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CSM Elections - Pretty much rigged voting?

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Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-01-28 22:10:38 UTC
Feligast wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Mittani, AKA Numismancer on Something Awful, is not the "head cheese". He is not even a moderator. He is just a random guy with a registered username who happens to play EVE. By contrast, Weaselior and VIle Rat, a couple of important people in GoonWaffe, are moderators on Something Awful. By your logic shouldn't they be the CEO of GoonWaffe, or the guy giving huge speeches at the State of the Goonion, or the ones that everyone hates on the CSM?


Vile Rat is on the CSM, and I think at least most people hate him.

Oh. Well, okay then. Point.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-01-28 22:12:06 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
WhyTry1 wrote:
I have no faith in the election voting process at all.

A candidate basically has his hundreds of alliance mate votes, and their alts on top. Pretty much seals the candidates seat and we can say is pretty much rigged voting..

People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this.. So thats why i guess a lot of ppl dont stand and ppl dont vote either...

I still think that CCP should be the people to effectively 'interview' candidates from all areas (null, low, empire, pvp, trade) and they choose who they think is the best person to be on the CSM. Thats pretty much the only way to ensure fairness.


True, but the null dudes give **** about that they think they are beter and stuff....

Why do you think that? We're not all egotistical jerks.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-28 22:15:16 UTC
...Just most of us.
Ai Shun
#44 - 2012-01-28 22:17:01 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
Im sorry but learn about democracy! The only thing democratic is the freedom to vote. Apart from that you votes ARE GUARANTEED! its basically FIXED!! its your own damn alliance mates voting for you, therefore its FIXED!!


If you want to get in, why don't you just get the support? Could it be because your ideas are not compelling? Or because you cannot communicate your ideals clearly? Or you cannot contact people? Because you are too lazy to work for a strong position within EVE Online? Because you cannot get support?
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#45 - 2012-01-28 22:25:13 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
This isn't true....

It's a matter of effort.

Although I did not like Ankhesentapemkah she was voted into the CSM with the second highest votes of any candidate. And every other CSM candidate hated her. She got her votes via forum campaigns and IN-GAME going through all the popular mission systems and campaigning via local and mass mails.

She was anti-pirate, anti-griefer, anti-everything that wasn't faction warfare, missions running or pve related. She even went as far as to post that anybody who pirates and suicide ganks in-game are low life scum in real life that should be "dealt" with. (Yeah she was a bit off kilter)

Sadly, she didn't exactly pan out and her supporters were let down after she was removed from the CSM due to an NDA breach... And throwing metal spoons at other CSM across the table... :/

In any sense, nobody else has bothered to even make a serious effort since then, but she is proof that even the most unlikely candidates can get elected onto the CSM. I didn't like her, but her vote count proved that people wanted somebody like her to represent them, and I guess that's all that really matters.

LOL I actually get the shivers just bringing her up due to how bad that entire situation turned out. But she really is the perfect example to use in a reply to "CSM ELECTION IS RIGGED!" threads like this one.
Imma outbidYOU
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-01-28 22:27:00 UTC
the csm members should have term limits. and any alliances with ccp employess should not be allowed to join as this is a form of insider trading.
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#47 - 2012-01-28 23:22:59 UTC
Dztrgovac wrote:
This isn't tyranny of majority. This is 15% of game population being organized into strong blocks being guaranteed to take all CSM seats. Vast majority of players will know nothing about the candidates available and either vote randomly of just not vote. EVE was supposed to be a game and game is supposed to be fun. But CCP has given too much influence and importance to CSM causing them to actually have quite a impact on game development and balance.


I have read in several different threads this accusation of CSM influence on the game. Do you know of any documentation that supports this? Besides the Mittani taking a great deal of credit for things lacking documented proof the last major case of player influence that seemed documented was the Incarna fallout.

And the voting patterns seem to be relative to real world examples with most of the players either uninterested in the meta politics and or believing their vote won't matter. The ability to know about candidates is there, the information is there and unlike real life equivalents no one is trying to make it harder or impossible for eve players to get the information needed and to vote.

Per the OP, in no way does having a large group that will vote for you somehow prove unsupported allegations of election rigging. Certain groups in Eve could have the same massive voting pool but fail to mobilize it.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#48 - 2012-01-28 23:32:24 UTC
I know I keep pointing to this, but AGAIN perceptions about the CSM elections being rigged are not at all the case. In CSM5 the second highest vote count was by a girl that did not get along with any of the power blocks, was anti pirate, anti-grief, anti-anything not PVE/FW/or industrial.

