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Let's Iterate Low Security Space!

First post
Author
Kelvan Hemanseh
Hole Exploitation Inc.
#41 - 2012-01-31 03:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelvan Hemanseh
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Kelvan Hemanseh wrote:
Did that rifter serve you well?

It was very strange to be flying a Rifter that was competently fit for combat. The ones that I usually fly are competent, but they are fit specifically to be low-skill ships that brand new players can fly and are designed for a specialized fleet role as fast tackle and scouts. In any event, that Rifter got me to where I was going, and then I logged off for the night.

Thank you, so much, space friend, for that Rifter!


e: format


I hope you slay many Russian space men with that rifter!


I had this really good post but the forums ate it :( . Make CCP fix that.

Low sec needs more of an incentive for people to be there other than it being easier for players to choose their fights. There isn't a reason for players to come and manufacture/mine/invent/research in low sec (other than drugs and certain ships), the risk is far too high for the reward.

More attractions should be added to low sec. For the miners, richer belts, more ladar/gravimetric sites, and better refine values than in high sec. For the manufacturers, better material efficiency, no idea what else I don't invent/research/manufacture the best I can do is make POS fuel consumption directly related to security status. Give low sec incursions a bit of protection, make whoever decides to probe one out have to put in a great deal of work to get a decent warp in, then perhaps have to use hacking/archaeology or something like that to open a gate and get to them. That should reduce the risk enough to bring a decent amount of incursion runners to low sec when combined with high sec incursion reward nerfs. Do the same but to a lesser degree for L5 missions. Hopefully with more attractions to low sec, piracy would be indirectly buffed, since more people in the system = more targets.

The bounty system should be reworked and based out of low sec. Add a skill to social, Hunting, allows the person to accept X bounty contracts per level of it, also add its corporate cousin the idea is to model the skills contracting and corporate contracting. Add another skill to social, interrogation, allows the hunter to interrogate station npcs in an effort to find out where the bounty is, should probably have some sort of mini game here so its not just a boring push button. Also another skill to social tracking, it allows you to use a special module/probe to find out where the bounty went. Adding those skills forces players to make more choices about how they allocate attributes since charisma would be slightly less worthless.

A player could place a bounty on any other player that has a <0.0 security status and/or has agressed them within a determined amount of time. Bounties would have to be placed in a low sec system, and would be visible within the solar system placed. To make it easier to find out where bounties are placed a new category would appear under statistics in the map, # of bounties available. When a bounty is accepted no other player/corp could accept it, and to claim a bounty the hunter would have to turn the target's corpse in at the station the contract was placed. The player that placed the bounty will receive the corpse and also have to pay out the reward money. Since pods are a pain to catch without a dic, the bounty contract holder's warp disruptor/scrambler's effect will carry over to the pod. This effect also occurs if a neutral tries to steal the corpse of the bounty you just killed.

The whole point of fixing bounty hunting is it will attract more people to low sec, to place/hunt bounties and it gives your standard helpless indy/miner some sort of recourse against someone who killed them before. Finally most of the above gives people a reason to be fighting in space which is always a good thing.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#42 - 2012-02-03 20:52:42 UTC
Check out assembly hall and the features and ideas forums.

Several ideas have gotten good support.

Jack Dent "what happens in low sec stays in low sec" Mittani has already weighed in support of this.

Lady Spank recomended that you would only get security increases from killing rats in low sec since concord doesn't even monitor null sec. That got allot of support as well.

Don't just listen to random ideas that happen to get posted in this thread.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Darkest Desire
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-02-04 11:42:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Darkest Desire
Goons have stated many times that they are intent on the literal destruction of EVE as a game.
A vote for Lyris is a vote for EVE's destruction!

I intend to vote for Brak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CrQ44o_zwM&feature=related
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2012-02-04 16:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Cearain wrote:
Lady Spank recomended that you would only get security increases from killing rats in low sec since concord doesn't even monitor null sec.

Who pays out the bounties? Is there some other omni-present force that prints the isk to pay out on destruction of the evil Dire Pithi Infernos?
Darkest Desire wrote:
Goons have stated many times that they are intent on the literal destruction of EVE as a game.

Mutually Assured Destruction and a MetaWin probably intersect on some measure zero set. You don't really win if there's nothing to win (or win at).

