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New player pays the price...
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Ai Shun
#41 - 2012-01-29 07:00:32 UTC
Macks Artilius wrote:
A clone contract should mean a clone contract. Once you sign up to it, the amount should be automatically debited from your account when you die. You'd still need to keep your contract up-to-date to avoid skill-loss, you just wouldn't be bumped back to the ****** starter clone every time you die. If you don't have the isk safety net needed to pay for your clone however... oh well.


And which corporation would you lodge your clone contract with? One of the ones that uses animal parts? I personally prefer Lai Dai, although they don't have the market share of say, Proteque Pharmaceuticals; I've always believed in buying Caldari and buying the best money can buy.

There are a number of obscure little widgets like cloning in EVE Online. Knowledge of which ones to use and which ones to ignore is what separates the experienced capsuleers from the novice ones.

Don't crack the egg!
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-01-29 07:27:46 UTC
i find it funny how

1. everybody whines how bad EVE UI is

2. ok, after ages of doing nothing about it CCP gets down to fix the UI

3. everybody starts to whine that as CCP makes UI simplier, they make EVE simplier so players don't feel themselves 1337 enough playing this simplified game.

4. .....

5. profit!!

seriously, some players are playing against CCP in these issues. they simply don't want new players to play this game while CCP depends on it. just ignore the whiners who say that useless complexity is good i say and implement the needed changes.

here's the blast idea!

make it an option, so you can turn off clone reminder in the options and feel 1337 about it. hide the new option from 1337 players (ones who whine on forums) so they would always have to update clone w/o reminder and shut up about it.

also make a new langueage option, named 1337ese which has all the old module names. hide the normal language option from players who played more than 3 years so they wouldn't whine on forums about it.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#43 - 2012-01-29 08:07:33 UTC
While I sympathise with the OP if it's genuine, he's got to realise that everything in eve has consequences.

Sure, ccp could give a warning when you undock in an undersized clone, a quick popup box that you can't disable, letting you know that you're risking skills should you get pod-killed etc.

But where's the fun in that Twisted

OP - you've learned a lesson that space isn't safe, nomatter where you are, you have the chance of getting your ship killed and you pod killed too.

Think of your pod as a bucket, you need to carry more stuff, you need a bigger bucket. You lose your original bucket, you still need to carry the same stuff, so buy a bigger bucket.

40 days ain't that bad to lose, just under 6 weeks, suck it up and get over it. Learn from the experience, and make sure your clone is up to date.
Decimus Octavius
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-01-29 09:57:35 UTC
In 0.0 you have an additional aspect to the cloning system by being able to disable station services in player owned stations. This makes tactics such as disabling the med bay on form up systems a viable strategy in a 0.0 conflict.
It is primarily an isk sink though and it sucks if you live remotely and like to pod jump around the place. At high SP it gets expensive.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-01-29 10:05:37 UTC
Astro Jones wrote:
thanks, i know it's my mistake but the question still stands...why do you lose skill? i mean what's the point?


It is because there needs to be consequence to losing. Unlike WOW and other MMOs Eve actively punishes you for failing, this is actually WHY alot of people play including me. I see no enjoyment in there being no risk to losing.

There are ample warnings that this will happen, and to be honest if you have been playing long enough to lose 40 days of training then there is no reason for you not to know. I hope that doesnt sound insulting, it is an obseravtion.

Most Eve players love Eve because it is harsh not in spite of it.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-01-29 12:26:11 UTC
It is as it is.

Accept it or leave.
seany1212
M Y S T
#47 - 2012-01-29 12:37:30 UTC
You only lose a small percentage of your skillpoints when you're podded with a clone that isn't updated, if you lost 40 days worth you have clearly a large amount of skillpoints than your letting on with you "I quit, but now I came back, k". You should know better unless you brought the character, either way, hahaha sorry for your loss...
Aldeskwatso
Primus Societas
Crimson Interstellar Alliance
#48 - 2012-01-29 12:43:20 UTC
Astro Jones wrote:
Trust me i get that now....but the question is why do you lose skill for being pod killed? Is it a isk sink...i do not understand why this happens.


Because you didn't update your clone. Simple as that. Somehow you didn't know. But after this harsh lesson you do and know you could and should have.

Rico Minali wrote:
Most Eve players love Eve because it is harsh not in spite of it.


