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[Issue] Titans and Tracking.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#61 - 2012-02-16 18:52:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Tallian Saotome wrote:


Sorry, you see slightly confused, as you just described the way they are actually supposed to work, not the way they really do.

BS blobs can be easily countered, usually by kiting or sigtanking. Neither tactic works against titans. NO tactic works against titans blobbed up, except more titans.

Titans and Superscarriers are fairly balanced alone, its simply that they were designed with the assumption no one would ever be able to build a blob of them.

CCP is no good at predicting their customer base What?

I honestly don't want titans nerfed, exactly, but rather limited so you can only field them in fleet support roles(my idea was to have their systems all locked, other than movement, unless they are giving FC bonuses to a certain critical mass of other pilots) because they work fine when you have 2-3 on the field. The problem is that with 20-30+, if you can't track that cruiser, your buddy 30km from you in the blob certainly can because you will ALWAYS be at 0 traversal to someone in a blob, and a titan gets to one shot you when that happens. BS fleets don't because you are not gonna be at 0 traversal against everyone.


You nailed it right there. but rather than trying to adjust mechanics to make Titan ineffective in blobs I would rather just see them put a cap on the number of Titans permitted to exist. there are a few ways of achieving this without pissing off all the Titan pilots. I am taking a lot of this from other threads but the idea's would work if implemented in the right way.

sorry for the threadnought but I think this is a good idea.

-there should be a cap of say 100 titans and maybe 300 super carriers in the entire universe.

- Existing ships should not get destroyed or nerfed but remove all the BPO's for all super caps from the game. The BPO owner would need to be compensated for not only the BPO but any ME/PE research invested into it as well. Eventually the numbers would drop down to the cap level as loses could not be replaced until the numbers reached a point where new BPC's would get seeded.

- what ever the caped number for each ship would be, it would apply to both the ships and the BPC's seeded in game. No BPC's would be seeded unless the number of existing BPC's plus the number of ships in existence dropped below the cap. The cap could be adjusted as needed to achieve the right balance or if the game population grows or shrinks.

- Eventually a new BPC would only be seeded when a super was destroyed. Possibly add a mechanic where the alliance who lost the super was not eligible to receive the seeded BPC to prevent large alliances from holding the largest fleet of supers. When they use them and lose one someone else gets the opportunity to acquire one. or maybe the BPC auction or better yet a lottery is only available to pilots who have the skills to pilot the ship but do not own one. the higher your skill level for that ship the higher chance you have of winning the BPC.
this would even allow former super cap pilots that no longer wish to fly them to benefit as they could win the lottery and sell the BPC.

-If you want to fly a super you would have a few options.
-train up all the skills and wait to win a BPC so you can build it or have it built by your alliance.
-buy a BPC from someone else who won it and does not want to fly one any more.
-buy the ship from someone who no longer wants it.

- limited BPC's would be seeded in game through a special lotery where all pilots with the skills to fly the ship would have a chance at winning a BPC.

If this was done supers would return to the rare battle changing super asset they were meant to be. If you risk it and lose it you may not get it back for some time regardless of how large and powerful your alliance is. regardless of whether you can afford to replacing it quickly or not. they would become far more strategic and guarded assets. This would allow smaller alliances to compete with larger ones as the ability to field super caps would have very little to do with the size of the alliance. although larger alliances with more super pilots would have a higher chance of having a pilot win a BPC lottery.

If the number of super caps was limited to a small number there would not only be no need to nerf them but they could be made even more powerful. Not being able to readily replace a lost super cap increases the risk and should offer more reward in the way of a more powerful ship. A single super should be able to jump into a battle and turn the tide. this is what they were meant to do. "OH NO a Titan just jumped in we are in trouble now."

An idea I have also had to give something back to the super cap pilots as I posted in other threads is to address the complaint many super pilots have of being stuck in their ship unable to dock. I think it would be game breaking to allow them to dock anywhere but they could add a docking ring outpost platform upgrade that would allow for super caps to dock at that station. This would allow alliances to build up specific stations for super cap staging without allowing them to dock any where.

Possibly they could also allow super caps to dock at capital ship maintenance arrays just like regular caps can dock at regular ship maintenance arrays. You can dock a dread in a regular ship maintenance array(at least I have seen it done in the past) it just takes up a large amount of the total storage. Do the same with supers in a large ship maintenance array. maybe it can hold only one titan or two moms but at least they could be docked.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#62 - 2012-02-16 19:14:00 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:


Stuff


You nailed it right there. but rather than trying to adjust mechanics to make Titan ineffective in blobs I would rather just see them put a cap on the number of Titans permitted to exist. there are a few ways of achieving this without pissing off all the Titan pilots. I am taking a lot of this from other threads but the idea's would work if implemented in the right way.

sorry for the threadnought but I think this is a good idea.

-there should be a cap of say 100 titans and maybe 300 super carriers in the entire universe.