The problem is nobody has put the effort in to get those votes since her. Ankhesentapemkah won primarily through industrialists, people in NPC corps, and mission runners voting for her.

Now what IS true is that it is easier for somebody representing a power block to get voted in with much less effort than a newcomer from HISEC. But that doesn't mean its rigged, nor that it's completely out of reach.

CSM5 Elections - Results

The elections for the fifth CSM have ended. This election saw a record turnout both in terms of numbers of votes and the proportion of eligible voters that chose to vote. This election was a tight race with some rather fierce campaigning going on. I'm proud to be able to announce that the delegates of the fifth Council of Stellar Management will be:

Votes-Character Name-Real Name-Country
4,116 Mynxee Carole Pivarnik United States
3,360 Ankhesentapemkah Eva Jobse Netherlands
2,521 Dierdra Vaal Valentijn Geirnaert Netherlands
2,196 Korvin Andrey Antonov Russia
1,649 Vuk Lau Vuk Lau Serbia
1,553 TeaDaze Jason Renouf Guernsey
1,519 Meissa Anunthiel Stephan Pirson Belgium
1,463 Trebor Daehdoow Robert Woodhead United States
1,260 Sokratesz Tim Heusschen Netherlands
Buff Jesus
#49 - 2012-01-28 23:37:02 UTC
The CSM elections work the same way elections in real life work. Yes, an every-man from nowhere can get elected but they will have a much harder time of it than someone with full political party backing who gets more media coverage.

Study real world democratic processes before you claim a virtual one that doesn't serve your individual needs is "rigged".

New Favorite Eve Hobby: Bumping BS's with a Crow.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#50 - 2012-01-28 23:59:45 UTC
I had, some months ago, decided to vote for anyone endorsed by the worst possible null-sec alliance. I had, back then, the intention of voting for whomever the IRC HC decided to endorse, since personal experience with the HC told me that such a person would be most likely to "ruin EVE". I also pondered on the chance of a known botter getting my vote, since known botters most certainly are "ruining EVE". Now, however, after reading this huge number of threads against Mittani or GSF or CFC dominance in the CSM, I might vote for whoever GSF/CFC endorses, since popular opinion is that they are most likely to "ruin EVE".

Now, some of you might ask for the logic behind this decision? Well, since the launch of Incursion (I started around when Incursion launch-date was announced), I've seen that everything that is about to ruin EVE makes for either a great feature or at least a noteworthy experience. And this CSM was apparently predicted to destroy EVE the most, yet they were a part of what made CCP back out of the Incarna way of thinking and into Crucible & "War Themed Expansion". Granted, not everything is perfect, and probably neither CSM7, but if things meant to ruin EVE either makes great additions or at least good experiences to learn from, well, I'll vote for total annihilation every day of the week.

Thanks Mittani, Vile Rat, GSF & CFC, you'll always keep that honorary -10 standing in my heart. <3
Ilany
Nightingale Enterprises
#51 - 2012-01-29 00:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilany
Andski wrote:
Ilany wrote:
Andski wrote:

tippia, a long-time eve-o poster vs "WhyTry1" some nobody posting with an NPC corp alt
I wonder whose opinion is more relevant hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Lol. Goon noob tells alt noob that forum ***** noob has been around for 3 whole years. Ugh


nobody gives a **** about your opinion


What, and you think anyone apart from goon circle-jerkers care about your bilious drivel? Dream on.

Buff Jesus wrote:
The CSM elections work the same way elections in real life work. Yes, an every-man from nowhere can get elected but they will have a much harder time of it than someone with full political party backing who gets more media coverage.


The difference here is that the percentage of the population that votes for the candidates who actually get in is probably equivalent to the percentage of the population in major real-world democracies that votes for those "every man" candidates. You know, those weird people in silly costumes who appear behind the major party candidates on the platform when the results are called... except they win.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#52 - 2012-01-29 00:34:05 UTC
Ira Theos wrote:
I'm surpised that anyone other than the Goons are even in the CSM. If the Mittani coordinated and allocated his troop's votes better, he could capture all the CSM seats.


You are surprised because you don't get how their mentality works.

