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Can I do an Incursion Nighthawk on 600 million?
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#1 - 2012-01-29 08:58:32 UTC
Hi

Is it possible to fit a good Nighthawk for Incursions, for 400 to 650 million ISK, including hull price?

If yes, how? I've got no experience at all with buffer shield tanking, and my passive shield tank days were long ago (I did fly an active tanked Nighthawk about a year ago, and it worked well, but did not output sufficient DPS to do level 4 missions quickly).

Also, should I fit a ganglink, or just concentrate on tank and DPS? I realize that the Nighthawk is well suited to dealing with small rats, but will it be well received in shield Incursion fleets without a ganglink? Or is it even possible to squeeze in a ganglink? I've got maxed Siege Warfare/ganglink skillz, of course.

After playing for nearly five years, I've got a lot of skillz trained to 5 (but need another month or two to max out the Logistics skillz for a Basilisk), but this will be my first Incursion ever. I have both missile range skillz trained to 5, so one possibility is to go for Assault Missile Launchers and be an anti-frigate expert. Would that work, or should I stick to heavies (which can still deal with frigates to some extent)?

If there's an upcoming change to the Drake, will that change things? I like to think it'll make the Nighthawk stand out more, if it retains the +resist bonus while the Drake loses that in favour of a gank bonus.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-01-29 09:48:06 UTC
Oh man those "skillz" are like stabs to my soul ...

But anyhow ... If it aint got turrets it aint optimal for incursions. Nighthawk with heavies might get you some fleets but not the other wierdness setups. Allso fleetboosters are usually alts sitting in system and not in the sites.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#3 - 2012-01-29 14:05:55 UTC
OK. How do I build a shield buffer Nighthawk, then? What are the core principles of buffer shield tanking? I understand active shield tanking, and passive shield tanking, but I don't know the tricks and principles of buffer shield tanking.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#4 - 2012-01-29 14:34:18 UTC
Salpad wrote:
OK. How do I build a shield buffer Nighthawk, then? What are the core principles of buffer shield tanking? I understand active shield tanking, and passive shield tanking, but I don't know the tricks and principles of buffer shield tanking.

That's easy, you want max shield HP an resists.

So in case of a Nighthawk I'd use:
2X Invuln II
1x Photon II
1 LSE

1x DC II

3x CDFE or 2x CDFE + Explosive resist rig
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
#5 - 2012-01-29 15:37:19 UTC
Sam Bowein wrote:
[quote=Salpad]
3x CDFE or 2x CDFE + Explosive resist rig


T2 ship, so only 2 rig slots ;)
Heun zero
MAYHEM BOYZ
#6 - 2012-01-29 15:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Heun zero
I've found the nighthawk will get you into fleets, but it wont be very fast. it's a decent starter ship for incursions I think though. It has a few small things going for it.

1) the Ganglink allows you to offer some benefit for the fleet
2) the high skill requirements for command ships, means the new or unskilled players most likely wont be able to fly one
3) you have 1 slot for either a TP or a web. Although this is almost mandatory for incursions and there are plenty of ships who can either devote more slots or have a bonus to make them more efficient


Salpad wrote:
OK. How do I build a shield buffer Nighthawk, then? What are the core principles of buffer shield tanking? I understand active shield tanking, and passive shield tanking, but I don't know the tricks and principles of buffer shield tanking.


The tricks to shield buffer tanking are really easy. A) get your resists up as high as possible B) get as many shield HP as possible.

In incursion B) isnt very important, you just need enough buffer to give the logi's time to get reps on you.

The incursion nighthawk I've used looks something like this:

[Nighthawk, nighthawk incursions]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Warrior II x5

I used faction BCU's but you wanted to keep the price down. And the rigs are to taste really. I went with some dmg rigs since the tank is sufficient as it is. You could or might wanna go with shield rigs for assault or HQ sites though

edit: fail spelling
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#7 - 2012-01-29 23:38:29 UTC
Thanks, you've been very helpful...

Which rig do I use if I want to optimize the NH further against frigate-sized rats? Is Flare or Rigor best? Or one of each? I understand that my main job is to take care of bigger targets, but I like being able to instapwn frigates if they become a problem.

