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High Sec PoS's?

Author
Kyrplexa Insanitus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-01-23 14:00:55 UTC
I've been trying to figure out... Why, for the love of all that makes no sense, does it require a corp standing of 5.0 with a faction for PoS's in high sec...? and I understand that it should be difficult, but everyone seems to say the same thing.... kick all your members out, and then online the tower... but what is the point of allowing us to do this vs. just making high sec towers fully accessible as long as 1 person in the corp has a standing requirement?

I would rather it be one sided than allow people who don't want to work together the capability to make use of this 'feature.'

Am I missing some small bit of info, or is this broken aspect jsut something overlooked over the past... what... 8-9 years?

Why in the hell are we not cut completely from accessing a tower if people drop our corp standing down below, say... 5.0? Why can people exploit this and why does ccp enjoy making EVERYONE exploit it that wants a high sec pos? If there are corporations that do this without exploitation, I commend you. But I do doubt there are many... if that. Which is why I'm confused...

I mean, I guess it just 'works out,' right ccp? no. It is an inconvenience to anyone who sets their mind forward... It is simply a 'let's go out of our way to be redundant,' idea.

On a side note, how do corps recruit people if they are trying to put towers up WHILE under such an eye-sore of a shore list...?
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-01-23 15:47:08 UTC
Discipline and support as far as corps go. I've been in a corp with 50+ pilots which successfully maintains an average standing above 5.0 across all pilots.

Why are towers not cut out when standings drop before 5.0 for the corp? No clue. The standings system is a bit archaic and it's easy to "play" the system - as you say it's what most people do. There was a suggestion at one point for standings to have an effect on the towers which were online in the way of taxes or fuel consumption - lower the actual corp standings the more you'd have to pay but this only really would benefit those pilots who know how to play the system, as opposed to really providing a solution. Leaving this as they are is a very imperfect solution but alternative systems are not something you are going to be able to hack in one afternoon.

When recruiting pilots if you want to keep average corp standings above a certain level for whatever reason, be upfront about it, explain why it needs to happen and provide support to make it happen. Getting faction standings to 8.0 or so is not really that hard and once you have a few pilots at that level you can afford to have pilots with lower standing joining up, and going through the same process. Give them a month or so to get to 5.0 standings (should be more than enough for someone who knows the game, a bit more complex for new players but it can also be done).

Kyrplexa Insanitus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-01-23 21:25:23 UTC
Thank you for your time. This is a current goal to do. I do hope CCP steps it up soon... I know it took 7 years for them to fix most other basic functions, so I'd assume I would need to wait another 3 or so for this to change :P
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#4 - 2012-01-23 21:54:05 UTC
They are trying to promote industry in null sec, CCP isn't going to make it easier to do industry specifically in highsec anytime soon.
Kyrplexa Insanitus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-01-23 21:57:08 UTC
i would rather they made it harder than easier sir. I might not have been clear about it. but I'd rather they made it harder to upkeep a pos in high sec than keep it so that corps can just pop a tower up on a whim via kicking members
B DeLeon
DeLeon Industries
#6 - 2012-01-23 22:26:53 UTC
This actually protects small corps in high sec from big low/null powers influence. If one person is enough in a corp to set up a POS in highsec then big corps/alliances would be able to take down all POSs in a zone and selling the place for high rent price. This way they don't want to kick all members just to do this. Not worth the effort.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#7 - 2012-01-23 22:58:19 UTC
I imagine it is mostly a case of a mechanic that they intended to work one way, people learned how to game it, and it just has not been high enough priority to revisit.

High sec player owned structures have generally been low priority, and it is unknown if they will even address hi sec at all when they finally implement the 'small' structures they have been talking about.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#8 - 2012-01-24 05:24:22 UTC
I'm hoping they open up 0.8 systems, if you have standings of at least 8.0.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#9 - 2012-01-24 05:27:58 UTC
Kyrplexa Insanitus wrote:
i would rather they made it harder than easier sir. I might not have been clear about it. but I'd rather they made it harder to upkeep a pos in high sec than keep it so that corps can just pop a tower up on a whim via kicking members


You haven't been around long enough. It used to be a lot more archaic and it would take at least a week for your standings to adjust up/down as people joined/left. So if you formed a new corp, then got standings up, you had to wait another 7 days or so for the standings change to take effect.

(Apparently, from what I recall, this took a very long time to calculate and caused other issues in the code.)