- Existing ships should not get destroyed or nerfed but remove all the BPO's for all super caps from the game. The BPO owner would need to be compensated for not only the BPO but any ME/PE research invested into it as well. Eventually the numbers would drop down to the cap level as loses could not be replaced until the numbers reached a point where new BPC's would get seeded.

- what ever the caped number for each ship would be, it would apply to both the ships and the BPC's seeded in game. No BPC's would be seeded unless the number of existing BPC's plus the number of ships in existence dropped below the cap. The cap could be adjusted as needed to achieve the right balance or if the game population grows or shrinks.

- Eventually a new BPC would only be seeded when a super was destroyed. Possibly add a mechanic where the alliance who lost the super was not eligible to receive the seeded BPC to prevent large alliances from holding the largest fleet of supers. When they use them and lose one someone else gets the opportunity to acquire one. or maybe the BPC auction or better yet a lottery is only available to pilots who have the skills to pilot the ship but do not own one. the higher your skill level for that ship the higher chance you have of winning the BPC.
this would even allow former super cap pilots that no longer wish to fly them to benefit as they could win the lottery and sell the BPC.

-If you want to fly a super you would have a few options.
-train up all the skills and wait to win a BPC so you can build it or have it built by your alliance.
-buy a BPC from someone else who won it and does not want to fly one any more.
-buy the ship from someone who no longer wants it.

- limited BPC's would be seeded in game through a special lotery where all pilots with the skills to fly the ship would have a chance at winning a BPC.

If this was done supers would return to the rare battle changing super asset they were meant to be. If you risk it and lose it you may not get it back for some time regardless of how large and powerful your alliance is. regardless of whether you can afford to replacing it quickly or not. they would become far more strategic and guarded assets. This would allow smaller alliances to compete with larger ones as the ability to field super caps would have very little to do with the size of the alliance. although larger alliances with more super pilots would have a higher chance of having a pilot win a BPC lottery.

If the number of super caps was limited to a small number there would not only be no need to nerf them but they could be made even more powerful. Not being able to readily replace a lost super cap increases the risk and should offer more reward in the way of a more powerful ship. A single super should be able to jump into a battle and turn the tide. this is what they were meant to do. "OH NO a Titan just jumped in we are in trouble now."

An idea I have also had to give something back to the super cap pilots as I posted in other threads is to address the complaint many super pilots have of being stuck in their ship unable to dock. I think it would be game breaking to allow them to dock anywhere but they could add a docking ring outpost platform upgrade that would allow for super caps to dock at that station. This would allow alliances to build up specific stations for super cap staging without allowing them to dock any where.

Possibly they could also allow super caps to dock at capital ship maintenance arrays just like regular caps can dock at regular ship maintenance arrays. You can dock a dread in a regular ship maintenance array(at least I have seen it done in the past) it just takes up a large amount of the total storage. Do the same with supers in a large ship maintenance array. maybe it can hold only one titan or two moms but at least they could be docked.


This Postnaught is filled with "No".

To even allow super cap pilots from remotely entertaining the notion of rational debate of that without emotional outbursts and outright rejection, you should revise this post with the following facets taken into consideration:

Don't touch Super Cap BPOs.

Do not physically limit #s, rather attach a penalty to all ships in system using the #s fielded per fleet/grid/AU/System/LY.

Do not increase building cost, you will whine about more Titan tax in a month or 2 demanding further increases to the pricetag because of the proliferation.

Do not nerf Supers by boosting sub caps.

Docking super carriers is a kewl idea that will count in your favor, but unless super capital docking arrays are introduced into upgrade-able and or bigger stations, this will be a wet dream for ship owners.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#63 - 2012-02-16 19:16:59 UTC
Immunities are the grossest hack of game design, and are a sign of structural failure in the design when they appear.

Moving the signature radius penalty from "to hit" to "damage" is better design, especially since it can be consistent across all ship classes and not a special case for titans.

A sig radius penalty on damage should probably be a bit more than linear, maybe a power factor of 1.3-1.5 so that a titan really just can't be effective against frigates without pulling out medium drones...

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Lord Drokoth
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#64 - 2012-02-16 19:23:49 UTC
james1122 wrote:
The fix is pretty easy impo:

Remove gun/ship signature radius from the hit chance formula and scale overall damage done by the ratio of (ship sig / gun sig)

Wallah even if the titan gets a perfect hit on your 90sig scimitar its only going to do around 9/100 of the titans max damage to it.


This actually sounds like it would achieve a similar if not identical effect to what i suggested earlier and would be alot easier to impliment.
it would mean titans can no longer WTFBBQ subcaps.

Add this to a removal of fighters and rr mods from supercarriers... and you solve alot of the balancing problems. supercapitals should require carriers as support. as thats what carriers are designed to do.

Not to mention far better idea involving the ships ewar immunity...
Changing supercaps so they had sensor strenghs and warp strengh properties.. (say 15 for a SC and 30 for a titan) would mean that any pilot moronic enough to drop a solo super on a sub capital gang will pay for doing what he should never be able to do anyway. while also maintaining their excellent anti capital, andi structure, fleet boosting and bridging roles perfectly fine.