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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#53 - 2012-01-29 01:38:09 UTC
TIL that there is a human being who considers "winning a general election due to massive support from his allies" as a form of vote rigging.
Botleten
Perkone
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-01-29 02:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Botleten
Confirmed, CCP is ran by goons who rig the CSM election to ensure we win, but they only decided to do it that one year last year, and they also only put 2 goons on the council. But yeah, you're totally right dude, its 100% rigged.

Also confirming, goons do have circle jerks. Lots of them.
Connaght Badasaz
Lewis and Clark Inc.
#55 - 2012-01-29 02:08:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
There are approximately 7000 members of GSF. Let's be generous and assume that every single one of these members belongs to a seperate account which can vote

There are approximately 350,000 active accounts which can vote.

"Goons" make up a massive TWO PERCENT of the voting population.


It doesn't matter how much hysterical hurfblurf people spout out about the sneaky evil goons rigging this or controlling that (where do they get the time? ) the plain, incontestable, inconvenient, annoying fact is that they got their guy elected because they got their asses in gear, got motivated, got organised, got their members to actually vote, and as a result they got their result.

All the fancy STV schemes and reserved seats and consituencies and yadda yadda won't count for **** unless the people who are bawwing their little eyes out about MEAN OLE MITTENS cut out the slacktivism and god damb well VOTE.




Well no matter the source, I throw the bullshit flag on 350k..

And what part of vote for the alliance leader don't you get? seems reasonable, load up the CSM and giggle about it. It fits.

Take arrows in the forehead, never the back
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#56 - 2012-01-29 03:07:23 UTC
Botleten wrote:
Confirmed, CCP is ran by goons who rig the CSM election to ensure we win, but they only decided to do it that one year last year, and they also only put 2 goons on the council. But yeah, you're totally right dude, its 100% rigged.

Also confirming, goons do have circle jerks. Lots of them.

Confirming that CCP/CFC/CSM is all the same person with a lot of computers and a sympathy for the devil, as performed by Rolling Stones. I know this through my superior divination powers that gives me a huge insight into things I haven't tried, seen or inquired about. It is the same divination power that enables me to say that all 0.0 alliances are 190% botters and that Lyris Nairn is everyone's alt character.

+ 1 important spaceship game forum like.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-01-29 03:19:20 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
I had, some months ago, decided to vote for anyone endorsed by the worst possible null-sec alliance. I had, back then, the intention of voting for whomever the IRC HC decided to endorse, since personal experience with the HC told me that such a person would be most likely to "ruin EVE". I also pondered on the chance of a known botter getting my vote, since known botters most certainly are "ruining EVE". Now, however, after reading this huge number of threads against Mittani or GSF or CFC dominance in the CSM, I might vote for whoever GSF/CFC endorses, since popular opinion is that they are most likely to "ruin EVE".

Now, some of you might ask for the logic behind this decision? Well, since the launch of Incursion (I started around when Incursion launch-date was announced), I've seen that everything that is about to ruin EVE makes for either a great feature or at least a noteworthy experience. And this CSM was apparently predicted to destroy EVE the most, yet they were a part of what made CCP back out of the Incarna way of thinking and into Crucible & "War Themed Expansion". Granted, not everything is perfect, and probably neither CSM7, but if things meant to ruin EVE either makes great additions or at least good experiences to learn from, well, I'll vote for total annihilation every day of the week.

Thanks Mittani, Vile Rat, GSF & CFC, you'll always keep that honorary -10 standing in my heart. <3

Vote for me, instead! I am the independent, non-endorsed Goon running for CSM7

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#58 - 2012-01-29 03:24:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
WhyTry1 wrote:
People in small corps/alliances even though they may have lots of eve experience, would never get voted because of this..
No, the reason they rarely get voted in is because they can't capture an audience or a following and try to rely on their small corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign. History has show as much.


Considering the argument here, is that Null Alliances use "...corps/alliances to get them in rather than to run a proper campaign;" your statement is a little ironic, and maybe somewhat daft.

I don't mind you Tippia, (really I don't), but you say the strangest things sometimes.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-01-29 03:48:32 UTC
There should be 2 CSM parties, one to represent the null community and one to represent the high sec community. There might not be bipartisan stance on anything, but it would show two sides to things when they come up.

But how do you determine the high sec community since it can be infiltrated much easier than the null sec community?
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-01-29 03:50:22 UTC
You're right! Let's just make The Mittani the CSM Dictator for Life.