It's the reason why I still play this game. Actually, this is the only game I keep playing as an adult. All the others I lose interest with in usually less then an hour. Most are just to easy to figure out and thus I lose a large part of my interest in it. A good storyline or some good ol' fashion action might keep me in but eventualy I'll drop em all. Not happening with Eve tho, not for a very long time.

The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.
malaire
#49 - 2012-01-29 13:29:12 UTC  |  Edited by: malaire
Corina Jarr wrote:
Is it even possible to lose 40 days of training?

Yes, it is possible.

What happens when my character dies has rules for skillpoint loss when podded.

First: You can only lose 5 percent of what your clone doesn't cover. 40 days of training is around 2 million SP (using average of 50k SP per day), so character must have at least 0.9 + 2/0.05 = 40.9 million SP to be able to lose 2 million SP in single podkill. (Free clone covers 0.9 million SP.)

That is about 27 months worth of training. OP is 34 months old so in theory he could have enough SP.

Secondly: You can only lose max 50 percent of the skillpoints you have in the skill were you have most skillpoints. So to lost 2 million SP you would need to have 4 million SP in single skill. Only rank 16 skill trained to level 5 has that many skillpoints.


So to recap: Character with 40.9 million SP (around 27 months of training) with at least one rank 16 skill trained to level 5 can lose about 2 million SP (around 40 days of training) in single podkill.

New player should not be using such a character .....

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#50 - 2012-01-29 14:35:16 UTC
Macks Artilius wrote:
40 days? Ouch. Our corp sends emails periodically reminding us to update our clones... because it hurts so much when you forget.

Honestly though, it really should be possible to set it up so that you auto-buy a clone of the appropriate grade when you're podded; I can't think of any reason why I wouldn't want to buy a new clone as soon as I got podded, ever. At very least there should be a popup saying something like "Your clone contract has been reset, would you like to buy a new clone contract now Y/N?" to remind you.


At a minimum, we should get an Eve-mail reminder. Same with ship insurance. Does Google Calendar not exist in the distant future? It seems silly we should have to mentally keep track of this (or use actuual Google Calendar).

No good deed goes unpunished
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#51 - 2012-01-29 15:05:50 UTC
Its like a drivers license, It always has to be renewed and losing skills to a pod kills shows you need to do the driver test again and get a new license.

Plus 40 days worth of SP loss shouldnt happen to a new player, so there is fair warning really.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Othran
Route One
#52 - 2012-01-29 16:50:10 UTC
malaire wrote:
(snip explanation of SP loss)

New player should not be using such a character .....


Indeed and as there's no thread for "Astro Jones" in Character Bazaar then I think we can say bought account.... well I can anyway Twisted
Astro Jones
AJ Corp
#53 - 2012-01-29 17:08:03 UTC
Thanks for all the posts...like i said i know i made a mistake and yes i will learn from it...Maybe someday i'll meet some real pvp's and learn PVP with the proper clone LOL

BTW i have about 28 million skill points and being killed twice cost me 2 million skill points..i lost battleship 5 and range finding 5...all i have done in EVE is just missions and ded sites, I kinda like to explore so i just need to expect to be attacked when i'm in low sec.

it is a fun game, i'll get it down someday


Have a nice day
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#54 - 2012-01-29 17:12:03 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Its like a drivers license, It always has to be renewed and losing skills to a pod kills shows you need to do the driver test again and get a new license.

Plus 40 days worth of SP loss shouldnt happen to a new player, so there is fair warning really.


*cough*
German drivers licenses are valid forever.. well, at least until you get problems with your eyes or I think at the age of 70 you need to go to some tests every two years.. but from 18 up to that point, no renewal necessary.
PPP
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#55 - 2012-01-29 17:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
Astro Jones wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Because you neglected to pay the price of updating your med clone.
Trust me i get that now....but the question is why do you lose skill for being pod killed? Is it a isk sink...i do not understand why this happens.


Hard in an MMO: It takes longer. WoW, LotRO, EVE, Pick your MMO, it's the same generic theme. I had an ExCopr mate do the same thing as you. He didn't know about Med clone and lost SP. You are fibbing a bit, OP. If you are noob you will lose at most I expect 3 weeks SP. Not months but unavoidably it's just another time sink in a Genre built on time sinks.

I read your Page 2 post.

You lost all of BS 5 and Range Finding 5?
That don't seem right.
Astro Jones
AJ Corp
#56 - 2012-01-29 17:23:14 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Astro Jones wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Because you neglected to pay the price of updating your med clone.
Trust me i get that now....but the question is why do you lose skill for being pod killed? Is it a isk sink...i do not understand why this happens.


