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Don't end Suicide Ganking- Improve it. Good Samaritans
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#41 - 2012-01-28 06:03:54 UTC
met worst wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
met worst wrote:
Much easier to just remove Concord, wardecs and standings. Make NIPS/NAPS illegal. Put guns and tank on indys and freighters, remove all gate guns and just let it be a total free-for-all.

**** it. Why not?

Ok. How do you enforce the ban on NAPS? Surely you're not suggesting we be forced to shoot a target we don't want to shoot.

Remove the standings tools. Then just follow Rule

N
B
S
I

Harden up a little. Roll


1) I fly in fleets that fight alongside groups with whom my alliance has no or neutral standings pretty regularly.

2) In a social game, why would you want to punish people for wanting to socialize?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Voreldrix Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-02-14 14:37:24 UTC
This whole topic makes me laugh to be honest with you xD All the high sec carebears whining about being killed by suicide gankers, well its your fault for A) Being a bot or B) being sad enough to stare at a rock all day and shoot lasers at it.

The whole point of EVE that it is a FREE universe. As soon as you start punishing people (more than having their ships destroyed) for high sec ganking / other piracy it takes away that freedom.

In fact it does take quite alot of though / effort to suicide gank. You have to get a fairly decent fit and skills to be able to down a hulk / mackinaw, you have to locate the right system, and then co-ordinate an attack (if you aren't doing it solo). To be honest with you it is pretty fun :D and one of the main reason people suicide gank is purely to troll people, and threads like this just keep it going :)

There is already alot of punishment in place anyway. Such as your ship getting blown up, global criminal cool down, alot of sec status loss.

Peace out, carebears!

Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-02-14 15:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shazzam Vokanavom
Voreldrix Egivand wrote:

There is already alot of punishment in place anyway. Such as your ship getting blown up, global criminal cool down, alot of sec status loss.

Peace out, carebears!



Of course the other ship isnt blown up?

How does GCC actually help when your point about your ship being blown up is relevant?

Security loss is a joke, and is more than manageble by fast ratting techniques.

When a person can plex in an afternoon at suicide ganking multiple targets it really seems like a deterant to me.

And I always love the way how people have this expectation that criminal activities should be without issue or a need to face consequence, it really does suggest the level of complacancy given to them due to the lack of an effective player policing system.

"Please, don't let the soft industrial have a way to fight back, it means I might get shot at." and then you argue about promoting PvP and risk aversion. Your actually more whiney and hypocritical than any of the extreme carebear attitudes we occasionally get to see. I'll reset my crystals to tear collection.
kla samon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-02-14 15:27:54 UTC
Being able to haul decoy cargo would make the suicide ganking equation alot more interesting and fun.

I'd love to be able to bait people into taking shots at my ships filled with decoy cargo.
Florence Cesaille
The Kurian Order
#45 - 2012-02-14 15:59:01 UTC
Ganagati wrote:
The reason, as a PvP player, that I dislike suicide ganking is that there are no risks involved that are not calculated for the attackers. They know how much they will lose, how much they will gain, and what will be involved along the way. I don't want to see suiciding removed... far from it. I want to... spice it up a bit for other players, and maybe open a new line of work.

A good Samaritan rule with CONCORD. If a player is under attack by a suicide group, that suicide group becomes KOS for everyone around until their ship is destroyed. As it stands, if a freighter gets attacked by a group of pirates and I step in to help, the "police" will say "lol, idiot. You attacked someone without provocation". 0_o Really? I'm trying to save some hauler from his definite demise and I'm getting told I'm a criminal?

Highsec PvP is too limited because CONCORD gets in the way of actively participating to protect others. People in the same group as a freighter, hired to protect it, cannot do anything when a suicide group attacks because they would just get blown up themselves. This change would allow a new line of work in highsec- escorts. =D Got a freighter you want to see moved from point A to point B? We'll help take down any suiciders that cause you problems!

I dunno, seemed fun to me. Ugh



Eliminate Concord as it is. Have Concord be player run with lots of resources...like someone calls for help and they can warp to them quickly. To make sure the player police is not outnumbered (if you must) then have Concord as backup but to a much lesser extent than now.

The Player Concord LP store should have great stuff.

