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Question: How is Hulkageddon not considered "griefing?'
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2012-01-23 12:09:40 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
You're grabbing at straws.
No. I'm applying the definition of greifing as it is used in EVE.

Ganking the same miner over and over again in the same system is not griefing unless a whole bunch of other circumstances also apply. If he's just to damn daft to stay in a system where his business rivals want him gone, then that's his problem, not theirs (well... it's their problem that he refuses to move in spite of their persistent campaign, but that's why they keep trying).

If he can move to the next system and mine in peace; if he can bribe them off; if he can do something other than mining and not be targeted; if the only thing that gets him serial-ganked is his persistence in staying in one spot in one system and not getting the hint, then it simply doesn't qualify as griefing. It's just him being stupid.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-01-23 12:36:41 UTC
0/10

Hulkageddon isn't grieving as suicide ganking ships is part of EVE Online.

Only constant harassment of 1 person without gaining anything from it might get the GM involved.

To clearify - Hulkageddon:

1 person = no, it's all miners / industrials
no gain = no, they gain points / prices from it

TL:DR - OP is stupid and needs to learn to read the EULA

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#63 - 2012-01-23 13:53:26 UTC
Definatly greifing, but clearly its being allowed by CCP. Does anyone at all get called up on that greiging rule? It's pretty clear to me that sucicide ganking in high-sec is pretty much no risk, maximum reward. The whole hulkageddon event is one big greif fest directed at miners and carebears.

Lets look at some of the prizes shall we......

“T.E.A.R.S.” Best miner tears extracted, as judged by Velocity Prime of Suddenly Ninjas.

“I like my pods scrambled” Most pod kills during the event. must be associated with a miner kill.

“Pulling a NYNC” Self destruct your vessel AFTER killing an exhumer but BEFORE CONCORD kills you, must be Frapsed.

“Keep em coming!” Most kills in the same system

And my personal favourate.....

“Master Griefer” Most repeat kills on a single miner during the event.

Such blanent greifing its quite unbelieveable really. All miners should go on strike and refuse to mine. I wonder how long the sucicide gankers can survive without the eve economy working.....

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Lexmana
#64 - 2012-01-23 14:03:57 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Definatly greifing, but clearly its being allowed by CCP. Does anyone at all get called up on that greiging rule? It's pretty clear to me that sucicide ganking in high-sec is pretty much no risk, maximum reward. The whole hulkageddon event is one big greif fest directed at miners and carebears.

Lets look at some of the prizes shall we......

“T.E.A.R.S.” Best miner tears extracted, as judged by Velocity Prime of Suddenly Ninjas.

“I like my pods scrambled” Most pod kills during the event. must be associated with a miner kill.

“Pulling a NYNC” Self destruct your vessel AFTER killing an exhumer but BEFORE CONCORD kills you, must be Frapsed.

“Keep em coming!” Most kills in the same system

And my personal favourate.....

“Master Griefer” Most repeat kills on a single miner during the event.

Such blanent greifing its quite unbelieveable really. All miners should go on strike and refuse to mine. I wonder how long the sucicide gankers can survive without the eve economy working.....

You are confused. It is called war. And in this conflict driven game that is not considered griefing. To the contrary, it forms the backbone of the whole economy. And you actually did present a solution in your post, that is, if you don't want to fight back. Now go play the game and stop whining.
Alara IonStorm
#65 - 2012-01-23 14:17:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Lexmana wrote:

You are confused. It is called war. And in this conflict driven game that is not considered griefing. To the contrary, it forms the backbone of the whole economy. And you actually did present a solution in your post, that is, if you don't want to fight back. Now go play the game and stop whining.

Actually well you are on War.
Grumpy Owly wrote:

FYI: Griefer Geddon 2.0

This is a very well thought out and organized resistance that seemed to be effective in their actions last Hulkageddon. I would say its biggest weakness is it's small size compared to the scope of Hulkageddon.

I think I will join their team this year they have a lot of interesting tactics. People put a lot of work into putting it together.

To all you that want to get in on the killing but don't want to loose sec status, dislike the principle of Hulkageddon or support Hulkageddon but don't participate take a look at what this is about and see if we can provide healthy opposition and turn this into a Galaxy Wide War instead of a one sided Slaughter. Miners should check it out to for the survival tips.

Survival Information.
Combat Tips
Contest Rules

They have a clause that says you can not join if you have ever Ganked a Mining Barge. That doesn't meen you can not use their tactics to get involved but you will not get prizes.

