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Issler Dainze for CSM7! Hear the bears roar!

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#841 - 2012-03-20 18:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.

I used less than 10 mins to find actual facts to despoil your attempts to undermine Hans position about Mining.

So please where is this evidence to suggest Hans is less than supportive of Selene and Trebor? So far all we have seen is your word on a position about Hans and subsequently he has remarked he is supportive of their campaigns.

Where is the validity in your "100% honesty" campaign. As the opinions only you are projecting or the incorrect statements I already have shown to be incorrect say otherwise. Where's the evidence?

If you can't produce anything to support your claims, and yet have been shown to be incorrect, I'd suggest using humble pie and perhaps an apology?

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#842 - 2012-03-20 18:33:09 UTC
one of the more hilarious things is issler still hasn't figured out the concept of a forums signature

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#843 - 2012-03-20 18:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Issler Dainze
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I never brought it up because I have been trying to keep this a positive campaign. So please show me the Hans being about making mining more fun. Never said that and he sure hasn't made it front and center in his campaign.[/quote

As you request, nicely front and center in his campaign

[quote=Hans Jagerblitzen][quote=Joyitii]Mining thoughts....[/quote

Checked out the thread. Textural mapping or spin rate variation to distinguish between asteroids that are named the same on overview, but contain varying amounts of ore is brilliant. It is perhaps the most beautiful solution to the problem I've seen so far. And developmentally, this makes a lot of sense. We've just overhauled planets, nebulas, warp tunnels, and now the ships themselves.....leaving asteroid belts as sadly one of the most graphically outdated features in the game. It makes absolute sense to me to build a "captcha" into the markings of the asteroids, their shape, or their motion, and solve the botting issue without even having to do much more work than they should be doing anyways to keep up with their artwork schedule. DEATH TO ALL BOTS.

I favor solutions that elevate mining as a profession. I also believe in addressing problems at their root. Currently mining is not a well-respected profession, despite it being such a critical part of the EvE economy. One of the root causes of this is that the game mechanics are so simplistic that artificial intelligence can substitute for human intuition. This is not the fault of the players. The resulting arguments over who is botting and who isn't absolute tear the EvE community to shreds year after year. It fuels griefing, it causes massive distrust amongst all sorts of player entities, even reaching the CSM itself. This is in no way the kind of "good conflict" that drives game activity and keeps things fun. It's quite the opposite. If we can convince CCP there's an accessible solution to the bot problem, that they can even sell well as part of an expansion (customers love new shineys!) I think its a win-win-win for the entire EvE community. Consider this a solution I can push to the developers if elected, until someone shows me something better.


Also has suggestions in his campaign platform of a similar nature. These comments are well over a month old

As such all I see is a vain attempt to claim possesion or a monopoly on certain elements of gameplay or ideas in your campaign Issler

I would have thought to maintain respect you would have researched these claims and not been so insular to believe your either the only candidate that has concerns about these views or that others might be incapable of seeing it as an issue

It's left with a bad view of you personally. I had some aspect of respect previously and sympathy from certain trolling and threadnaughting behaviour to your campaign position due to the Goons. But now you seem to have resorted to similar unfounded tactics in what I believe now is to try a poistion yourself at the 11th hour as the singular goto candidate on mining or industrial work, presumably to scoop up any last votes associated with that area

I would have thought it more important to keep your respect and try to work with other candidates at this point in the election campaign as you may end up having to work as a colleague on the CSM if succesfull with certain individuals

I and my alts have already voted and they include some aspect of industrial work including some portion of mining but isn't the main focus. But they did not vote for you and I'm glad now, as your tolerances for others or the blinkered crusade you have adopted has done nothing for me but to see you as an slightly irrational pilot with a zealous focus to one area that may jeapordise an ability to see other issues as a result

All the best for the campaign still but you might just have lost any CSM 8 credibility with me as a result also.


There is nothing "unfounded" in my response, if there is could you point it out to me

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point. His play style and interest are not high sec focused or mining focused which mine have consistently been for the eight plus years I've been in Eve. I haven't attacked him nor have I attempted lure his voters. The same can be said for my supporters. That can no longer be said for Hans or some of his supporters. Hans had run a great campaign and looks to doing very well. But he started out planning on displacing me and undermining my support from the start

I'm sorry if you feel I've lost credibility with you, you seem like a reasonable fellow, but I've been consistent, honest and positive throughout this campaign despite the constant barrage of trolls and attacks

I've run this campaign on some very simple ideas. High sec can come together and get a voice in the CSM 7. Miners are way overdue for some attention from CCP and finally if I am elected I will make sure the ideas presented by me to the CSM/CCP are the refined with the players actively involved. If that isn't what you want from a candidate then I'm not the person you should support