This was changed a few years ago, so that it only counts people who have been in the corp for at least 7 days. As a positive side, this means that you no longer have to boot people out for a full week if you need to anchor a new tower. Now you can boot them out before downtime, then re-invite them back in afterwards, and have a full week to anchor any new towers needed.
Mnengli Noiliffe
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-01-24 07:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe
actually it used to be much more complex than now.

the standing 'drifted' slowly towards the average between members, so you had to wait several weeks for the standing to update after low standing members quitting the corp, which pretty much made this tactic unexploitable.

then they changed it to be instant update during each downtime, in order to decrease downtime duration, which pretty much made the whole corp standing system pointless.

so i guess they do need to revisit this part of game after that update, somehow.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-01-24 07:20:06 UTC
Yeah, it is still a bit stupid system in that it is so easy to game around...

Perhaps they could keep the current system but add a way to "pay kickbacks to the empire to look the other way" and that way able to anchor towers without the standings (with the cost of anchoring permit going up the worse your standings are). So if you'd need 5.0 standings and you had only 1.5, you'd pay X isk per .1 of standings you lack in order to get a permit to anchor a single tower. Would make it more accessible for small time guys who anchor that one tower, yet make standings more useful for large operators (and "POS Anchoring service" guys would still have a business - they'd just have to undercut whatever each empire is asking, and yes, this NPC permit price could be fairly steep)

Would be a nice ISK sink too - this game needs more of 'em.
Samuel Briar
You Dont Know Us
#12 - 2012-01-24 08:21:34 UTC
B DeLeon wrote:
This actually protects small corps in high sec from big low/null powers influence. If one person is enough in a corp to set up a POS in highsec then big corps/alliances would be able to take down all POSs in a zone and selling the place for high rent price. This way they don't want to kick all members just to do this. Not worth the effort.



And a big high-sec alliance can't do this why?
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#13 - 2012-01-24 13:55:55 UTC
Samuel Briar wrote:
B DeLeon wrote:
This actually protects small corps in high sec from big low/null powers influence. If one person is enough in a corp to set up a POS in highsec then big corps/alliances would be able to take down all POSs in a zone and selling the place for high rent price. This way they don't want to kick all members just to do this. Not worth the effort.



And a big high-sec alliance can't do this why?


Can you name a single "big" highsec alliance?
Samuel Briar
You Dont Know Us
#14 - 2012-01-25 20:25:25 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
Samuel Briar wrote:
B DeLeon wrote:
This actually protects small corps in high sec from big low/null powers influence. If one person is enough in a corp to set up a POS in highsec then big corps/alliances would be able to take down all POSs in a zone and selling the place for high rent price. This way they don't want to kick all members just to do this. Not worth the effort.



And a big high-sec alliance can't do this why?


Can you name a single "big" highsec alliance?



EVE Uni


On the other end of the scale:
Privateers
MOAR TEARS
Orphans



BTL and TDF have their various circlejerks as well, if I recall correctly.
Melchiades Seti
Interstellar Red Shirts
#15 - 2012-01-25 21:05:17 UTC
Your alt rarely has much in the way of standings. If you can't have your pos if you have an alt, there isn't much purpose in having an alt. Minus one subscription per pos doing this (a lot). What could be the commercial incentive to change this?

The high sec entrepeur has taken enough hits lately. PI taxes, ice raids. All designed to encourage moving into a lawless space that is broken. (Read totally monopolized.)

Let everyone have their fun.
Alyssa SaintCroix
Leihkasse Stammheim
#16 - 2012-01-25 21:18:58 UTC
The standings requirement are a minor hurdle. If you're serious about tossing up a POS in high-sec, you're going to either pay someone to alter your standings or do the grind yourself -- which isn't THAT horrible. On the flip side, putting up a POS in null/low sec isn't extremely difficult as they require no "standings" but do require some actual effort to defend as there is always the risk that someone will come along and blow your **** up.

As I understand it, there isn't a whole lot of null sec industry simply because of the risk versus reward of cooking up a long duration job while running the risk someone comes into your territory and curb stomps you. You have industrialists that do capital construction as you can't do that in high sec, but what gain is there for an industrialist out in null sec/low sec who can do his/her industry in the relative peace of high sec and and just jump freighter? Why even bother when you can toss up a POS in high sec, grab rocks from Jita, cook your gear, dump it into a JF, make a jump to lowsec and then cyno out to null? Where is the incentive when there is so much risk involved?

I think there is a lot they can improve on when it comes to POS mechanics but the requirement of standings is so far down the list it' a minor inconvenience.
Kyrplexa Insanitus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-01-28 17:25:07 UTC
Thank you for taking the time to make valid points for and against my thoughts. I'm quite content thanks to the Eve community once again.