I do not understand why CCP didn't design it this way in a PvP game while instead putting in NPC police.
bartos100
Living Ghost
#46 - 2012-02-14 16:15:51 UTC
I would love some decoy cargo

That would makethe gankers think twice
Sabren Bel
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-02-14 16:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabren Bel
Give the victim a Concord kill mail showing that the ganker was killed by Concord.

And let this kill mail be postable to kill boards by the victim.

Should deter some when their kill stats show a 1:1 kill ratio.

Or perhaps it would be easier to implement by removing any kill mail generated by a suicide gank.
Zag'mar Jurkar
Muffin Mining Militia
#48 - 2012-02-14 17:03:21 UTC
Having fake items in cargo would be a nice idea.
Give the gankers a chance to see if it is fake or not depending on their scanning skills, giving some time dedication to do their "job" more effectively.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#49 - 2012-02-14 17:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
If you want to make things interesting, at least as far as ganks on cargo ships is concerned, two things come to mind.

1: A module that can mask the contents of your cargo hold.

2: Introduce a skill that allows you to shave off 1km from the 15km autopilot warp in per skill level.

Advantages (to all concerned):

1: Cargo pilots can feel good that the pirate must take a gamble as to whether they are a worthwhile target or not.

2: Cargo pilots reduce the time spent hauling goods.

3: Because of the previous two points, cargo pilots will be feel quite confident and encouraged to haul expensive cargo via autopilot in much larger volume than they currently are. It would be a cornucopia of easily gankable wealth flowing like never before. If the hauler has this module fitted (detectable by scanning his fittings) you will know he tends to haul more expensive items than he should... the only question is whether is is empty or full when you target him.

Edit: This would also encourage and play into any fleshing out of the smuggler profession in EVE.

By the way, sucide ganks are not a problem to be "solved". However there is always room to consider making the mechanics of it more interesting for both sides.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#50 - 2012-02-14 17:23:23 UTC
The trouble with giving Concord to player is, EVE is a meta game. You won't kill me for ganking you, my alt will.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#51 - 2012-02-14 17:28:23 UTC
Ioci wrote:
The trouble with giving Concord to player is, EVE is a meta game. You won't kill me for ganking you, my alt will.


That, and response time.

You will never, ever, be able to beat Concord to a gank if you have to enter warp to get there. The only way you could hope to intervene is if you are already on location, which turns it into more of a body guard situation than a Concord like patrol.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-02-14 17:49:23 UTC
Voreldrix Egivand wrote:
This whole topic makes me laugh to be honest with you xD All the high sec carebears whining about being killed by suicide gankers, well its your fault for A) Being a bot or B) being sad enough to stare at a rock all day and shoot lasers at it.

The whole point of EVE that it is a FREE universe. As soon as you start punishing people (more than having their ships destroyed) for high sec ganking / other piracy it takes away that freedom.

In fact it does take quite alot of though / effort to suicide gank. You have to get a fairly decent fit and skills to be able to down a hulk / mackinaw, you have to locate the right system, and then co-ordinate an attack (if you aren't doing it solo). To be honest with you it is pretty fun :D and one of the main reason people suicide gank is purely to troll people, and threads like this just keep it going :)

There is already alot of punishment in place anyway. Such as your ship getting blown up, global criminal cool down, alot of sec status loss.

Peace out, carebears!



The rest of the thread was pretty much about freighters/indies getting ganked on gates but you saw miners and mining everywhere. You must be a miner at heart.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#53 - 2012-02-14 18:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alistair Cononach
The answer is simple.

If you are killed by CONCORD in High Sec, you get a 24 hour Universal Killrights status. Anyone can shoot and kill you anywhere in EVE for the next 24 hours, CONCORD and Gate Gun free. YOu can, of course, defend yourself CONCORD and Gategun Free as well if attacked.

Seems fair, and logical, that a High-Sec lawbreaker would not just get popped by the spcae cops, but have a bounty on his head for a wee bit afterwards.

Would restore some balance to Suicide Ganking, some danger and potential cost, whilst opening up the "Bounty Hunter" profession some (players coudl roam around, or even perhaps get a listing, or high-sec "Wanted men" to go chanse after).

But it leaves in place the risk of being killed anywhere at any time, something IMO vital to EVE.