Hard in an MMO: It takes longer. WoW, LotRO, EVE, Pick your MMO, it's the same generic theme. I had an ExCopr mate do the same thing as you. He didn't know about Med clone and lost SP. You are fibbing a bit, OP. If you are noob you will lose at most I expect 3 weeks SP. Not months but unavoidably it's just another time sink in a Genre built on time sinks.

I read your Page 2 post.

You lost all of BS 5 and Range Finding 5?
That don't seem right.



Not all of it but it adds up to 40 days...i'm going to have to re-map to lower the time...not sure if that's the best thing for me to do yet
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2012-01-29 17:24:12 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Is it even possible to lose 40 days of training?

Last I checked you only lost your level 5 of your highest skill. For me that would be 19 days for large laser 5.
It has nothing to do with levels — it has to do with SP. You lose 5% of the “missing” SP from your clone coverage from the skill you have the most SP in, with an upper limit of 50% of the total SP for that skill.

Granted, this will usually mean that you lose that lvl V from some expensive skill, but it's not a given. If you had some hugely expensive skill, you could lose, say, a lvl IV from it instead. That said, weeeeell… to lose 40 days of training you'd either have to be killed many many times, or you'd have to have a skill that took 80 days to train.

Macks Artilius wrote:
Regardless yes, creation date means nothing and frankly I think this is a legitimate complaint. This is something that adds complexity, but complexity != difficulty != fun.
It's not paricularly complex — it's there to make sloppiness hurt. A auto-renewal of your clone would allow you to be sloppy, and that would somewhat defeat the purpose.

I'd rather say that it could do with some actual complexity to make non-clone station that bit more dangerous… Twisted
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-01-29 17:35:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Is it even possible to lose 40 days of training?

Last I checked you only lost your level 5 of your highest skill. For me that would be 19 days for large laser 5.
It has nothing to do with levels — it has to do with SP. You lose 5% of the “missing” SP from your clone coverage from the skill you have the most SP in, with an upper limit of 50% of the total SP for that skill.

Granted, this will usually mean that you lose that lvl V from some expensive skill, but it's not a given. If you had some hugely expensive skill, you could lose, say, a lvl IV from it instead. That said, weeeeell… to lose 40 days of training you'd either have to be killed many many times, or you'd have to have a skill that took 80 days to train.

Macks Artilius wrote:
Regardless yes, creation date means nothing and frankly I think this is a legitimate complaint. This is something that adds complexity, but complexity != difficulty != fun.
It's not paricularly complex — it's there to make sloppiness hurt. A auto-renewal of your clone would allow you to be sloppy, and that would somewhat defeat the purpose.

I'd rather say that it could do with some actual complexity to make non-clone station that bit more dangerous… Twisted


Well, from this information, if he was running around with the lowest level clone, he'd be 27 million over the limit. 5% of 27 million is 1.35 million. If he got podded twice and he had two skills worth 2.7 million or more, he'd lose a total of 2.7 million SP. Whether Rangefinding and Racial Battleship fit this, I am too lazy to check.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#59 - 2012-01-29 17:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Well, from this information, if he was running around with the lowest level clone, he'd be 27 million over the limit. 5% of 27 million is 1.35 million. If he got podded twice and he had two skills worth 2.7 million or more, he'd lose a total of 2.7 million SP. Whether Rangefinding and Racial Battleship fit this, I am too lazy to check.
He'd run into the 50% limit.

Both are rank 8 skills (2 048 000 SP for lvl V). The most he can lose in each in one go is 1 024 000 SP.

Regardless, it's not a price new players will pay because they won't have those SP amounts, and they will have received (and hopefully followed the advice of) helpful pop-ups the first time it happened — with a bit of luck, long before they even have to pay for their clones.
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-01-29 17:39:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jacob Stiller wrote:
Well, from this information, if he was running around with the lowest level clone, he'd be 27 million over the limit. 5% of 27 million is 1.35 million. If he got podded twice and he had two skills worth 2.7 million or more, he'd lose a total of 2.7 million SP. Whether Rangefinding and Racial Battleship fit this, I am too lazy to check.
He'd run into the 50% limit.

Both are rank 8 skills (2 048 000 SP for lvl V). The most he can lose in each in one go is 1 024 000 SP.


And he claimed that he lost 2 million SP over 2 poddings. The story seems to be at least possible.