As for CSM 8, I am definitely not spending any time thinking about the, I'm just trying to survive CSM 7! [:)

Issler Dainz
The Miner's Frien
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#844 - 2012-03-20 18:56:04 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
one of the more hilarious things is issler still hasn't figured out the concept of a forums signature


I sign my posts because it seems to annoy the goons. We've been over this before. Again, you can do better.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#845 - 2012-03-20 18:58:32 UTC
Andski wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I am definitely against RMT.

funny how you said that the only people who are against RMT are those without the $$$ (and certainly not CCP who probably doesn't like the higher operating costs from all the 23.5/7 bots) and how there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to sell off your assets for real money



Late to the party I see, this claim that I support this has already been debunked. I did use this argument to get some less than brilliant goons wrapped around the axle in a chat at the beginning of the election.

Issler
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#846 - 2012-03-20 19:00:35 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
one of the more hilarious things is issler still hasn't figured out the concept of a forums signature


I sign my posts because it seems to annoy the goons. We've been over this before. Again, you can do better.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate

no you have not figured out the concept of a forums signature, that automatically appends a signature to your post so you stop typoing it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#847 - 2012-03-20 19:01:28 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Andski wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
I am definitely against RMT.

funny how you said that the only people who are against RMT are those without the $$$ (and certainly not CCP who probably doesn't like the higher operating costs from all the 23.5/7 bots) and how there's no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to sell off your assets for real money



Late to the party I see, this claim that I support this has already been debunked. I did use this argument to get some less than brilliant goons wrapped around the axle in a chat at the beginning of the election.

Issler

"by senslessly thrashing me on my dumb statements, you have merely fallen into my trap where i wanted you to senselessly thrash me on my dumb comments! now you know what it is to be owned"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Avila Cracko
#848 - 2012-03-20 19:02:42 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
one of the more hilarious things is issler still hasn't figured out the concept of a forums signature


I sign my posts because it seems to annoy the goons. We've been over this before. Again, you can do better.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate

no you have not figured out the concept of a forums signature, that automatically appends a signature to your post so you stop typoing it



But that way she can't change it and adapt ti to every post.

@ Issler
Indy players believe in you!

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#849 - 2012-03-20 19:03:31 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#850 - 2012-03-20 19:06:36 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Then please cite evidence to support your claims Issler, because all evidence points to the contrary.

I used less than 10 mins to find actual facts to despoil your attempts to undermine Hans position about Mining.

So please where is this evidence to suggest Hans is less than supportive of Selene and Trebor? So far all we have seen is your word on a position about Hans and subsequently he has remarked he is supportive of their campaigns.

Where is the validity in your "100% honesty" campaign. As the opinions only you are projecting or the incorrect statements I already have shown to be incorrect say otherwise. Where's the evidence?

If you can't produce anything to support your claims, and yet have been shown to be incorrect, I'd suggest using humble pie and perhaps an apology?


You can't claim it is that important to him if it took you 10 minutes to find.

Front and center is not 174th post in a thread and it is buried in the bible of everything in Eve corrected Hans has provided.

I have made mining all I'm really talking about. We couldn't have been more apart in how we ran our campaigns.

Less support, did you read his email, he called them panderers.

What incorrect statement have I made?

Sorry you have lost faith in me, but clearly you never really had much to start if you are making such a huge effort to elevate Hans and ignore his own mail to me I share.

Thanks for what you have posted in my threads, good luck in the future, fly safe. I'm going back to talking about issues and not spending any more time responding to personal attacks.

If you want to talk issue, then sure, I'm all ears. If you want rake the muck, I have better things to do.

Also as a final comment, at no time have I attacked Hans, I've been pretty complimentary in fact, what I have said and I'll say it again is we ran for CSM 7 with very different approaches.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#851 - 2012-03-20 19:08:35 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
one of the more hilarious things is issler still hasn't figured out the concept of a forums signature


I sign my posts because it seems to annoy the goons. We've been over this before. Again, you can do better.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate

no you have not figured out the concept of a forums signature, that automatically appends a signature to your post so you stop typoing it


I don't because I change them often based on the response.

Issler Dainze
Often with a different Signature!
Signing Posts to annoy the people that deserve annoying!
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#852 - 2012-03-20 19:14:20 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue


See, now this a slightly better troll than most of the recent ones.

Thanks for starting to take the time to show you really care about the quality of your forum harassment! It makes me feel special!

Issler Dainze
No telling what could be in the sig this time!
The Miner's Friend!
Running an honest and positive campaign!
On very simple ideas!
Like being the Miner's Friend in the CSM 7
Or wanting CCP to open the door
Or that High Sec deserves a voice in the CSM
CSM 7 Candidate
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#853 - 2012-03-20 19:15:33 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue


Actually its this kind of self righteous assumed monopoly on ideas that makes this scary.

