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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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What race for a new player interested in PvP?

Author
Degren
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-01-27 15:15:52 UTC
Hello, all! I'm sorry, I know this question comes up quite often, so I'll give some background info and then just ask it. I started this game a few months ago, got sucked into carebear-ery (mining, freighter, trade) and am sick of it.

I bought an intensely beefy combat character with the money I made from trading/mining (start up cash from a game time code, don't bite my head off, I was weak!) and decided it felt way, way too much like cheating. I'll be selling it soon.

So! My question. I know Winmatar is amazing. I know Caldari is great for PvE and people like Drakes and Tengus (and the ECM ships).

...but how are Gallente now, with the Crucible changes?

I ask because I've got reasonably good drone skills from mining, and...well...I'm Gallente. I have a soft spot for them. I was considering just b-lining for a Hurricane/Maelstrom, but I thought I'd ask first. Thanks for your input, I genuinely appreciate it.

(Pretty much just assume all my core skills and weapons skills are garbage also, the wasted skill points are embarassing, but I'll suck it up)
Liam Mirren
#2 - 2012-01-27 15:27:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
It really depends on the type of PVP you're looking and how willing you are to put in effort to learn, apart from that it's not necessarily about race (although some are better suited than others) but more about specific ships from that race. Have a look at the link in my signature, it links to a bunch of guides I'm making atm, one of them talks about the different races, that might give you an insight.

If you have more questions just ask away ofc.

- edit- on Gallente specifically, things like Incursus, vexor, thorax, brutix can be great for solo pvp. just realise that solo pvp tends to end in tears but as long as you fly cheap ships and are fine with that (while taking a few down with you) you'll have a blast.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Teowulff Odinson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-27 15:29:23 UTC
Degren wrote:
Hello, all! I'm sorry, I know this question comes up quite often, so I'll give some background info and then just ask it. I started this game a few months ago, got sucked into carebear-ery (mining, freighter, trade) and am sick of it.

I bought an intensely beefy combat character with the money I made from trading/mining (start up cash from a game time code, don't bite my head off, I was weak!) and decided it felt way, way too much like cheating. I'll be selling it soon.

So! My question. I know Winmatar is amazing. I know Caldari is great for PvE and people like Drakes and Tengus (and the ECM ships).

...but how are Gallente now, with the Crucible changes?

I ask because I've got reasonably good drone skills from mining, and...well...I'm Gallente. I have a soft spot for them. I was considering just b-lining for a Hurricane/Maelstrom, but I thought I'd ask first. Thanks for your input, I genuinely appreciate it.

(Pretty much just assume all my core skills and weapons skills are garbage also, the wasted skill points are embarassing, but I'll suck it up)

Gallente isn't in such a bad shape as they were but it's still mostly Minmatar for your average small PvP fleet. For big PvP fleets you can train Amarr or Minmatar. For small skirmishes all races are viable.

On the other hand, no race is really that bad. Gallente has some pretty decent ships that fit well in armor gangs.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2012-01-27 15:37:14 UTC
They're not "bad" at PVP. They still have some areas that could be "better", but they're hardly "bad".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-01-27 20:17:15 UTC
Are these even the Eve forums anymore? I freaked out when I saw the title of the thread because I expected every "pro pvper" to come in here shouting "winmatar", but it appears there have only been reasonable responses.

Each race has a different niche it fills in PvP. More than that, each ship has different advantages or disadvantages. You could crosstrain Minmatar and go straight for Cane/Mael, but you're just chasing the flavor of the month, which isn't even homogenous across all regions. Maybe next month everyone will be flying Harbingers/Apocalypses, and then you'd be left up a creek without a paddle.

If you like Gallente, stick with them. They have some great ships, particularly now after the hybrid buff. If not, then swap to another race. Whatever you do, each race has ships that are good for solo, for gang warfare, and for large fleets. Look at the ships and decide.

