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Is Gallente up to par?
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-25 20:56:48 UTC
While the recent patch was most certainly an improvement. It seems that Gallente still isn't used as much as I would hope. From what I've seen, certain ships like the Talos are dealing more damage than ships of a larger size which is quite an improvement.

However it seems that Minmatar and Amarr still dominate Armor gangs. Is this because people simply don't feel like training up Gallente as they have already trained the others? Or is it because Gallente ships aren't doing as well as the others?

Not a whine, just a question.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#2 - 2012-01-25 21:09:34 UTC
It takes more than a couple of months post-Crucible to have Gallente ships gain more acceptance. Consider the Talos for example. You need large t2 guns and people like myself never bothered training for it pre-Crucible. But it is something I would consider now and it's just a matter of finding the time to put it into the skillplan.

Btw- Gallente ships were always viable pre-Cruicible. It's just the whole 'Winmatar' meme that tends to be heard more than Gaylente and such.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2012-01-25 21:11:23 UTC
I have been really enjoying blaster ships since Crucible. The latest Null patch is ... uh, powerful. To say the least. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-25 21:16:24 UTC
So the number of Gallente ships will go up after a few months when people have finally trained their skills up?

Good to know that I have a several month lead from making the "mistake" of training gallente ships early in my days.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#5 - 2012-01-25 21:21:38 UTC
I keep telling myself that I'm going to start pvping again, but I just can't bring myself to join/make a corp and every time I end up in the mood to play eve I tend to log onto sisi to play with the moros, because hooooooly crap is that thing overpowered.

That said I'd say with the incoming null buff that blasters are going to be fine. TBH it's not the buff I would have liked to see, but it at least makes them viable.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-25 21:39:49 UTC
They're better, but the dynamic is still shield > armor, and a lot of Gallente ships are terrible shield tankers. So null buff aside (and you'll never match the effective range/dps of ACs/pulses with blasters), the dynamic is still shortest range gets the slowest speed, if you want a tank that isn't fail.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-01-25 21:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Julius Foederatus wrote:
They're better, but the dynamic is still shield > armor, and a lot of Gallente ships are terrible shield tankers. So null buff aside (and you'll never match the effective range/dps of ACs/pulses with blasters), the dynamic is still shortest range gets the slowest speed, if you want a tank that isn't fail.


I don't think it has anything to do with shields vs armor, if so it isn't the main issue. My alliance and corp mostly run armor gangs and we have been seeing great success, ESPECIALLY against shields.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-01-25 21:46:42 UTC
I'll bite, give me some details on these successes.

What kind of guns have you been using? Did you have logi? Did you have more logi than they did? Did you outnumber them? Did you have more ewar? What was the size of the fight in terms of pilots participating? What ships did you use?

We can dissect how relevant your anecdotes are with this info.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-25 21:58:55 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
I'll bite, give me some details on these successes.

What kind of guns have you been using?


Pulses, Autocannons, Blasters, the usual Armor weapons.


Quote:
Did you have logi? Did you have more logi than they did? Did you outnumber them?


Sometimes we do. We often don't We would either have around the same or more. Most of the time.

Quote:
Did you have more ewar?


Sometimes we do.

Quote:
What was the size of the fight in terms of pilots participating?


Small gangs

Quote:
What ships did you use?


Varies, we usually grab any armor ship we feel like using.

I apologize for not being more specific, but anything more specific than this could compromise security.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2012-01-25 22:00:57 UTC
At least link to a few fights from your kb. Its not like those would compromise security.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lili Lu
#11 - 2012-01-25 22:07:57 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
I keep telling myself that I'm going to start pvping again, but I just can't bring myself to join/make a corp and every time I end up in the mood to play eve I tend to log onto sisi to play with the moros, because hooooooly crap is that thing overpowered..

But then there's Titans, so meh
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#12 - 2012-01-25 22:14:21 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
My alliance and corp mostly run armor gangs and we have been seeing great success, ESPECIALLY against shields.


It's probably more about pilot skill than tank it is about tank flavor. I'd be willing to bet you could beat the same shield tanking group again and again, but fail miserably at fighting a roughly equivalent shield gang flown by 'better pilots'.

Katrina Oniseki
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#13 - 2012-01-25 22:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Pangolin
Shield/Nano with experienced pilots should always be able to retreat "run away" from a heavier and slower Armor gang. In general the in your face armor gang will win a straight up brawl within 20km. The standard nano-shield Drake/Cane fleet with 1 Lach can kite at 50km...

I've seen it happen over and over and over. At the end of the day when both sides are experienced enough. It ends in a draw. If the Shield gang is trapped, they will lose 1-2 guys before the rest all burn away. If the Armor gang is stupid and chases the shield gang...they will lose 1-3 guys before they realize its best to a) burn back to gate b) just warp away.

Gal ships are great brawlers. If you're going to have a stand up fight, get in something blastery, get in close, overheat, and pray.

For roaming fleets, when you don't know what you're running into I always prefer Shield/Nano, it offer the most maneuverability and engagement options. For a stand up fight (POS defense, Gate/Station game) go for heavier armor. if your mission is to sit there and deal out DPS while soaking DPS then you want armor. If your mission is to roam the space lanes...roam those sexy space lanes in something sleek and fast!

I find Gal armor boats shine in the BS department (Mega/Domi). BSs are supposed to be slow (nano-pest aside). Big old Mega shooting out blastery goodness is nothing to scoff at. Not to mention Vindicators are SICK!

Having said all that, I personally prefer Amarr for Armor and Cal/Minnie for shield...but I <3 laz0rz and shields...if they would make the sansha ships just a LITTLE faster, I would fly nothing but sansha!

BOW TO OUR SANSHA OVERLORDS! TRUE POWER! TRUE POWER! TRUE POWER! TRUE POWER! TRUE POWER!

(P.S. Blaster Rokh with Null....GO!)
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-01-26 00:09:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Liang Nuren wrote:
At least link to a few fights from your kb. Its not like those would compromise security.

-Liang






Good example of how a well coordinated armor fleet can take on a nano ship. He was moving at around 2km/s. Even though our interceptor was able to point him he was still moving much faster than our ships, but this pretty much debunks the myth that nano ships can always outrun armor ships.

Note how the Talos did most of the damage, which seems to show that they are pretty viable ships.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#15 - 2012-01-26 00:19:19 UTC
I'm not sure that linking a single fight where you outnumbered an enemy by 6:1 (including a falcon) is a good example of why armor ships are particularly viable. Not disputing it, just pointing out its a terrible example.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-26 00:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Liang Nuren wrote:
I'm not sure that linking a single fight where you outnumbered an enemy by 6:1 (including a falcon) is a good example of why armor ships are particularly viable. Not disputing it, just pointing out its a terrible example.

-Liang



Oh well, we usually run gangs so we either outnumber them or they outnumber us (them being anyone we find to fight).

We had a 2:1 advantage against two nano drakes.



I didn't witness the fight myself but I think they may have been able to outrun my corp buddies (at least one of the drakes) but I can't provide too much info on it.



4:1 fight. Probably not a very good example either given we had a mach and a numerical advantage, but my Navy Omen doing 25% of the damage is pretty impressive for a ship of it's size (and my amarr related skills are rather "meh" at the moment).

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#17 - 2012-01-26 00:55:16 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
They're better, but the dynamic is still shield > armor, and a lot of Gallente ships are terrible shield tankers. So null buff aside (and you'll never match the effective range/dps of ACs/pulses with blasters), the dynamic is still shortest range gets the slowest speed, if you want a tank that isn't fail.


shields vrs armour eh?

one word

HELLCATS!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#18 - 2012-01-26 01:00:04 UTC
Those first two aren't nano drakes... and calling them that really adds a lot of weight against your argument. The one that actually was a nano Drake got caught by a Mach (and what would likely be a shield gang) so its not very interesting. I think pretty much anyone is willing to admit that armor is viable when you start measuring how much outnumber your enemy by in multiples.

I was really hoping for a link like this: http://kb.heretic-army.biz/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3152 (last night, fwiw)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-01-26 01:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Km's stuff



Hem...then should this KM prove armor sucks and shield nano wins?

The only thing your stuff has proved atm is that 2 solo drakes taken by a larger armor gang get killed. It can succeed doesn't mean it's bad, useless or good, just means nothing.

Now top 20 numbers mean something.

And if I was you I wouldn't be that enthusiast
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#20 - 2012-01-26 01:03:32 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Now top 20 numbers mean something.


Yes, it reflects popularity and blobs... which doesn't necessarily mean anything to me.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
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