Jita Park Speakers Corner

Well, I will consider that feedback.

You are using the isk per hour, not the enjoyment per hour metric. My point is mining as an activity is what needs improvement. Making the bots more money per hour which is a side affect fo this change could just feed the common conspiracy theory that it is the nul power blocks that benefit the most from mining bots.

Start thinking about how the actual experience of mining could be made more challenging and fun and then you can understand what I want to bring to mining. The CSM 6 did nothing to address the fundemental improvements in mining that from direct experience I know that many miners would like.

It is fun per hour that matter most. Once the markets adjust the overal experience for high sec miners will be "same as it ever was".

My focus in Eve has been almost 100% mining focused, I have mined myself for years, I have represented miners in 2 previous CSMs.

Sorry about the lack of point by point rebuttal but I generally don't find members of nulsec power blocks to be very close to the feelings of the high sec small corp miners I seek to represent.

If you'd like to make a case that mining has an extensive career path with active and dynamic elements and that real skill can dramatically improve your results like it does in PvX ship combat or that it isn't about fun per hour but only isks per hour I'm happy to debate you.

PVE is crap, missions are repetitive, rats are repetitive and plexes are only enjoyable for the pot at the end of the rainbow. But people do it because it generates ISK.

Mining is also an isk generating venture. If you wanted to continue on from that then you would manufacture, research, market. To make the argument that mining should be improved because it is boring is to say that all base level isk generating activities should be made more enjoyable - it does not make sense as ISK is a means to an end. If miners want more than click click rinse repeat then the opportunities are there for them.

As for the "nullsec" (note the additional l there) powerblock thing - to think that we are only interested in our own little world is both ignorant and degrading. If you wish to make a stand for CSM then I would expect such a candidate to make full and considered response - not bare minimum posts with the intent to either fob off or disenfranchise the recipient.

You are right, no matter where you hail from, you deserve a specifc point by point rebutal.

1. I have run a mining corp for half a decade. It is about fun per hour that keeps people in Eve no matter what you do. So I am sorry but I disagree with you. If you disagree then I would suggest you play a game called "Progress Quest" where you don't have to do anything to accumulate "wealth".

2. Getting those skills to V will increase your profit, however, they don't change anything about what you can fly or how you mine. They do not make it more fun per hour of play. If you are mining to maximize isks per hour I would argue that you should consider other activities in Eve.

3. Imagine the UI presented you with a "mining display" where all elements are presented grpahicallyand you had to adjust elements to keep the laser producing. Depending on how those are shown in the UI it could be made much more difficult to script any sort of effective bot. If CCP was serious about making it extremely hard they could even take measures that would prevent any easy client side hacking that could circumvent that.

4. And you are wrong and my history in game make that clear.

There you go, the rebutal you requested.

If ISK was indeed the bottom line, they would be running missions for 20M ISK/hr, not 7M ISK/hr. For all the people I know who participate in mining, the main motivation is shooting the breeze, socializing, and participating in a low-attention activity where ISK is a convenient side effect. For w-space in particular, mining is something they do because they literally have nothing else to do: no signatures, no anomalies, waiting for reactions to complete before opening the exit and heading off to market.

That lady who stood up at FanFest 2011 is truly representative of hisec miners. They like their relatively relaxing hypnotic screen saver. That aspect of gameplay is important to them.



"Quick" is a relative term in EVE. The SP ceiling for mining is lower than the SP ceiling for, say, T2 cruisers. An Orca is a far less efficient mining boat than an Osprey, much less a Hulk. One of my characters is a perfect hulk pilot, but has fewer SP invested in mining than flying an Oracle with T2 large pulse lasers. Sure, the SP ceiling for T2 frigates is lower, if you stay away from EAS.

There is a big social aspect to mining in high sec. It is definitely what drives mining in my corp. Cooperative activities with a strong social element. How many times have you met a miner that was in corp "x" but left because there were never any mining ops? We hear that all the time from folks joining us from other corps.

The ability to keep mining an activity that can stay similar to the current experience if that is what the player wants is important. What I'd like to see is a new more active element. So if you want an more challenging and rewarding mining experience you can be more real time focused and get better rewards. Say a new family of realtime active mining lasers that you have to focus on the 'roid. Or another class of mining droids that you control real time. Just some brainstorming of possible new mining experiences.


An idea I still come back to us comets, something that would add some new skills, something you would have to mine "actively" and if done right could become somethat that as your real skill improves so do your outcomes.

There will be some VoR discussions during the elections with miners to see if we can develop some ideas to present to CCP so that maybe the miners can finally get some long overdue attention.

I have long held that the CSM is not mean to be Eve's "feature farries" to CCP. The CSM 6 seems to have changed that to being CCPs thought leaders in Eve. So I would absolutely strongly advocate the idea of new mining experience to CCP as part of the CSM 7.

If you search some of my posts in the general discsussion section (may be the old forums by now) you'll see I made a call out to CCP to ignore the shouty minority and let the game designers do their job and to surprise us with their awesomeness. Sadly, that seemed to fall on deaf ears.

I am just offering ideas in order to start dialogs. I have no expectation that anything I suggest gets implements as suggested. I offered those ideas in response to someone asking to clarify what I meant by new mining experiences.

What my job in the CSM would be is to make sure that CCP comes up with that new mining experience because I believe there is a strong interest in one in the mining player community.

And as for my experience, I have direct experience in the games industry and in fact every time you play Eve you are usng a graphics pipeline I helped invent.

So could you explain again what your post was trying to accomplish?

weaselior has a good point: there is literally no candidate on this earth (possible exception being helicity, should he decide to run) that is as keen on seeing hisec belts packed with happy miners as me















so i can murder them and coat my orca in their entrails, and then scam them for protection money, and then kill them again~

They won't be happy for too long if you do that.

But the happiness is transferred from them elsewhere so I guess in total society should not be worse off.

Mining is great, it gets us minerals to build more ships. Well, the drones have them beat, but that might change.

Still, I'm sure industrious miners will make up the shortfall if such a change were to occur, be mining boring or not.