Intergalactic Summit

Irrelevant. She could make you wish for icecream, the fact is someone is attempting to bypass the free thought process and lead to controlled determination. In short programming the way you think without your free will having chance to even question it in your own mind.

That is monstrous, the right to autonomy even in the most simple, basic or minor details is something no one else has the right to infringe on.

Nonsense. Autonomy and the notion of free will is nothing more than religious dogma. You've been programmed since birth, by your family, by society, and all the various experiences you've had with the world around you. The flavor of ice cream you choose to devour is irrelevant to the fact that you were driven to by your impulse to eat ice cream. Simply because I've taken an active hand in adjusting someone's behavior, is no more malicious than an advertisement for regenerative skin cream intended to make one look younger while promising more attention from the opposite sex. The individual still has the choice to make, but the influence from memory may encourage otherwise, I have no way to be sure.

Well, I have a way; we've done our research.

The right to autonomy is something intrinscally, irremovably human.

Without autonomy, we are not human.

So allow me to save you a wall of text and summarise that your options are thus:

1) You can believe that your autonomy and free will are illusions, and then you can live as something less than human.
2) Or, you can face up to reality that you and you alone are responsible for your actions. The buck stops with you regarding what you do or fail to do.

The second choice is not comforting, it is hard and it you can be bitten by your own action or inaction.

The first choice is a safety blanket for those who cannot bear the truth.

Your choice.

((double post, sorry))

((Triple post... your time will come forums...))

Exept for the fact that free will can be proven. Religion is a matter of faith, i.e. trusting in something that cannot be proven.

Faith and free will are related, but they are not comparable.

We choose to have faith. Free will is something that you develop as a human characteristic and can be, like you have, surrendered if you cannot cope.

Try to work out that I didnt respond to it because I do not care much wether or not the Empires acknowlege it. I am arguing my own opinion, not someone else's.



Determinism loosely defined is that we never have any real choice in our lives. Free will is the opposite, so I advise you to re-read that.

What I really meant to say was that children should be encouraged to learn an important lesson and stay away from any Sansha influence by using Dr. Doyle as an alarming example. Instead of projects which are not beneficial for the public, it would be best if she used her skills in a way that would boost the economy. As I tried to say, this would be the best direction for her future endeavors.


I wish to thank Mademoiselle Frost for her scientific insights and clarification - the purpose of my comment was to condemn Sansha activities, not to support them. Scientific illiteracy is nowadays very common and I would like to take this opportunity to point out that there is a need for better education in our schools and capsuleer programs - without forgetting the ethical questions.

All the attempts here to twist my words are very disappointing. I have never said I agree with the Dr. Doyle - instead I disagree with her strongly.

Sansha's nation has caused suffering for billions of people across the cluster, there is no question about that. I hope this clarification now clears up the confusion concerning this issue.

Mr. Valoron need not be concerned about my affiliation with Nation.

While it is true my Co-CEO Lillith Blackheart was indeed an influential voice amongst Nation loyalists, myself and NeuroGEN's relationship with their movement has been coincidental at best. We certainly share many values that Nation represents, and I heartily welcome the systematic dismantling of the existing imperial regimes, but I can assure you we are an independent entity with our own agenda. Simply discounting me as a 'Sansha loyalist' has been the classic defense by most Coalition thugs and 'freedom' lovers who lack the capacity to provide a meaningful response, a tactic that I have come to expect.

Mr. Makari has illustrated a point worth recounting for discussion:

You have presented a false dichotomy of choice in your argument, and one that I believe is a common misconception amongst those who share a similar viewpoint. Recognizing that you are a product of your environment and genetic disposition does not make you any less human, or any less responsible for actions made as a result. It is a mature, realistic approach to conscious understanding of ones mind and methodology.

For instance, many who espouse the dogma of autonomy and free will are often comfortable with the idea of some control, such as the kind an adult has over their younger offspring, or the influence of law on a society to maintain order. A criminal or violent individual must be controlled and restrained for the benefit of society, for the protection of its people, just as a child must be restrained to protect them from dangers they might be ignorant to. If one accepts that some control in certain applications are acceptable but others are not, we see that free will is not always in the best interests of the individual, no matter how responsible they may feel for their actions. I imagine most parents would not feel comfortable leaving a child to the hands of fate because they are afraid to administer some restraint on the child's behalf.

And yet what if those in power, the individuals responsible to set the laws and boundaries of human society, simply lack the moral character to make responsible decisions to benefit those they protect? A society where tyrants and corrupt politicians are allowed to rule, to make the law, and be the definition of what a model citizen should be, is the most evident product of failure visible amongst the empires. And like a virus, this failed model multiplies, thrives, and suddenly becomes the standard for human civilization, that forever shifts the course of humanity. If you can look amongst your peers in the pilot community, who are deemed the elite of space-faring society, can you say without a doubt that these are the pinnacle of humanity? May whatever deity have mercy on you if you do.

And what of those who are deemed responsible enough to make their own decisions, yet repeatedly display behavior contrary to that point? If we can accept that not everyone who is an adult should be in possession of their own free will, be it for the protection of society or their own, then we're closer to accepting the ultimate responsibility that all men should bear, the preservation and evolutionary development of the human species. One must not only take responsibility for oneself but that of society, as they are both immutably interlinked. This is where cries for autonomy, without consideration for the society, fail to take into consideration the repercussions of simply acting without consequence. It is irresponsible, immature, and has led us down the path we're at today, where fiends rule the skies and monsters roam the cosmos.

I'm not apologetic, nor will I ever be, for the efforts to change this.


I'm anticipating a substantial return on investment in the long term, but perhaps not in the tangible composition you might be accustomed to.


~ND17