

So does the feeling of being shredded by CONCORD, I hear.
Maxious wrote:
But if people have a problem with afk in general then whats next to go? Afk hauling? Afk Station sitting?

AFK hauling is already "gone" by some measure. I think people scan ships that pass by and decide if they want to gank em or not (you also get loot, have a friend help with that).

AFK station sitting not likely unless we can shoot people who are docked.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#43 - 2012-01-29 18:48:35 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Maxious wrote:
But if people have a problem with afk in general then whats next to go? Afk hauling? Afk Station sitting?

AFK hauling is already "gone" by some measure. I think people scan ships that pass by and decide if they want to gank em or not (you also get loot, have a friend help with that).

AFK station sitting not likely unless we can shoot people who are docked.



I know tons of pilots who AFK haul. They simply try to make the cost of the gank unacceptable by carrying below a specific ISK threshold in cargo. The simple fact is that people are going to AFK or semi-AFK many things in eve because so many aspects of Eve are mind numbingly boring. I am constantly amazed at how much I love this game considering how bad a lot of the game play is. I think it may be the same system that applies to Star Wars movies; love the entirety of the thing but find a lot of the specifics pathetic.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2012-01-29 18:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Well I think one can fit a tank to the mining barge, but it reduces your ability to hold ore to a specific threshold (no cargo expanders).

Xanatia wrote:
So, i ganked every single one of them in their missions, got quite a bit of nice loot as well. navy launchers, gist XL shield boosters, you know the types of things you find on pimped up mission ships.

I must say, they were NOT amused, they flamed me, threatened to wardec me (they didn't) and all that, their tears were delicious, i must say.

the moral of the story: Don't get mad, get even

That is beautiful.
Mr Epeen wrote:
You make your own game as do all the other subscribers (except the little bees who are too stupid to do anything but what they are told to do).

Wait, what? You think we have to be ordered on every gatecamp or frigate roam? Gate camping is like mining, but with killmails and possibly tears at the end of it.

Though on the subject of ganking, as was seen in the EVE24 release, we were told to get a bunch of Tornados (on new alts if handy). Probably to gank something hilarious, but it seems the target gets a small reprieve for now due to having to play Titans Online.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#45 - 2012-01-29 19:02:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Well I think once can fit a tank to the mining barge, but it reduces your ability to hold ore to a specific threshold (no cargo expanders).


The Hulk can carry a substantial tank with good resists. A couple of times while semi-afk mining in HiSec I have glanced back from checking market, chatting, watching stuff online, etc... to find my shield rebuilding and pilots (both times it was pilots from Test or Goons) laughing their asses off in local as they orbited those oh' so protective little white plus signs, their gank having failed spectacularly. I'll also mention that both times the would be gankers where fun to shoot the **** with and then went about their business, I assume to gank other ships. No tears exchanged, no ore lost. However yes, you do lose a few m3 per trip but given the 150 million plus price of a hulk a worthy trade off in my opinion.

This is not to state that a dedicated blaster boat will not deal with you soundly when properly fitted :)
Maxious
Dragon Knights of EvE
#46 - 2012-01-29 19:15:53 UTC
Xanatia wrote:
During one of the hulkageddons (i'd neglected to pay attention to the forums) my alt got ganked in her hulk by a swarm of thrashers. i was a mite annoyed, and the perpetrators thought it was terribly amusing.

Now, hulkageddon usually brings out the kinds of people who you wouldn't usually associate with suicide ganking, you know, mission runners, some bored anti pirates and whatnot. so, i waited a week or so, tracked their movements, discovered that all of them were pretty much carebears who liked to run missions in their pimped out CNR's and golems all day, every day.

So, i ganked every single one of them in their missions, got quite a bit of nice loot as well. navy launchers, gist XL shield boosters, you know the types of things you find on pimped up mission ships.

I must say, they were NOT amused, they flamed me, threatened to wardec me (they didn't) and all that, their tears were delicious, i must say.

the moral of the story: Don't get mad, get even

Yay well done. I congrats you. That's one for the miners. I may take a leaf out of your book then. I'm a firm believer in making people pay for their actions. I don't care about being wardec at the moment. I'm in a dead corp and leaving it tomorrow to go back to newb corp. been a solo flyer for many years and find that corps are more trouble than their worth
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#47 - 2012-01-29 19:21:42 UTC
Maxious wrote:
Yay well done. I congrats you. That's one for the miners. I may take a leaf out of your book then. I'm a firm believer in making people pay for their actions. I don't care about being wardec at the moment. I'm in a dead corp and leaving it tomorrow to go back to newb corp. been a solo flyer for many years and find that corps are more trouble than their worth


NO! Don't go back to an NPC corp, I beg of you sir. The packing of NPC corp warehouses with player pods is one of the main reasons that miners have such a poor voice in Eve. While in one you are incapable of creating flourishing industrial mechanisms since the corp is unable to support it. They encourage solo play and take advantage of the typical industrialists tendency to simply dual box and "play with themselves" instead of others. Take you voice and put it into a player corp or create one. NPC corps in my opinion are one of the cancers that keep HiSec from being as vital and dynamic as it could be.
Elessa Enaka
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-01-29 19:53:29 UTC
Raiz Nhell wrote:
Hopefully the gankers gpu can't handle the awesomeness of my disintegration and his box melts down.....


