Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So... There are some problems with empire PvE content at the moment, one of which being the massive isk faucet that is Incursions. A few of us in corp were kicking around some thoughts about how to help the situation.

Now, incursions allow people to make a lot of money easilly and quickly, and of course that is the attraction for many. But the content is actually really good and enjoyable and that type of content should be available outside of crowded incursion systems.

My idea is to completely re-write how level 5 missions work in the game:

• Totally remove the low-sec element from them, because they are extremely sparsely run and the added danger of getting ganked does nothing to improve that.
• Turn them all into Incursion/Sleeper style sites that require a minimum of 3 people, and best run with 5+ people. Ideally needing logistics or some remote repair.
• Make the ISK payout a little higher than lvl 4s per person running, but not as much as Incursions.

The plan is to end up with dynamic, interesting, enjoyable PvE content that corps and groups of friends can run together, that pays them a little bit more than running missions separately. People can use whatever ships they have to hand (instead of needing pimped faction BS) and can piggy back younger characters into the gang too.

Why do this ?

1. Because Incursions are packed, and even if there is space in a constellation they pretty much demand highly optimized ships. Even for semi-regular runners with the right ships it can be hard to find a fleet.

2. While Incursions are due a nerf, the concept of making isk reasonably safe from PvP intrusion has been the backbone of eve forever, and I'd like to see the traditional isk faucet (missions) become richer and more enjoyable with an emphasis on collaboration. Aside from anything else, hardly anyone in deep 0.0 is genuinely risking much by running the plexes even though they are theoretically in 'dangerous' space so lets not get caught up in the idea that almost anyone genuine has risk involved in their daily isk grind.

3. The sleeper/sansha AI is good fun, and more content with it would be great.

4. Level 5s are kinda a joke atm. If you are someone who runs them and enjoys them, then you go man. I'm not trying to stop you doing that. But almost no-one runs them, and with good reason. This would make them an attractive option for many.

Just to re-emphasize I'm not trying to suggest we should open the isk floodgate to make everyone earn Incursion money. Not by a long shot. The payouts would be at best 10% over level 4's (on an average per hour basis). However, the missions themselves would be mini-incursions if you will. Same approach to their design.

*An Aside*
I also think that we should re-work the whole missions/standings system so that you can never drop below a certain level of standings with an empire faction unless you run optional story-line missions. This is more of a practical concern for me personally and is not a core part of the plan... There is a practical upper limit on how many missions you can run and move freely in empire and I've always hated that.
*End Aside*

So what do you guys think ?

First of all Lvl 5's are no joke, they need to stay right where they are. There is nothing wrong with them. Incursions on the other hand need to be placed in low sec and not highsec. It makes no sense that concord can't fend off sansha rats but can kill a fitted pvp ship in less than two seconds. Your idea is not supported!

I agree that L5 missions should be more appealing,and that incursions should pay less.

I think that the rocketing market value of PLEX should be an indicator that incursions are grossly ISK-rewarding... there's just too much ISK flying around in hisec space (and this is from someone who is still afraid to leave hisec space!)

I agree that it doesn't make much sense that CONCORD and Empires in hisec can't deal with a little/moderate pirate incursion, while they can clearly deal with player-pirates and aggressors very quickly..... so, incursions shouldn't be seen much in hisec space, but should be seen a lot in lowsec space where CONCORD/Empires would need capsuleer help to maintain hold on the system; it just makes sense!

And, again, make L5 missions more appealing!

I like the idea of group pve content, it's something that's largely missing from traditional missions, even lvl5's. And I am one of those few who run them regularly. Any proposal that removes current lvl5's with out offering a reasonable alternative gets a no vote from me. Lvl5's are my primary source of income and the same is true of many other low sec dwellers. It's about the only thing in low sec that's actually worth the inconvenience of trying to do pve there.

The incursion system had enormous promise as group pve content, but it has been poorly implemented. It's just too farmable and predictable. In addition, the site levels are poorly balanced in payout as can be seen by the vanguard farming while virtually all other classes are ignored. Incursions need some serious balancing work and that is well established, CCP has already stated they are looking into it.

I think what you are looking for is an entirely new agent type. A group mission category on top of the current security, research and so on types. Such agents should follow the current mission setup of lvl1 to lvl5. Unlike current missions however the reward should not be split equally among players as that encourages solo farming. Instead it should use the incursion style x amount of reward given to each player up to a certain number, at which point bringing more lowers payout. Bringing fewer players should have no advantages while bringing too many should lower payout.

They must also be sufficiently difficult that you can't solo them while having 3 alts parked on grid to get even more isk/LP. Since high sec is pretty safe, I can see a lot of people pulling that type of exploit. So the missions must really require everyone there to participate substantially. Of course if you can triple client combat ships effectively, then go for it, you should certainly be allowed to do so if you can keep track of it all. But it should be genuinely hard to pull that off successfully.

Low sec missions already pay around 50% more than high sec. Care to guess how many people run low sec lvl3's and 4's? It takes more than that little buff to make them worth while. The reason a few of us run lvl5's is because lvl5's pay roughly 10x as much as lvl4's and like lvl4's can be done solo in 15 minutes or less. They do require specialty ships however like pve carriers, 3B isk rattlesnakes and so on. They also require you to have some sort of control over the area or have some serious ninja skills. Those two factors are what keep it under control. Imagine what would happen to LP values if everyone in eve were making 400k LP an hour. It wouldn't be pretty.

In order to avoid breaking low/null sec, high sec must remain a low risk and low pay zone. The instant it stops being that it makes all other zones redundant. So group pve is fine, but the rewards really can't be much higher than the current solo content on a per player basis. And you must do it in such a way that people can't solo it and just take the added rewards for themselves. Incursions attempted this but failed by setting the rewards a little too high in high sec and making them epically farmable. But despite these issues, they do have the right reward splitting setup for group pve stuff.