Personally, I decided I don't like big ships, so I just crosstrained all 4 races of frigates and cruisers. The variety is fun!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#6 - 2012-01-28 05:24:44 UTC
All the races are the same roughly.

It's purely play style based.

Minmitar are popular due to the high amount of speed and in your face dps.
I don't think they are any better then the other three races ships.

The main reason amarr is also popular for armor base groups is they are another straight forward play style.
They give up speed and a bit of max dps for longer bells on the dps curve and to get rid of the bell curve on the def numbers.
Also a switch of chosing dmg type for instant range switching.
Overall they still play very similar to minmitar even with the few changes.

Gallente being drone heavy make less of the skills as usefull for cross training. Only the smaller drones will help a large amount of other races ships. Missles have a similar aspect to them as they don't cross train easy. One gunnery skill can help for 3 types of weapons.

I personally enjoy using both drones and missles and avoid gunnery for the most part. I find not only is it equally effective if you know what your doing but it can mess others up when they are not use to fighting your style. It's also nice to be part of that rarer play style so your cross faction ship cost can be reduced by up to half the cost for a ship of the same class that others buy.


Anyone telling you one group is better then the other is just trying to sell you something.
CCP have issues but they do a rather good job of keeping the game balanced.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-28 09:10:16 UTC
I appreciate all the input! I'll probably stick with Gallente/Minmatar cruisers/battlecruisers (and maybe a Dom/Thron for PvE) and move to Caldari a bit later for variety. That opens up the possibilities with pirate faction ships, as well as giving time to train armor then shields.

Cheers!

Hello, hello again.

Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-28 11:20:57 UTC
Hmmm... Whenever I read something about PvP, everybody is talking about frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers and up. Do destroyers suck so badly in PvP that nobody is using them or everybody just skip this class to get into big ships ASAP?

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory

Liam Mirren
#9 - 2012-01-28 11:26:24 UTC
Xerces Ynx wrote:
Hmmm... Whenever I read something about PvP, everybody is talking about frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers and up. Do destroyers suck so badly in PvP that nobody is using them or everybody just skip this class to get into big ships ASAP?


Destroyers have become better due to the recent buff they got, the problem is that they're still not really valid. They're good at killing frigs but as everybody knows that no frigate will ever attack one (unless he knows he can win), while they're still not fast enough and still don't have the EHP/sig relation that you'd want in a pvp fight.

Ofcourse, people still kinda avoid them based on old knowledge and memes but the truth is they haven't really changed much, they're still only useful in low SP PVE and some very specific support PVP roles. Worse, with the buffs the AFs just got the Dessies got pushed back down again away from those support roles as well.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-01-28 11:53:21 UTC
OK, I get it. Solo PvP in a destroyer - bad idea. What about bigger fleets? Few destroyers (T1, not interdictors) flying as support for BCs and BSes, killing (ECM) frigates... I can see a place for dessies here.
The reason for my question is I like this class and I want to be a part of a big fleets. It's really bad for me if fleet commanders don't want to even hear about a destroyers in their fleets. Frigates are nice, but not so versatile and durable. Cruisers are also nice, but sluggish. Destroyers are in the perfect middle here. You can kill frigates with them and bite the cruisers.

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory

Liam Mirren
#11 - 2012-01-28 12:05:17 UTC
Agony Unleashed uses them a lot in their PVP classes, thing is that they rely on numbers and different forms of ECM and while it's potent it says more about numbers&ECM than it says about destroyers. You can make them work ofcourse, specifically the Thrasher is very good and you can specialise in them and have fun, this being a sandbox you decide on your own "end game".

If you like the "all guns" thing have a look at battle cruisers, they're fairly similar in approach albeit ofcourse a lot bigger. BCs really are the bread and butter for PVP as they're effective and affordable. They can tank sentry guns, have decent speed and scan res while sporting good dps and range.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-01-28 12:19:02 UTC
Yes, I can decide what ship I fly and stuff, but when it comes to PvP fleets, somebody else decides. Be it a corporation that may or may not accept me or FC that may or may not allow me to fly a destroyer. It is a sandbox when you fly solo or with friends and when you can always say "all right, now I'll try this one" and everybody is OK with that.