I lol'd

Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats....
Maxious
Dragon Knights of EvE
#49 - 2012-01-29 20:01:07 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Maxious wrote:
Yay well done. I congrats you. That's one for the miners. I may take a leaf out of your book then. I'm a firm believer in making people pay for their actions. I don't care about being wardec at the moment. I'm in a dead corp and leaving it tomorrow to go back to newb corp. been a solo flyer for many years and find that corps are more trouble than their worth


NO! Don't go back to an NPC corp, I beg of you sir. The packing of NPC corp warehouses with player pods is one of the main reasons that miners have such a poor voice in Eve. While in one you are incapable of creating flourishing industrial mechanisms since the corp is unable to support it. They encourage solo play and take advantage of the typical industrialists tendency to simply dual box and "play with themselves" instead of others. Take you voice and put it into a player corp or create one. NPC corps in my opinion are one of the cancers that keep HiSec from being as vital and dynamic as it could be.


I'm not sure I fully understand. I do have an industry site set up. I mass produce about 1000 shuttles a month and sell them at market rates to combat scammers who want to sell them for awful prices. I beleve that if a person wants a shuttle then they should be able to get one easly and not pay over the top for them. So I flood the market with them. Been solo flying for years now because mostly when I get in a corp they mostly just get wardec. My ideal corp would be a non pvp corp that's mostly galeten, from England and run mining ops and level 4 missions every day. And above all not get nostied enough to get wardec. I think I have a lot of skills to bring a corp. mining director level 5. Fleet command 4. Scrap mettle 4 and most ore processing 4 or 5. Just need some isk for an orca and I'll boost the mining op to no end
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#50 - 2012-01-29 20:25:04 UTC
I was not referring specifically to how much player's manufacture, I am sure your output is admirable. I meant that until industrialists get used to wardecs (so many ways to deal with them) get used to being social, to demanding their place in eve with a loud voice, they will not be taken seriously. If wardec'd fight, hire mercs, have mining sites set up in the far corners of empire space so that they have to travel to get you, mine in grav sites... the possibilities are endless. Of course keep your research wing in a separate corp.

I have found except for those damn professional and damn effective losec pirate bastards who are too damn good at what they do, most non merc or nonprofessional war dec corps will wander away to easier targets after a week but that is for another thread.

Take your skills and organize the masses.
Xanatia
Vengeance Imperium
#51 - 2012-01-29 20:55:45 UTC
It may be a little off the original topic but: the problem with industry, and industrial players is that when they are fairly new, they lack the skillset to fight anyone who wardecs them, or griefs them. i've seen them try, and often with spirit, but it usually ends up with them losing ships, implants, and the 'griefers' having a laugh at their expense.

Wardecs by smaller 'pvp' corps against larger 'industrial' corps are simply a way for the 'elite pvpers' to pad their killboards, and it doesn't suprise me in the least when players go back to NPC corps.

Indi ships are also terribly weak, now, while people might balk at this, i've recently been playing pirates of te burning sea (quite fun) and a 'merchant' ship (indiaman) in that game can be a handful for almost any pure military ship. if indi ships coud fight back, or were tougher, or SOMETHING, industrialsts wouldn't be such soft targets

In order to turn the tables, you need to have experience yourself, i'm fortunate in that the thing i wanted to do most when i started was to be a pirate, and i was quite good at it, i then decided to be a mercenary, i was quite good at that too. nullsec, been there, done that, now i'm branching into industry, trading and all that. its very interesting, but i'm in the very fortunate position that my alt and i can take care of ourselves.

I'm also looking for a nice friendly indi corp to take me under their wing, mail me in game Cool
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#52 - 2012-01-29 21:00:40 UTC
Xanatia wrote:
It may be a little off the original topic but: the problem with industry, and industrial players is that when they are fairly new, they lack the skillset to fight anyone who wardecs them, or griefs them. i've seen them try, and often with spirit, but it usually ends up with them losing ships, implants, and the 'griefers' having a laugh at their expense.

Wardecs by smaller 'pvp' corps against larger 'industrial' corps are simply a way for the 'elite pvpers' to pad their killboards, and it doesn't suprise me in the least when players go back to NPC corps.