By literal destruction, I assume you literally mean some harm to the actual implements used to create it, this would range from hardware like servers to software, like the buggy code that breaks oh so often. Though people go for CSM meetings, I don't think they bash servers or induce programmers to write buggy code (or code that interacts with other code in unpredictable, unstable and potentially catastrophic ways).

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-02-04 20:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tahna Rouspel
One simple change; remove sec status lost for fighting in low.

This will motivate more people to fight in low sec! It's one thing I love about wormholes, you can assault people without worrying about sec status or gate guns.

Actually, if I can make other suggestions;
-Allow the use of mobile warp disruptor in low
-Allow the use of bombs
-Make your ship jump to a random location in the system after using a gate

This prevents gates from being camped too easily. It makes it easier to travel between system. It will allow people to have more survivability if they're soloing and can't use an alt to scout gates. If people realize that they can live in low sec without getting curbstumped every time they jump a gate, then they will flock to low sec.

Every time I had to jump through a gate in low sec with a bestower, I basically rolled a dice to tell if I'd die or not. There was no way for me to be certain what was on the other side since I only have 1 account. Once I'm in the system though, I can use d scan to get information. Having mobile warp disruptors would still allow people to stop travelers, but at least it wouldn't be as bad as before. Right now it's basically shooting down a pipe.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#46 - 2012-02-04 21:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Morganta wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Hello space friends;

You may or may not be aware that I am running for CSM in 2012. No hurt feelings from me if you didn't know that; honestly, I only know it because I'm the one doing it. In any event, it seems to me that the CSM could benefit from a consolidated list of what you fine folks think with regards to the present state of Low Security Space. Iterations, improvements, additions, suggestions and all manner of constructive discussion are welcome!

I realize that what I am asking is a bit out of the ordinary, because we have been trained to simply pick a politician based on what he claims to want and then to complain about the politicians who we perceive did not give us what we want. That is not the kind of politician that I am! I have no vested interest in or against Low Security Space. I bring no preconceived notions, no biases and no entanglements with me to the discussion. I just want a list of things that you, the People, would like to see done with regards to Low Security Space, and if I am elected then it is my solemn promise that I shall strive to the best of my ability to represent your expressed desires as a passionate advocate on your behalf.

So that's my spiel. Whether or not you vote for me, how about contributing to a list of things you'd like to see?

I, for one, am in love with Rifters. A vote for Lyris is a vote for Rifters.


allow dictors to bubble

hictors and mobiles no, but dictors yes


Oh please no. I've been pirating for coming up on 4.5 years and if bubbles came to low sec I would quit EVE in a heartbeat.

As for what I want in low sec, there is a good thread in the Assembly Hall that outlines some potential changes to the sec status system that would bring some more PVP traffic to low sec. As for us 'lifers,' there needs to be a way to earn a more consistent income from pure PVP. For example: regional pirate corps (Serpentis, Angels, ect.) hire capsuleers to kill traffic passing through and pay a bounty based on the platinum insurance price on each player ship destroyed. That's just an example that I made up, but something to that effect would be welcome. There is no reason PVPers should be shoehorned into a play style we hate (grinding PVE) in order to fund the one we actually enjoy.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2012-02-04 21:34:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Lady Spank recomended that you would only get security increases from killing rats in low sec since concord doesn't even monitor null sec.

Who pays out the bounties? Is there some other omni-present force that prints the isk to pay out on destruction of the evil Dire Pithi Infernos?


I am under the impression it is concord.

But back to my original point: Having a thread were everyone spews their 2 bit idea is not a good way to go about this.

Making low sec the same as null sec with bubbles etc and thereby reducing options for players is a bad idea. If you want gatecamping to be even more mindless than it is in low sec, then go to null sec and use a bunch of bubbles. If thats not your thing then there is low sec.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2012-02-05 21:24:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Making low sec the same as null sec with bubbles etc and thereby reducing options for players is a bad idea.

Well, campers in low sec don't have the option of using bubbles. Adding them would increase the options of lowsec gatecamp players.

Though gateguns would presumably pop bubbles that agress because of people trying to warp inside them, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile anyway. You can imagine a bunch of alts in newbie ships just winning the isk war or griefing campers by getting their bubbles blown up by gate guns.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#49 - 2012-02-05 21:37:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Making low sec the same as null sec with bubbles etc and thereby reducing options for players is a bad idea.