As for the BCs, I have two of them and I still like my destroyer more. I have a much bigger fun piloting a dessie than cruiser or battlecruiser. Don't know how it will be with BS, but I don't think it will change anything.

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#13 - 2012-01-28 16:42:48 UTC
T1 Destroyers have some things they do great in pvp.

Thing they do best of all is high sec gank like no other ship can come close to.
The dps to price ratio is just great.

The other is High sec war against noob corps. Just have one in the gate camp. (( Probly being flown by one of your noobs )).
This is only really useful if you already have enough frigate size tackle in the group.
You'll mainly see this with noob on noob fights.

Now lets stay on topic Smile
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#14 - 2012-01-29 16:02:07 UTC
What race? Short answer: Any but Caldari.

For the quickest path into PvP, select either Gallente or Minmatar, pick an assault frigate you think sounds good (doesn't matter a lot) and train for it. Maximize every skill associated with it or at least take them all to level 4. As you work on this you can fly either the Rupture or Vexor, which will give you exceptional damage with a solid tank and great versatility -- all in an inexpensive hull. Or for fun fly a Destroyer.

Ammar has great ships, but the path there is perhaps a little longer. Minmatar is the easiest, which is why so many (including me) choose them.

As for Caldari.... they have the smallest selection of PvP platforms in the game, (AF's, Drake, Falcon, Rook, Tengu). Of these, CCP is talking about "nerfing" the drake, falcon, and rook, and it is a very safe bet that the Tengu will be wiped out as well (as it actually is hillariously overpowered).



Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-01-29 17:57:05 UTC
Awesome input! Looking forward to getting my butt handed to me for a while =P

Hello, hello again.

L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#16 - 2012-01-29 17:59:37 UTC
Degren wrote:
Awesome input! Looking forward to getting my butt handed to me for a while =P


If you work at it and learn from your own mistakes, you'll be surprised how short 'a while' is.

best of luck.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#17 - 2012-01-29 18:56:51 UTC
If you live in highsec gallente is pretty much the best choice due to vindicators and vigilants.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#18 - 2012-01-29 19:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
If you live in highsec gallente is pretty much the best choice due to vindicators and vigilants.


Those are not pure gallente ships. I do agree that they are wonderful for pvp.

The Gurista ships are my favorite cross faction group and yes they use gallente/caldari. (( See anti caldari post above ))

You will notice that a lot of amarr and minmitar ships are pure dps/tank/speed. ((simple))
This is why people like them for pvp.

Gallente and Caldari have a lot more support options examples being: domi / scorpion
I enjoy this style of play far more then being the heavy hitter. ((Spider tanking / EW / Drones ))

Over all they really are so close to equal that it only matters based on your play style.
OT Smithers
A Farewell To Kings...
Dock Workers
#19 - 2012-01-30 06:27:35 UTC
Degren wrote:
Awesome input! Looking forward to getting my butt handed to me for a while =P


No reason you should. Just stay alert. Whenever you are doing anything, ask yourself what you would do if you were attacked right now. Good general rules:

1. If you didn't die you didn't lose
2. If you did die but learned something, it WILL be well worth it down the road.
3. "More DPS" is not a tactic or strategy, it's what you do when you don't have a tactic or strategy
4. As often as you can stay aligned and ready to warp
5. You have more time that you think, so relax and be precise
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#20 - 2012-01-30 19:46:53 UTC
Honestly, ships from every race has ships that are potentially viable for PvP. The main thing is picking a ship/ships that fits your style of playing. Early on, I would suggest picking a couple budget oriented ships to specialize in at least until you learn the ropes. Experiment with fits, and tactics and learn the relative strengths and weaknesses of your ship.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

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