Indi ships are also terribly weak, now, while people might balk at this, i've recently been playing pirates of te burning sea (quite fun) and a 'merchant' ship (indiaman) in that game can be a handful for almost any pure military ship. if indi ships coud fight back, or were tougher, or SOMETHING, industrialsts wouldn't be such soft targets

In order to turn the tables, you need to have experience yourself, i'm fortunate in that the thing i wanted to do most when i started was to be a pirate, and i was quite good at it, i then decided to be a mercenary, i was quite good at that too. nullsec, been there, done that, now i'm branching into industry, trading and all that. its very interesting, but i'm in the very fortunate position that my alt and i can take care of ourselves.

I'm also looking for a nice friendly indi corp to take me under their wing, mail me in game Cool


All good points I would agree with. I do think most mining ships need a buff as to take several alphas before succumbing. They are supposed to be for deep space work so you would think they would be built to do so. This is turn would force more pirate/griefer cooperation.

I think most players however have no clue to begin with which is why I think NPC corps should be learning corps from which players migrate to player corporations. They gain experience from those players who run the corps. They gain defenses from those mercs hired to fight their wardecs, etc... The more I look at NPC corps the more they seem to be a speed bump in players getting a full Eve experience.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2012-01-29 21:06:32 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:

All good points I would agree with. I do think most mining ships need a buff as to take several alphas before succumbing. They are supposed to be for deep space work so you would think they would be built to do so. This is turn would force more pirate/griefer cooperation.

I think most players however have no clue to begin with which is why I think NPC corps should be learning corps from which players migrate to player corporations. They gain experience from those players who run the corps. They gain defenses from those mercs hired to fight their wardecs, etc... The more I look at NPC corps the more they seem to be a speed bump in players getting a full Eve experience.


Hulks can take a tempests alpha.
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-01-29 21:08:28 UTC
Nothing is wrong with AFK mining as long as you are not a bot.

The only thing that's wrong is that AFK miners/haulers/mission runners aren't paying attention to what they are doing and are vulnerable to being suicide ganked. Then they come onto the forums and complain that they just got suicide ganked. They demand suicide ganking be deemed an exploit. This makes people mad because the forums are full of suicide gankers (as they love the tears) and everybody else just hates people whining about game mechanics.
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#55 - 2012-01-29 21:12:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:

All good points I would agree with. I do think most mining ships need a buff as to take several alphas before succumbing. They are supposed to be for deep space work so you would think they would be built to do so. This is turn would force more pirate/griefer cooperation.

I think most players however have no clue to begin with which is why I think NPC corps should be learning corps from which players migrate to player corporations. They gain experience from those players who run the corps. They gain defenses from those mercs hired to fight their wardecs, etc... The more I look at NPC corps the more they seem to be a speed bump in players getting a full Eve experience.


Hulks can take a tempests alpha.


Yes, the Hulk can be a beast. I would propose however buffing the lower tier mining ships a bit so that it's a tad bit harder to pick off the low lying fruit or giving them a boost if in fleets, sort of a work/gang bonus. I am partial to the idea of packs of pirates instead of the lone terrors that we saw so much of during the Ice Interdiction.
W1rlW1nd
WirlWind
#56 - 2012-01-29 21:15:42 UTC
If you are at your keyboard, then you are not AFK.

Doesn't change if you chat or browse interwebs at same time as playing. People do all that at the same time as any other activities in game.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#57 - 2012-01-29 21:19:08 UTC
My problem with AFK mining: when the afk miners whine about getting ganked.


I have no problem with it, as long as those doing it accept the potential consequences.

Usually, though, they don't.
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#58 - 2012-01-29 21:21:28 UTC
W1rlW1nd wrote:
If you are at your keyboard, then you are not AFK.

Doesn't change if you chat or browse interwebs at same time as playing. People do all that at the same time as any other activities in game.






As I posted earlier I think the AFK argument is simply mouth breather justifications for callous behavior and billboard padding. Since ganking most industrials takes no skill it is not worthy of boasting or reward outside of wardecs and roleplaying. Thus to justify the preoccupation with this form of pvp it is given a "moral" framework and the blame is transferred to the victim.

If it is just fun then people who take part should just label it as such and stop with all the other nonsense about AFK miners and bots and so on.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2012-01-29 21:27:43 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:


Yes, the Hulk can be a beast. I would propose however buffing the lower tier mining ships a bit so that it's a tad bit harder to pick off the low lying fruit or giving them a boost if in fleets, sort of a work/gang bonus. I am partial to the idea of packs of pirates instead of the lone terrors that we saw so much of during the Ice Interdiction.


The reason why so many died in the ice interdiction was because the miners chose not to tank their ships most of the time. The few who did got killed by a mob.

The game currently works the way you want it to work
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#60 - 2012-01-29 21:33:21 UTC
Overall I agree with the mechanics as they stand though I think the retriever is sort of a pinata in space. And yes, most miners do a **** job of tanking their ships. I guess that extra m3 is worth the cost of the ship.