Well, campers in low sec don't have the option of using bubbles. Adding them would increase the options of lowsec gatecamp players.

Though gateguns would presumably pop bubbles that agress because of people trying to warp inside them, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile anyway. You can imagine a bunch of alts in newbie ships just winning the isk war or griefing campers by getting their bubbles blown up by gate guns.


You don't understand what Cearain is saying at all. Giving lowsec players the option to use bubbles decreases overall game play diversity in EvE. Many of us live in lowsec because of a very different type of fleetwork that can thrive in the absence of bubbles, bombs, and an entrenched supercap presence.

It gives lowsec players one more OPTION to use in combat, but it would essentially make 0.0 and lowsec PvP the same, eliminating the need to even have two separate regions in the first place.

Bubbles are exactly the kind of thing that slows down small gang warfare, and the reason why many of us get bored in null sec. No offense to those that enjoy the big stuff out there, its just there's a huge paying number of players who like a different style of PvP that would have their fun ruined by forcing too many similarities between 0.0 and low sec and basically homogenizing space more than it already is.

Killing diversity is a step backward for EvE, and what I think a lot of those discussing development don't realize is that the way to achieve that diversity is by limiting the options players have in some area of space.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

uredo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-02-07 10:15:56 UTC
My suggestion would be vote for Hans, not you.

At least he lives there.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#51 - 2012-02-07 10:41:30 UTC
uredo wrote:
My suggestion would be vote for Hans, not you.

At least he lives there.


Not to be rude to the op but this is really correct.

The problem with people who don't live in low sec suggesting changes is that, they prefer some other area of space. So they tend to make suggestions that makes low sec more like the area of space they live in. Null seccers say low sec would be better with bubbles. Wormhole dwellers say low sec would be better with nerfed local.

The thing is these things make eve less diverse, and make it so there is less to do in eve not more. The changes to low sec will need to be well thought out from people who have a good understanding of what is nice about living in low sec. Those differences need to then be carefully iterated on so that the strengths are further improved.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2012-02-08 21:12:02 UTC
I would like more interesting lowsec as well!
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-02-09 02:44:55 UTC
Cearain wrote:
uredo wrote:
My suggestion would be vote for Hans, not you.

At least he lives there.


Not to be rude to the op but this is really correct.

The problem with people who don't live in low sec suggesting changes is that, they prefer some other area of space. So they tend to make suggestions that makes low sec more like the area of space they live in. Null seccers say low sec would be better with bubbles. Wormhole dwellers say low sec would be better with nerfed local.

The thing is these things make eve less diverse, and make it so there is less to do in eve not more. The changes to low sec will need to be well thought out from people who have a good understanding of what is nice about living in low sec. Those differences need to then be carefully iterated on so that the strengths are further improved.

And as for me, I think Low Sec would be better with more things to do. Faction Warfare should reward PVP participants more than it rewards people who just do the Level 4 mission grind in a Stealth Bomber; 0.4 space should not arbitrarily be less valuable than 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1 with regards to anchorable Starbase structures. Nothing that I am suggesting is going to try to make Low Sec more like Null Sec: that would be me advocating for myself, not advocating for YOU, my voters.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#54 - 2012-02-09 04:25:09 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Cearain wrote:
uredo wrote:
My suggestion would be vote for Hans, not you.

At least he lives there.


Not to be rude to the op but this is really correct.

The problem with people who don't live in low sec suggesting changes is that, they prefer some other area of space. So they tend to make suggestions that makes low sec more like the area of space they live in. Null seccers say low sec would be better with bubbles. Wormhole dwellers say low sec would be better with nerfed local.

The thing is these things make eve less diverse, and make it so there is less to do in eve not more. The changes to low sec will need to be well thought out from people who have a good understanding of what is nice about living in low sec. Those differences need to then be carefully iterated on so that the strengths are further improved.

And as for me, I think Low Sec would be better with more things to do. Faction Warfare should reward PVP participants more than it rewards people who just do the Level 4 mission grind in a Stealth Bomber; 0.4 space should not arbitrarily be less valuable than 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1 with regards to anchorable Starbase structures. Nothing that I am suggesting is going to try to make Low Sec more like Null Sec: that would be me advocating for myself, not advocating for YOU, my voters.



Those are all good ideas in theory. As far as awarding pvp in fw that would be nice but it gets tricky. If you just give lp for killing the enemy then people will put throw away alts in the other militia pay the insurance and blow their alts up. CCP can do some improvement on this mechanic, but there is that limit.