How much use do I get out of my light drones (Warrior II by preference, since I'm maxed for those)? Should I devote a HIGH slot to a small shield repper and rep my own drones and those of others, or should I not expect to use drones much? Is there a rig to make my drones more durable?

What minimum resist should I aim for? Lowest resist 70%? 75%? 79%? 82%? I could probably build a very high omniresist fit if I wanted to, but I don't want to hit diminishing returns too hard, so what's a respectable target that will impress the less-than-3-year-old-players?
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-01-30 04:35:19 UTC
Tanking it up like a brick wont impress nobody .. maxing dps while maintaining enough defence to survive the sites does.

You wont need a repper for drones in the most cases ... when targeted by the rats they tend to blow up in seconds. Drones are something you assing to your fleets dronelord and recall back when site ends. If you lose some then you lost some and no big deal.

For a big signature shieldtank your resists look decent allready ... torpedoes will do the most damage on you and those are kin/exp damage.
Heun zero
MAYHEM BOYZ
#9 - 2012-01-30 10:28:12 UTC
your resists should all be around 75% preferably and with the set up I posted my lowest was EM with 80% resist (with ganglink bonuses). You do want to omni tank in incursions.

Also dont use drone rigs, drones arent very important on a nighthawk. For hitting smaller targets you're probably best of with rigor rigs, though I'm not sure if the result would be slightly better when having both a flare and a rigor.I dont think you need 2 of those rigs tbh if you already have a target painter. If you do want to fit 2 rigsfor hitting smaller targets then I suggest you put a web on there. I put a ROF rig in there because that gets you the most extra dps

And dont use a shield repper, because it will either make you loose your ganglink, which is one of the very few things the nighthawk has going for it, or it will cut into your dps as you have to drop a launcher, which is even worse.


good luck doing incursions!
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#10 - 2012-01-31 02:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpad
Heun zero wrote:
your resists should all be around 75% preferably and with the set up I posted my lowest was EM with 80% resist (with ganglink bonuses). You do want to omni tank in incursions.


Cool. But why not fit a Damage Control II instead of a Power Diagnostic? I've got leet fitting skillz, so do I really need a PDS? I also like the ass-saving aspect of DC2...

edited: tyop.
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
#11 - 2012-01-31 03:03:23 UTC
Salpad wrote:

I've got leet fiting skillz


This is gold!! hahahaha :D

Soooo this is my sig.... 
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#12 - 2012-01-31 03:43:29 UTC
illirdor wrote:
Salpad wrote:

I've got leet fiting skillz


This is gold!! hahahaha :D


I am serious, though. I don't bother with certifiates, but as far as I know, I have everything fitting-related trained to 5.

I thought I had decided to leave one of the "upgrades" skillz at 4, because it didn't really do much, but I just checked, and everything is at 5 except Hull Upgrades.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-31 07:28:28 UTC
Please get rid of the nighthawk, it really really really sucks for incursions.
Heun zero
MAYHEM BOYZ
#14 - 2012-01-31 09:23:07 UTC
Salpad wrote:
Heun zero wrote:
your resists should all be around 75% preferably and with the set up I posted my lowest was EM with 80% resist (with ganglink bonuses). You do want to omni tank in incursions.


Cool. But why not fit a Damage Control II instead of a Power Diagnostic? I've got leet fitting skillz, so do I really need a PDS? I also like the ass-saving aspect of DC2...

edited: tyop.



wont fit without an implant, even with all lvl 5 skills.

ofcourse the set up i posted is my personal preference. You can fit it anyway you want. my set up is just an example
Arcan Winter
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-01-31 13:22:44 UTC
Think this is, http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=fit&id=63, a rather common starter fit for the nighthawk. But I should replace the drone link with something else. You can pimp it a bit with faction BCUs.

On the webpage you find fits fro several other ships, if you have a good gun boat it will most like serve you better:)
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#16 - 2012-01-31 16:26:44 UTC
It's a t2 ship with a resist bonus. It does NOT need LSEs to tank vanguards.