And I guess no evidence to your claims above either as you suggested just continual ravings to points you can't backup. Such amazing integrity. Especially when there is hard evidence to contradict your statements, which you now also simply want to dismiss.

For me I'm seeing the true Issler now, no longer wishing you any success in the CSM.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#854 - 2012-03-20 19:24:16 UTC
You know? I am like on my second bag of popcorn.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#855 - 2012-03-20 19:26:51 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue


Actually its this kind of self righteous assumed monopoly on ideas that makes this scary.

And I guess no evidence to your claims above either as you suggested just continual ravings to points you can't backup. Such amazing integrity. Especially when there is hard evidence to contradict your statements, which you now also simply want to dismiss.

For me I'm seeing the true Issler now, no longer wishing you any success in the CSM.


How can I be told that I am claiming a monopoly on ideas when my whole platform is based on bringing the best of the players ideas to the CSM?

As for my statement that Hans doesn't represent the players I seek to represent. Here is a simple example. Last night Hans and I were both cruising through the trade hubs spread our message. The difference was I wasn't being chased by concord while I did it. Hans was bright red because his play style has resulted in seriously negative security status. Not what you would expect from someone that would be a "high sec" candidate.

Hans has some great ideas and a large base of players he can do a great job for. But the segment I choose to represent, the high sec miner, is not a group he has ever focused on and would likely never focus on. Because his play style isn't related to that segment of players. That isn't an attack, that is a simple fact.

Can Hans do a great job for a sizable part of Eve? Yes!
Is Hans more representative of high sec miners? No, not at all.

Not an attack, a fact. Sorry if facts make you support me less because I tend to rely on facts and reality a lot in my approach o life.

Issler Dainze
Sorry I lost Grumpy Owl
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#856 - 2012-03-20 19:28:42 UTC
Kai Tel wrote:
You know? I am like on my second bag of popcorn.


If I manage to other success in the CSM 7 election, my threads were some interesting reading.....

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#857 - 2012-03-20 19:33:28 UTC
For folks that complained about me saying I believed I represent high miners more than Hans, I'll share this from Hans' own campaign thread.

Jade Constantine wrote:
Keep voting Hans for a lowsec/FW/small gang focus for the next development cycle!


I think that is a better description of who he supports and what the heck is wrong with that?

That is a great segment of players and what it seemed to me to be the segment Hans set out to represent.

The CSM is healthier if we have a diverse group of members with varied focus. The path to success is not to try and claim you are better at representing every segment in Eve than the other guy because you can't be.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
CSM 7 Candidate
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#858 - 2012-03-20 19:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Issler Dainze wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue


Actually its this kind of self righteous assumed monopoly on ideas that makes this scary.

And I guess no evidence to your claims above either as you suggested just continual ravings to points you can't backup. Such amazing integrity. Especially when there is hard evidence to contradict your statements, which you now also simply want to dismiss.

For me I'm seeing the true Issler now, no longer wishing you any success in the CSM.


How can I be told that I am claiming a monopoly on ideas when my whole platform is based on bringing the best of the players ideas to the CSM?


Since you are suggesting that someone "can't" claim to support a particular group. Its directly prohibitive by definition and as such assumes you have some singular interest that others can't in any way offer interest or support to.

You asked to see where Hans has suggested that mining could be more fun, as you beleived there was no evidence, I supported that with evidence that took me no time to find by using an EvE search feature. You now want to dismiss it as invalid so that it doesnt hurt your claim you made in error about another candidate.

You can't support your other claims which are in effect "mud" slinging attempts to discredit another candidate other than your own opinion.

It's not my problem that you have adopted a "theme" or narrow set of interests to represent. But it does not in anyway give you some kind of special right to suggest that others are unable to utilise the subject material in their own campaigns or actually show an interest into your area you think you have some special claim to.

I'm sure Hans will be humble and suggest he may not be the most experienced miner. For which you may have better experience in representing. But its does not mean it has to be an outright exclusion principal, or that some aspect of awareness cannot be derived.

My main problem is the fact you are using unbased claims for which there is contrary evidence and not backing any of your points up except with arrogance and opinion. That is why you have lost my support.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#859 - 2012-03-20 19:51:04 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:

Hans can't claim to be trying to support the same group of players I am trying to support. That is the point.

that's an embarassment to your campaign, as all the "non-mining" candidates have better ideas, better analysis, and better platforms on the issue of mining

in other words you are such a failure you can't even beat people on your pet issue


Actually its this kind of self righteous assumed monopoly on ideas that makes this scary.

And I guess no evidence to your claims above either as you suggested just continual ravings to points you can't backup. Such amazing integrity. Especially when there is hard evidence to contradict your statements, which you now also simply want to dismiss.

For me I'm seeing the true Issler now, no longer wishing you any success in the CSM.


How can I be told that I am claiming a monopoly on ideas when my whole platform is based on bringing the best of the players ideas to the CSM?


Since you are suggesting that someone "can't" claim to support a particular group. Its directly prohibitive by definition and as such assumes you have some singular interest that others can't in any way offer interest or support to.

You asked to see where Hans has suggested that mining could be more fun, as you beleived there was no evidence, I supported that with evidence that took me no time to find by using an EvE search feature. You now want to dismiss it as invalid so that it doesnt hurt your claim you made in error about another candidate.

You can't support your other claims which are in effect "mud" slinging attempts to discredit another candidate other than your own opinion.

It's not my problem that you have adopted a "theme" or narrow set of interests to represent. But it does not in anyway give you some kind of special right to suggest that others are unable to utilise the subject material in their own campaigns.

I'm sure Hans will be humble and suggest he may not be the most experienced miner. For which you may have better experience in representing. But its does not mean it has to be an outright exclusion principal, or that some aspect of awareness cannot be derived.

My main problem is the fact you are using unbased claims for which there is contrary evidence and not backing any of your points up expcept with arrogance and opinion. That is why you have lost my support.


Again, I never claimed Hans didn't have mining ideas, I said he wasn't focusing his campaign on them. I would type it in bigger letters if I could so after I point that out yet again you might actually process that.

I didn't mud sling! How much more positive could I be towards Hans other than say vote for him which I am not going to do.

Again, you have no interest in reading what I've written and responding to that. You've made you mind up and you want to just keep re-posting the same inaccurate statements.

PLEASE CITE ONE UNBASED CLAIM!!

What I claimed and is easy to see if mining was not one of Hans' major areas of focus in his campaign. There is nothing wrong with that, but if you are a miner you are better served by a candidate that started out with that as their primary focus.

Your own claim that it took you 10 minutes to find Hans talking about mining proves it isn't what he is running on. You can see I am running on mining instantly.

So you've made up your mind, you clearly aren't reading anything I've written, what is your goal so I can help you on your way. Telling me you won't support me for CSM 8? OK, no worries, no idea if I'd run for CSM 8. To tell you to vote or Hans? You should if you feel he is the best candidate?

To ignore my response to bump my thread? OK, whatever floats your boat.

Again, if you have an issue to discuss please let me know what it is. But unless you can cite those unbased claims your going on about it seems we've hit an impasse.

Issler Dainze
The Miner's Friend
Changing up the sig to see if anyone is watching
CSM 7 Candidate
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#860 - 2012-03-20 19:56:13 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:

As for my statement that Hans doesn't represent the players I seek to represent. Here is a simple example. Last night Hans and I were both cruising through the trade hubs spread our message. The difference was I wasn't being chased by concord while I did it. Hans was bright red because his play style has resulted in seriously negative security status. Not what you would expect from someone that would be a "high sec" candidate.

Hans has some great ideas and a large base of players he can do a great job for. But the segment I choose to represent, the high sec miner, is not a group he has ever focused on and would likely never focus on. Because his play style isn't related to that segment of players. That isn't an attack, that is a simple fact.


There is a good reason I wasn't cruising empire space in any of my mining characters (I have several, with maxed skills). I prefer they remain anonymous and not be targeted, same as most people do with their other characters.

I simply can't believe how flippantly you keep using words like "facts" and "proof" without even thinking through your statements. The idea that because ONE of my characters engages in occasional piracy means I cannot represent mining interests, is unfounded. Really, the idea that in-game actions have ANY bearing on a candidates ability to listen to the community and represent their interests is unfounded. My work ethic and history speak for themselves. I have backed up my commitment to the players with ACTIONS that began long before campaign season. I have done far more than sit back and say "I'm ________'s friend, vote for me".

Issler, you need to just stop. Continuing to make blatantly ignorant statements about other candidates is by nature attacking them. Posting private email in an attempt to mislead the public about my relationship with other candidates is by nature attacking them.

You have disrespected my platform, my writings, my lengthy threads, and my work with the community multiple times now, and you continue to do so. This is behavior unbecoming of a CSM member, and you are only giving voters reason NOT to vote for you during these crucial last few hours.

I've tried to give you advice throughout the campaign that you've repeatedly ignored, and that continue to get you into trouble. Here is my last piece of advice - anyone involved with the forums heavily has already cast you vote. You are wasting your time here, and making yourself look more foolish. End this soapboxing, stop posting, and get back to vote-grinding in game. It is the only thing you can do to get more votes at this point, and that is a FACT.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary