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Issler Dainze for CSM7! Hear the bears roar!

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#861 - 2012-03-20 19:58:39 UTC
hans do not try to stop this trainwreck we have only a few hours left and I insist on getting every little bit of joy out of isslerposts before she disappears into her shame hole for another year

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#862 - 2012-03-20 20:19:10 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

As for my statement that Hans doesn't represent the players I seek to represent. Here is a simple example. Last night Hans and I were both cruising through the trade hubs spread our message. The difference was I wasn't being chased by concord while I did it. Hans was bright red because his play style has resulted in seriously negative security status. Not what you would expect from someone that would be a "high sec" candidate.

Hans has some great ideas and a large base of players he can do a great job for. But the segment I choose to represent, the high sec miner, is not a group he has ever focused on and would likely never focus on. Because his play style isn't related to that segment of players. That isn't an attack, that is a simple fact.


There is a good reason I wasn't cruising empire space in any of my mining characters (I have several, with maxed skills). I prefer they remain anonymous and not be targeted, same as most people do with their other characters.

I simply can't believe how flippantly you keep using words like "facts" and "proof" without even thinking through your statements. The idea that because ONE of my characters engages in occasional piracy means I cannot represent mining interests, is unfounded. Really, the idea that in-game actions have ANY bearing on a candidates ability to listen to the community and represent their interests is unfounded. My work ethic and history speak for themselves. I have backed up my commitment to the players with ACTIONS that began long before campaign season. I have done far more than sit back and say "I'm ________'s friend, vote for me".

Issler, you need to just stop. Continuing to make blatantly ignorant statements about other candidates is by nature attacking them. Posting private email in an attempt to mislead the public about my relationship with other candidates is by nature attacking them.

You have disrespected my platform, my writings, my lengthy threads, and my work with the community multiple times now, and you continue to do so. This is behavior unbecoming of a CSM member, and you are only giving voters reason NOT to vote for you during these crucial last few hours.

I've tried to give you advice throughout the campaign that you've repeatedly ignored, and that continue to get you into trouble. Here is my last piece of advice - anyone involved with the forums heavily has already cast you vote. You are wasting your time here, and making yourself look more foolish. End this soapboxing, stop posting, and get back to vote-grinding in game. It is the only thing you can do to get more votes at this point, and that is a FACT.


I stand by everything I've said about you. That you aren't a high sec miner but now seem to want to be one is a very strange development from a candidate that seems to be doing well by all indications.

A lot of miners wouldn't support a candidate that partakes in any piracy, did that ever occur to you? That you choose to hide your mining characters seem to indicate you want to separate yourself from the plight of the miners.

You've done more in this post to discredit you with any real high sec miner than anything I said.

Let's see, pirate.... afraid to let anyone know who your mining alts are because you might get ganked....

You aren't running as a miner and don't need to be! That should be fine by you!

You have a large segment of players that you seem well suited to represent, why isn't that enough for you? What's with all this last minute vote grabbing? I'm not out trying to claim I'm Captain Awesome for every segment of Eve, why do you need to now?

I take back everything nice I said about you.

Your ego is writing checks you mind can't cash sir! You are not the hero of every aspect of Eve!

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#863 - 2012-03-20 20:20:29 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
hans do not try to stop this trainwreck we have only a few hours left and I insist on getting every little bit of joy out of isslerposts before she disappears into her shame hole for another year



I feel a little sad, I don't know how you'll fill your days without me around to troll! Lol

Issler
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#864 - 2012-03-20 20:20:35 UTC
"miners don't need anyone with a brain, they need someone who tries to run on mindless tribalism" - the miner's friend

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#865 - 2012-03-20 20:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Issler Dainze wrote:

PLEASE CITE ONE UNBASED CLAIM!!

Again, if you have an issue to discuss please let me know what it is. But unless you can cite those unbased claims your going on about it seems we've hit an impasse.


Fair enough:

Issler Dainze wrote:
He described Seleene as a pandering and not worthy of reelection.


and yet we have:

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I have great respect for Seleene and Trebor both, they've worked hard during their terms as CSM6 members and are both worthy of re-election. Votes for either of them would be very well-spent.


so

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.


For which you haven't.



However to be honest I think Hans puts it quite succintly that it's a collection of assumptions and opinions aswell as these unbased claims that suggest you don't research your material and/or just use your own derived blinkered "truths" rather than empirical evidence to support things. I do find it interesting also that he subsequently does have "HANs on" (sorry for the pun) experience in the subject matter you seem to think he's unqualified to represent.

Anyhow I've had enough of the tall stories from a so called "honest" candidate. Don't wish you any success in the CSM as a result. And have had enough of you simply avoiding your errors further or wanting to simply dismiss them with the same old arrogance. Other candidates on the CSM6 have marked similar undesirable characteristics of this nature.

Also if you persist in your argument that limited experience means an incapable candidate, I would look to your own set of experiences and interests as surely your restricted set would suggest a poorly rounded candidate for the CSM. Fortunatley for you I don't put much stock in this kind of thinking or your arguments too much here. But recognise that candidates may have particular strengths that they can collectively use aswell as player interest and opinion.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Prince Kobol
#866 - 2012-03-20 20:33:15 UTC
Issler Dainze - if you think miners would not vote for somebody who enjoys piracy then you are clueless.

I mine, build and sell capital ships on one of my alts and I have no problems with anybody who plays Eve the way they want to play.

The only conditional is that they play with in the rules that have been set out by CCP, so no using exploits, botting etc..
Pelador Rova
No Luck Corp
#867 - 2012-03-20 20:37:38 UTC
I'm an industrialist prevelant in High sec and I voted for Hans.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#868 - 2012-03-20 20:38:54 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
hans do not try to stop this trainwreck we have only a few hours left and I insist on getting every little bit of joy out of isslerposts before she disappears into her shame hole for another year


Apparently there's nothing I can do to stop it, its out of my hands now. I tried my best.


Issler, go do a thorough review of my killboard, show us some suicide ganks, and you can continue with the completely silly argument that my security status means that I can't represent miner interests. Even if I WAS engaging in high sec aggression - it wouldn't have bearing on the job I could do for them. How many war targets have I shot all season long and still have their votes? EVE players are smart enough to know the difference between who you shoot in game, and whether you're vouching for them on the council.

This is what you don't seem to understand. The work of the CSM is listening to players, taking notes on what matters to them, and forwarding this information to CCP, and providing them with good advice. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IN-GAME ACTIONS. Again, there are several hours left in the polls. Instead of being out there looking for more votes, you're taking time here to demonstrate to the public your lack of understanding about how to be an effective CSM member.

You're claiming I'm just now beginning to call myself a miner, despite the fact I've been mining for years. What I didn't do this election was pretend that calling myself anything actually meant anything. That is the naive approach. I chose instead to prove to voters I can do the job of a CSM, by doing the job of a CSM before the election even began.

And yet still, you declare that because I engage neutrals in low sec, I am somehow unfit to work with high sec miners. Prove that I'm a menace, show the public some killmails. Use FACTS or be forever on the record, once again, blatantly lying about another candidate in an attempt to discredit them with a particular voting group you've latched yourself on to and claim as your own.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#869 - 2012-03-20 20:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Issler Dainze
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

PLEASE CITE ONE UNBASED CLAIM!!

Again, if you have an issue to discuss please let me know what it is. But unless you can cite those unbased claims your going on about it seems we've hit an impasse.


Fair enough:

Issler Dainze wrote:
He described Seleene as a pandering and not worthy of reelection.


and yet we have:

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I have great respect for Seleene and Trebor both, they've worked hard during their terms as CSM6 members and are both worthy of re-election. Votes for either of them would be very well-spent.


so

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.


For which you haven't.



However to be honest I think Hans puts it quite succintly that it's a collection of assumptions and opinions aswell as these unbased claims that suggest you don't research your material and/or just use your own derived blinkered "truths" rather than empirical evidence to support things. I do find it interesting also that he subsequently does have "HANs on" (sorry for the pun) experience in the subject matter you seem to think he's unqualified to represent.

Anyhow I've had enough of the tall stories from a so called "honest" candidate. Don't wish you any success in the CSM as a result. And have had enough of you simply avoiding your errors further or wanting to simply dismiss them with the same old arrogance. Other candidates on the CSM7 have similar undesirable characteristics of this nature.

Also if you persist in your argument that limited experience means an incapable candidate, I would look to your own set of experiences and interests as surely your restricted set would suggest a poorly rounded candidate for the CSM. Fortunatley for you I don't put much stock in this kind of thinking or your arguments too much here. But recognise that candidates may have particular strengths that they can collectively use aswell as player interest and opinion.


You certainly are entitled to have an opinion. Did you know that once a person makes up their mind the more evidence to the contrary the harder that person commits to it? Look for a book called "You are not so smart" to read more about it. You are clearly dug in and way past that point about this. So I won't bother to discuss it with you any further since you haven't read or thought a bit about my response.

Fly safe sir!

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
Tried to support Hans but he isn't the "Hero of All Eve" just the "Hero of much of Eve" which should be enough
CSM 7 Candidate
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#870 - 2012-03-20 20:44:58 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Did you know that once a person makes up their mind the more evidence to the contrary the harder that person commits to it? Look for a book called "You are not so smart" to read more about it. You are clearly dug in and way past that point about this.

