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The CSM concept fails in large part because we have a 1 server game.

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Ghoest
#1 - 2012-01-28 19:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind.

2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage.


In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance.

Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO.

All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance.
THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.



The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Aldous Borrn
League of Gentleman Cartographers
#2 - 2012-01-28 20:41:49 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind.

2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage.


In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance.

Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO.

All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance.
THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.



The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare.


No. That's incorrect.
That's like saying British parliament doesn't work because there's only one England.
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-28 20:47:54 UTC
Ghoest wrote:



THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.







You just described politics.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-01-28 20:48:14 UTC
cool

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#5 - 2012-01-28 20:57:34 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Ghoest wrote:



THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.







You just described politics.


Let's hope eve online can be as fun as a live debate between Obama and...
Solhild
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-01-28 21:37:32 UTC
Aldous Borrn wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind.

2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage.


In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance.

Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO.

All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance.
THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.



The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare.


No. That's incorrect.
That's like saying British parliament doesn't work because there's only one England.



Constituencies across the UK make up the parliament, boundaries are frequently redrawn to address population changes etc. Not sure what your point was, perhaps I'm drunk?
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-01-28 21:48:14 UTC
The whole point of Eve is that it's a single universe. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#8 - 2012-01-28 21:51:27 UTC
It would be cool if CCP could somehow introduce constituencies into the CSM elections, but I don't really see how they could do that.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Ghoest
#9 - 2012-01-28 21:54:02 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
It would be cool if CCP could somehow introduce constituencies into the CSM elections, but I don't really see how they could do that.




Ummm the players already did.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Aldous Borrn
League of Gentleman Cartographers
#10 - 2012-01-28 22:19:33 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Aldous Borrn wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind.

2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage.


In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance.

Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO.

All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance.
THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.



The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare.


No. That's incorrect.
That's like saying British parliament doesn't work because there's only one England.



Constituencies across the UK make up the parliament, boundaries are frequently redrawn to address population changes etc. Not sure what your point was, perhaps I'm drunk?


Much like the EVE universe is divided into numerous empires, regions, constellations, and so forth. One place, subdivided into smaller units.

Valid assertaion: One UK, numerous constituencies. Invalid assertation: Numerous universes, numerous UKs.

From which follows the possibly less pants-on-head stupid suggestion that representatives from the CSM be drawn from various regions, instead of fracturing the EVE player base across several universes. Though, that has it's own Pandora's box of reasons why that wouldn't work. EVE is based on having as many people as possible co-existing in the same space (user-generated market, alliances, corporations, fleet battles, the fact that there's thousands of systems, etc), why would anyone want to directly attack that basis?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-01-28 22:21:49 UTC
Aldous Borrn wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind.

2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage.


In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance.

Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO.

Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO.

All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance.
THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.



The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare.


No. That's incorrect.
That's like saying British parliament doesn't work because there's only one England.

Everyone knows the reason that the British Parliament doesn't work is because they're not In America.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-28 22:22:40 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Ghoest wrote:



THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.







You just described politics.


Let's hope eve online can be as fun as a live debate between Obama and...

I am hoping for Newt Gingrich, because I want to hear Obama's counterpoint to "let's build a moon base".

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-01-28 22:23:29 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
It would be cool if CCP could somehow introduce constituencies into the CSM elections, but I don't really see how they could do that.

Have you not heard of the Clusterfuck Coalition voting bloc?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#14 - 2012-01-28 22:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
So empty regions would be easy "consituencies" while the one which includes Jita...
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Have you not heard of the Clusterfuck Coalition voting bloc?

Oh, oh pick me! I've heard of this one!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Aldous Borrn
League of Gentleman Cartographers
#15 - 2012-01-28 22:25:33 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
they're not In America.


Not with that attitude, they aren't.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-01-28 22:26:47 UTC
Aldous Borrn wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
they're not In America.


Not with that attitude, they aren't.

Take it however you think I meant it, though I can't imagine why that particular organisation would like to visit America.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2012-01-28 22:27:37 UTC
Ghoest vomits out some nonsense about subjects he doesn't understand

nbs

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aldous Borrn
League of Gentleman Cartographers
#18 - 2012-01-28 22:30:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
So empty regions would be easy "consituencies" while the one which includes Jita...


Something like Jita might have several, based on population (whether that population be based on average occupancy over a period , or corporate office occupancy, or whatever). Whereas a vast stretch of barren lowsec with few, if any, occupants might have a single representative for dozens of systems.

It might be interesting to see how it would break down if we followed the EVE spirit and divided constituencies on more plutocratic levels: volume of ISK transactions. So, those areas that have the most value get the most representation. Though, again, I'm sure there is a train-wreck waiting in the wings with that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-01-28 22:38:44 UTC
Aldous Borrn wrote:
Something like Jita might have several, based on population (whether that population be based on average occupancy over a period , or corporate office occupancy, or whatever). Whereas a vast stretch of barren lowsec with few, if any, occupants might have a single representative for dozens of systems.
…if it weren't for the numbers (that I CBA to dig up right now) that showed that maybe ~25–30% of the people in Jita could be considered actual characters. The rest were (very) low-SP alts. P
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#20 - 2012-01-28 22:39:22 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Ghoest wrote:



THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances.







You just described politics.


Let's hope eve online can be as fun as a live debate between Obama and...

I am hoping for Newt Gingrich, because I want to hear Obama's counterpoint to "let's build a moon base".


Lol
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