I think it's a win/win. Bears still die, Gankers still gank, and now Pirate/Ganker Hunters have a brand new profession, and more fights will happen. A win all round.
Shazzam Vokanavom
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-02-14 19:22:11 UTC
Pretty much as detailed in this thread: Bounty Hunting for CSM 7

The view you mention is very much supported in the proposal presented by Malcanis therein.
Ganagati
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-02-14 19:49:39 UTC
I'm not looking for CONCORD to do anything more than they do now... in fact, I don't mind if CONCORD does LESS than it does now. What I want is introduce risks that aren't calculated for the suicide ganker. Gankers are by no means PvPers. Nullsec players, highsec carebears, WH players- none of them view them as such. Only other suiciders make such claims. I'd like to see that changed. I'd like for suicidebears to have an opportunity to see what PvP actually is in EVE, and get to experience the loss of their ship like any other PvP player. And I don't want CONCORD to do it for me.

I guess the simplest solution would be to remove highsec entirely. But since that won't happen, I'd like for a solution to make combat a little more open when it comes to suicide gankers.

.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#56 - 2012-02-15 06:12:53 UTC
Voreldrix Egivand wrote:
This whole topic makes me laugh to be honest with you xD All the high sec carebears whining about being killed by suicide gankers, well its your fault for A) Being a bot or B) being sad enough to stare at a rock all day and shoot lasers at it.

The whole point of EVE that it is a FREE universe. As soon as you start punishing people (more than having their ships destroyed) for high sec ganking / other piracy it takes away that freedom.

In fact it does take quite alot of though / effort to suicide gank. You have to get a fairly decent fit and skills to be able to down a hulk / mackinaw, you have to locate the right system, and then co-ordinate an attack (if you aren't doing it solo). To be honest with you it is pretty fun :D and one of the main reason people suicide gank is purely to troll people, and threads like this just keep it going :)

There is already alot of punishment in place anyway. Such as your ship getting blown up, global criminal cool down, alot of sec status loss.

Peace out, carebears!




So why can I, within a trial account, skill up a toon and go ganking away then? If its oh so difficult to do as you say? Its NOT difficult at all. Consistently getting really GOOD kills like this guy does all the time IS hard http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12431357 But ganking a hulk or a mack takes literally EVEN less brain power and skill than suiciding someone hauling stuff.

I know this because Ive been on both sides of the coin in this game and know how hard or easy it all is. Stop talking out your ass about it.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-02-15 08:06:31 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
How about some epic justice?
Ganked Miners can put a bounty on their perpetrators...but a bounty in ore, not in isk.
The Ganker will now be a valid target to anyone until he has mined the according amount of ore and handed it out to conocord to pay off his debt to society Lol


You almost had me rolling on the floor. I so support this, and demand it be made a mechanic asap. Watching gankers(aka wannabe carebear pirates) try and mine away their permanent GCC in lowsec with a frigate/ibss while being constantly preyed upon by "real" pirates would be absolutely priceless.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2012-02-15 08:33:35 UTC
the only way anything like this can be stopped is by bringing in 'consensual combat only' in highsec. However if that happens then i think they should vastly reduce the number of highsec systems, and hopefully make low sec more busy. So this way everyone wins, the real highsec carebears get to live in peace, however with reduced systems, comes reduced resources etc, comes saturation, comes eventual frustration. So hopefully many will venture to live in low sec, thus giving the 'pvpers' more targets to shoot.

So win win all around

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#59 - 2012-02-15 08:56:26 UTC
A point which interests me is that, long ago, suicide gankers would fit plates and extenders and massively buffer their ganking ships because CONCORD did damage like everyone else and buffer gave them time for perhaps another volley or two.
When CONCORD became "Heal=0" it of course increased the hull costs involved in a gank because there was no chance of getting an extra volley off and so more ships are required to gank a large target.
A (probably) unintended consequence of the change though was to free up slots for the ganker and the fits can now load up more heavily on gank modules, SeBos and so forth.

Now, with the Alpha available from 1400mm 'nadoes and Apocs, returning CONCORD to their previous form would do little to change the environment except making tougher ships (combat ships, Freighters and Orcas primarily) more vulnerable but (as I don't recall having seen any explanation) I do wonder what the thinking was behind the change.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-02-15 09:00:09 UTC
this thread sure is full of whining

stop being targets

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
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