IMO CCP needs to work on the plexing mechanic so that doing the plexes naturally brings about allot of pvp. How they go about doing that is the question.

There are quite a few threads with different ideas. Read through them and post in them. Get feedback and give feedback. That is what Hans has been doing now for a while. Realistically its hard to see how you can just start doing this now and gain the confidence of low seccers before the election. Again I applaud your interest, I really do, but its sort of late this time around.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-02-09 19:17:42 UTC
Cearain wrote:

There are quite a few threads with different ideas. Read through them and post in them. Get feedback and give feedback. That is what Hans has been doing now for a while. Realistically its hard to see how you can just start doing this now and gain the confidence of low seccers before the election. Again I applaud your interest, I really do, but its sort of late this time around.

I can completely understand and appreciate what you're saying and why you're saying it, and you're completely right. Were it my intention to farm "reputation," I could have—and should have—started on it early and sown my oats as wide as possible. As it happens that is not what I did. You have nothing but my assurances that I have paid attention to the threads that I started since announcing my interest in running for the CSM, and that my sole motivation for running in this race is to try out my new kicks—I MEAN SERVE HONORABLY AND PASSIONATELY IN YOUR ADVOCACY.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#56 - 2012-02-09 19:28:07 UTC
I wouldn't waste your time here, Cearain....Lyrius is a srs bizness candidate, she can handle her own. If she wants to win the election, she can listen to her boss, who knows how to get **** done.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Fractals 4Lyfe
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2012-02-09 19:37:47 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I wouldn't waste your time here, Cearain....Lyrius is a srs bizness candidate, she can handle her own. If she wants to win the election, she can listen to her boss, who knows how to get **** done.


I don't know if you've been paying attention at all, but Lyris has noted multiple times that he is not running under a Goon platform, whatever that would be. He is not an official candidate; few if any goons are planning to vote for him. This is just a thing he is doing, and he actually is interested in doing this. I'm sure he would be happy to clear up this misconception himself, too.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#58 - 2012-02-09 19:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Were it my intention to farm "reputation," I could have—and should have—started on it early and sown my oats as wide as possible.

In the interest of continuing in the vein of this engaging and informative dialogue on an internet spaceships forum, please tell me more about sowing your oats.
Fractals 4Lyfe wrote:
He is not an official candidate; few if any goons are planning to vote for him. This is just a thing he is doing, and he actually is interested in doing this. I'm sure he would be happy to clear up this misconception himself, too.

He damn well has. Here, but also in our top secret forums mentioned in the sig. The latter happens to be more important because that's where the Commissariat makes their home.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#59 - 2012-02-09 19:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Fractals 4Lyfe wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I wouldn't waste your time here, Cearain....Lyrius is a srs bizness candidate, she can handle her own. If she wants to win the election, she can listen to her boss, who knows how to get **** done.


I don't know if you've been paying attention at all, but Lyris has noted multiple times that he is not running under a Goon platform, whatever that would be. He is not an official candidate; few if any goons are planning to vote for him. This is just a thing he is doing, and he actually is interested in doing this. I'm sure he would be happy to clear up this misconception himself, too.


Did I say she was running under a Goon platform? My only comment is that if she wants votes, she should listen to the pros that have won before and seek out a core support group that you know can elect you before you begin campaigning, instead of asking people what they want and hoping that by the time election season's over you'll prove to them you can protect their interests.

Besides, you don't have to run under a Goon platform to actually support the Goons. If you bleed off enough votes from the front-runner candidates, you help your core bloc by spreading other votes around amongst the opposition. Note that the Mittani likes to prop up every new candidate that enters the race. If you watch carefully, he'll tend to be harder on the front-runners amongst the non-blocs, and try to help the little guy.

Now, that's not to say Mittens won't switch up his strategy this election, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I'm sure Lyris's heart is in the right place here. She sounds very helpful and nice and all! Bear

I'm just letting the voters know what kind of political strategies have been run before so that voters can keep this in mind when listening to each of the candidates.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-02-09 20:28:02 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Now, that's not to say Mittens won't switch up his strategy this election, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I'm sure Lyris's heart is in the right place here. She sounds very helpful and nice and all! Bear

These two lines make me happy, because they show you to be a rational, thinking individual. We should be friends!

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn