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BPO and BPC
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Lady Bloodsucker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-24 06:50:56 UTC
The Productivity Level in BPO how does that work

The Material Level can get so high that the Wastage Factor is 0.0. Right.

But how do i see Productivity Level dosent need any more Research or what ??

The Hunger
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-24 07:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
Best way to determine suitable levels is by using one of the available BPO calculators

Like this one

http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo

And in short, more you research productivity level, less it takes time to manufacture one unit using the BPO. As usual, there are hard diminishing returns on the research. PL 1 is always very nice (takes a good chunk off the build time) but beyond that each level has smaller and smaller effect.

As an example, Covetor BPO

.......................PE:0 PE:1 PE:2 PE:4 PE:8 PE:16 PE:32 PE:38 PE:75 PE:150
Build Time 1h40m 1h30m 1h26m40s 1h24m 1h22m13s 1h21m10s 1h20m36s 1h20m30s 1h20m15s 1h20m7s

(messy formatting but I guess you'll get the idea)

So PE1 takes 10 mins off. PE2 takes further 3min20sec and then it goes very quickly down from there. PE16 takes total of 18min 50sec off the build time.
Lady Bloodsucker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-24 09:05:14 UTC
Thanks

The Hunger
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2012-01-25 01:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
PE math is similar to ME, except there is no rounding of the final amount. There is no such thing as perfect PE.


Production Time = Base Production Time * (1 + Base Production Time Waste / (1 + PE Level))


Base Production Time = ROUND(No-Skill Production Time on a PE 0 BPO / (1 + Base Production Time Waste))


Base Production Time Waste is usually 25%, but there are exceptions.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2012-01-25 14:05:58 UTC
If you want a different BP Calculator, check my sig.

The PE is adjustable by a slider. Taking it above 15 is, generally, pointless.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tarok Nextrid
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-01-25 17:36:17 UTC
Lady Bloodsucker wrote:
The Material Level can get so high that the Wastage Factor is 0.0. Right.


You can't get a 0% waste, but you can get pretty close to it if you have enough research levels. Most people argue that ME 10 or 20 is enough for any blueprint.

I usually go with ME 40 or 50 blueprints, but I build things that use a ton of resources so it does add up, but there is still some waste (ME50 = 0.02% waste vs 10% from ME0), for example.

So lets say I have a blueprint for a widget which uses 100,000 tritanium.

ME0 = 10% waste = 10,000 tritanium wasted
ME50 = 0.2% waste = 200 tritanium wasted

It adds up when you do a lot of manufacturing.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#7 - 2012-01-25 18:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
the main thing to look at for ME is the materials needed. there is such thing as perfect ME.

perfect ME does not mean 0.00000% waste just that training more does not reduce the material needs any more.

For example if a BPO at 50 ME has 0.2% waste but the highest material quantity is 1000 than reducing it to 0.1% waste will save you 1 unit off the 1000 but if the highest material quantity is only 100 that extra 0.1% only saves 1/10th of a unit which is rounded up so you save nothing. no amount of research would reduce the waste enough to save you even 1 unit off that 100 as it will always be rounded up.

this is why T1 ship BPO's benifit from higher ME levels as they require millions of units of minerals. A reduction of 0.1% is still 1000 units saved of of 1,000,000 units. but is the extra months of research really worth the savings of 1000 trit.

on the other hand items like control towers are made from PI materials benifit very little from research as they require such low amounts of the components. however some of those components are worth many millions of isk per unit. so saving just one unit can make a big difference in cost.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2012-01-25 19:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
on the other hand items like control towers are made from PI materials benifit very little from research as they require such low amounts of the components. however some of those components are worth many millions of isk per unit. so saving just one unit can make a big difference in cost.

All materials on PI blueprints are marked as EXTRA, which means they have no waste, and ME research is pointless on those BPO.

Extra materials show up separately in a manufacturing quote window. Some items, like bombs, have some materials subject to waste and some that is extra (no waste). Extra materials are not returned when an item is reprocessed (in the case of bombs, this prevents them from being used for mineral compression).

PI BPO use extra materials since the introduction of PI was botched. CCP enabled reprocessing of structures before they removed NPC market orders for structures, despite many warnings from players. People were buying structures from NPC, reprocessing them for PI materials, then building different structures, and selling those back to NPC at a higher price. Huge profits were made. When CCP finally responded, they removed reprocssing by making the material extra, and changed all the PI materials existing at the time to unusable "broken" type that couldn't be used to build anything.

Small rigs are a better example of BPO that need little or no research, as they have low material counts (less than 6 units on 10% base waste BPO = no waste).