I know there's an old adage about a "kettle" that is relevant here. Having trouble remembering it...

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#871 - 2012-03-20 20:45:36 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
hans do not try to stop this trainwreck we have only a few hours left and I insist on getting every little bit of joy out of isslerposts before she disappears into her shame hole for another year


Apparently there's nothing I can do to stop it, its out of my hands now. I tried my best.


Issler, go do a thorough review of my killboard, show us some suicide ganks, and you can continue with the completely silly argument that my security status means that I can't represent miner interests. Even if I WAS engaging in high sec aggression - it wouldn't have bearing on the job I could do for them. How many war targets have I shot all season long and still have their votes? EVE players are smart enough to know the difference between who you shoot in game, and whether you're vouching for them on the council.

This is what you don't seem to understand. The work of the CSM is listening to players, taking notes on what matters to them, and forwarding this information to CCP, and providing them with good advice. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IN-GAME ACTIONS. Again, there are several hours left in the polls. Instead of being out there looking for more votes, you're taking time here to demonstrate to the public your lack of understanding about how to be an effective CSM member.

You're claiming I'm just now beginning to call myself a miner, despite the fact I've been mining for years. What I didn't do this election was pretend that calling myself anything actually meant anything. That is the naive approach. I chose instead to prove to voters I can do the job of a CSM, by doing the job of a CSM before the election even began.

And yet still, you declare that because I engage neutrals in low sec, I am somehow unfit to work with high sec miners. Prove that I'm a menace, show the public some killmails. Use FACTS or be forever on the record, once again, blatantly lying about another candidate in an attempt to discredit them with a particular voting group you've latched yourself on to and claim as your own.



Yes, you are hero to all, I support your election, Now please just go away! I did not attack you. But you are not a mining candidate. Fact, not an attack and if your ego wasn't the size of a dirigible you'd be happy being known in this election as the candidate that stands to support an important segment of Eve (even if that doesn't include high sec miners).

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#872 - 2012-03-20 20:46:46 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Did you know that once a person makes up their mind the more evidence to the contrary the harder that person commits to it? Look for a book called "You are not so smart" to read more about it. You are clearly dug in and way past that point about this.

I know there's an old adage about a "kettle" that is relevant here. Having trouble remembering it...


I'm not immure to the effect which is why I felt we were at an impasse. I'm just willing to admit it.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#873 - 2012-03-20 20:46:47 UTC
an ego the size of a dirigible beats a head that closely resembles a dirigible in its contents

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Sidus Sarmiang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#874 - 2012-03-20 20:46:58 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

PLEASE CITE ONE UNBASED CLAIM!!

Again, if you have an issue to discuss please let me know what it is. But unless you can cite those unbased claims your going on about it seems we've hit an impasse.


Fair enough:

Issler Dainze wrote:
He described Seleene as a pandering and not worthy of reelection.


and yet we have:

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I have great respect for Seleene and Trebor both, they've worked hard during their terms as CSM6 members and are both worthy of re-election. Votes for either of them would be very well-spent.


so

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.


For which you haven't.



However to be honest I think Hans puts it quite succintly that it's a collection of assumptions and opinions aswell as these unbased claims that suggest you don't research your material and/or just use your own derived blinkered "truths" rather than empirical evidence to support things. I do find it interesting also that he subsequently does have "HANs on" (sorry for the pun) experience in the subject matter you seem to think he's unqualified to represent.

Anyhow I've had enough of the tall stories from a so called "honest" candidate. Don't wish you any success in the CSM as a result. And have had enough of you simply avoiding your errors further or wanting to simply dismiss them with the same old arrogance. Other candidates on the CSM6 have marked similar undesirable characteristics of this nature.

Also if you persist in your argument that limited experience means an incapable candidate, I would look to your own set of experiences and interests as surely your restricted set would suggest a poorly rounded candidate for the CSM. Fortunatley for you I don't put much stock in this kind of thinking or your arguments too much here. But recognise that candidates may have particular strengths that they can collectively use aswell as player interest and opinion.




Grumpy Owly I know you've posted against goons in the past, but lets all unite for a moment in mockery of this terrible, terrible candidate. Some things are funny enough to set out differences aside over.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#875 - 2012-03-20 20:52:10 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:




Grumpy Owly I know you've posted against goons in the past, but lets all unite for a moment in mockery of this terrible, terrible candidate. Some things are funny enough to set out differences aside over.



Grumpy! I bet for only 500 million he can get you into the goons!! Big smile I'm feeling a lot of love in this post!

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#876 - 2012-03-20 20:56:46 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

PLEASE CITE ONE UNBASED CLAIM!!

Again, if you have an issue to discuss please let me know what it is. But unless you can cite those unbased claims your going on about it seems we've hit an impasse.


Fair enough:

Issler Dainze wrote:
He described Seleene as a pandering and not worthy of reelection.


and yet we have:

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I have great respect for Seleene and Trebor both, they've worked hard during their terms as CSM6 members and are both worthy of re-election. Votes for either of them would be very well-spent.


so

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.


For which you haven't.



However to be honest I think Hans puts it quite succintly that it's a collection of assumptions and opinions aswell as these unbased claims that suggest you don't research your material and/or just use your own derived blinkered "truths" rather than empirical evidence to support things. I do find it interesting also that he subsequently does have "HANs on" (sorry for the pun) experience in the subject matter you seem to think he's unqualified to represent.

Anyhow I've had enough of the tall stories from a so called "honest" candidate. Don't wish you any success in the CSM as a result. And have had enough of you simply avoiding your errors further or wanting to simply dismiss them with the same old arrogance. Other candidates on the CSM6 have marked similar undesirable characteristics of this nature.

Also if you persist in your argument that limited experience means an incapable candidate, I would look to your own set of experiences and interests as surely your restricted set would suggest a poorly rounded candidate for the CSM. Fortunatley for you I don't put much stock in this kind of thinking or your arguments too much here. But recognise that candidates may have particular strengths that they can collectively use aswell as player interest and opinion.


Did Hans not say

(as supposed to Trebor, Seleene, etc, who all pander)

In the Eve mail he sent me personally? Did you bother to read it? So I had a basis for my position. This is what he really felt at the beginning of the election. I can only take him at his word.

Now I'll stop.

Issler Daine
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#877 - 2012-03-20 21:00:25 UTC
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:


Grumpy Owly I know you've posted against goons in the past, but lets all unite for a moment in mockery of this terrible, terrible candidate. Some things are funny enough to set out differences aside over.



I think I've done enough for my own personal perspective to get a better understanding of the true colours of this candidate. I don't want to go all e-lawyer on Issler as a part of a campaign process, especially not with less than 24 hours to go. I've read enough, even tried to support Issler previously with posts as per some of the attacks to her campaign and posting where it was equally unfounded.

So in short I don't want to go on an offensive where its unwarrented. There is enough supporting material to qualify my concerns to continue supporting this candidates campaign but will leave it to other players discretion. For certain I won't step in to support the candidate any more with points given what I now know if that is a suitable compromise, seeing as i can't justify doing so anymore.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#878 - 2012-03-20 21:04:37 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:


Grumpy Owly I know you've posted against goons in the past, but lets all unite for a moment in mockery of this terrible, terrible candidate. Some things are funny enough to set out differences aside over.



I think I've done enough for my own personal perspective to get a better understanding of the true colours of this candidate. I don't want to go all e-lawyer on Issler as a part of a campaign process, especially not with less than 24 hours to go. I've read enough, even tried to support Issler previously with posts as per some of the attacks to her campaign and posting where it was equally unfounded.

So in short I don't want to go on an offensive where its unwarrented. There is enough supporting material to qualify my concerns to continue supporting this candidates campaign but will leave it to other players discretion. For certain I won't step in to support the candidate any more with points given what I now know if that is a suitable compromise, seeing as i can't justify doing so anymore.


So you choose to ignore the evidence for basis of my claim that Hans described the other candidates as pandering?

OK, no worries....

Issler
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#879 - 2012-03-20 21:09:56 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

Yes, you are hero to all, I support your election, Now please just go away! I did not attack you. But you are not a mining candidate. Fact, not an attack and if your ego wasn't the size of a dirigible you'd be happy being known in this election as the candidate that stands to support an important segment of Eve (even if that doesn't include high sec miners).


I don't think you even understand what "attacking a candidate" is, because you just did it again. You're being sarcastic, telling everyone I'm not a mining candidate (despite the fact that you have industrialists in your own thread supporting me) and claiming that my ego is somehow out of control.

But by all means, keep at it. I'm stuck away from home right now, I couldn't be logged in stumping for votes if I wanted to. You have an opportunity here to catch up with voters, and yet you continue to squander it by taking up precious time trying to discredit me with remarks about my mining credibility.

The things you say now, and the way you conduct yourself in the final hours here, are how you are going to be remembered should you ever choose to campaign again. You can end the foot stomping and finger pointing, and get to work convincing people to vote for you, or you can continue and forever be known as the candidate who completely unraveled at the end of their race, who can't be trusted to communicate securely or respectfully, and responds to criticism with indignant anger instead of a constructive, grounded, rebuttal.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#880 - 2012-03-20 21:11:27 UTC
hans how do you respond to charges that by advocating people vote for you instead of other candidates you have viciously slandered those other candidates

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.