Hopefully this will be fun. I already have a few ideas.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#66 - 2012-01-23 14:19:00 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Definatly greifing, but clearly its being allowed by CCP. Does anyone at all get called up on that greiging rule? It's pretty clear to me that sucicide ganking in high-sec is pretty much no risk, maximum reward. The whole hulkageddon event is one big greif fest directed at miners and carebears.

Lets look at some of the prizes shall we......

“T.E.A.R.S.” Best miner tears extracted, as judged by Velocity Prime of Suddenly Ninjas.

“I like my pods scrambled” Most pod kills during the event. must be associated with a miner kill.

“Pulling a NYNC” Self destruct your vessel AFTER killing an exhumer but BEFORE CONCORD kills you, must be Frapsed.

“Keep em coming!” Most kills in the same system

And my personal favourate.....

“Master Griefer” Most repeat kills on a single miner during the event.

Such blanent greifing its quite unbelieveable really. All miners should go on strike and refuse to mine. I wonder how long the sucicide gankers can survive without the eve economy working.....

You are confused. It is called war. And in this conflict driven game that is not considered griefing. To the contrary, it forms the backbone of the whole economy. And you actually did present a solution in your post, that is, if you don't want to fight back. Now go play the game and stop whining.


War definately has seemed to be declared on high-sec people. Not sure why personally, but i think the griefing is a big reason why people decide to stay in high, rather than move to low - null like the game is "supposed" to encourage. You get blown up enough in high, why would you want to increase that even more by moving to the less safe places. Thats destructive to eve's development, as ideally people should be in high while they learn, and then naturally move to low - null.

Carebears want to be left alone on the most part, so constantly blowing them up to collect their tears for the amusement of the minority seems to be self-defeating imo. That isn't going to solve the issue.

I wasn't suggesting a solution, this problem has existed for a long time, and its not one that effects me personally. People that shoot at me get shot back at. Smile I'm not a miner, and am completely unaffected by hulkageddon. And i can't see why you'd interpret my post as whining when i'm just stating my opinion. Lol

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Teowulff Odinson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-01-23 14:27:09 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
“Master Griefer” Most repeat kills on a single miner during the event.

Well that somewhat seems to be against the EULA.

Xen Solarus wrote:
All miners should go on strike and refuse to mine. I wonder how long the sucicide gankers can survive without the eve economy working.....

I doubt it. You'll probably make the nulsec alliances and scrapmetal refiners a little richer.

Xen Solarus wrote:
Carebears want to be left alone on the most part, so constantly blowing them up to collect their tears for the amusement of the minority seems to be self-defeating imo. That isn't going to solve the issue.

Then what's the issue, exactly?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#68 - 2012-01-23 14:44:58 UTC
Teowulff Odinson wrote:

Then what's the issue, exactly?


Getting people to move out of high-sec of course! Big smile

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#69 - 2012-01-23 14:51:49 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Exactly how does CCP define "griefing" and why isnt Hulkageddon not considered it?

Seriously.


While I personal consider hulk killing in high sec the lowest form of pvp, done more for epeen than anything. Hulkageddon is not griefing. Griefing is attacking someone again and again and again for no other reason than you want to. Hulkageddon is attacking hulks and haulers to win prices. This on top of the fact the people that run hulkageddon normal spend upto a week shouting about it starting makes it not griefing. If you're a miner and dont check the forums for the start and end dates, well thats your fault.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#70 - 2012-01-23 14:54:08 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Teowulff Odinson wrote:

Then what's the issue, exactly?


Getting people to move out of high-sec of course! Big smile


Will never happen, Null has too many assholes who use the line "Join fleet or Log off". My reply is of course "how about you go **** yourself." Besides alot of indy toons are alts, trained only for indy. Why would an alt move to null and put up with all that crap.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#71 - 2012-01-23 15:02:29 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
Definatly greifing, but clearly its being allowed by CCP. Does anyone at all get called up on that greiging rule? It's pretty clear to me that sucicide ganking in high-sec is pretty much no risk, maximum reward. The whole hulkageddon event is one big greif fest directed at miners and carebears.

Lets look at some of the prizes shall we......

“T.E.A.R.S.” Best miner tears extracted, as judged by Velocity Prime of Suddenly Ninjas.

“I like my pods scrambled” Most pod kills during the event. must be associated with a miner kill.

“Pulling a NYNC” Self destruct your vessel AFTER killing an exhumer but BEFORE CONCORD kills you, must be Frapsed.

“Keep em coming!” Most kills in the same system

And my personal favourate.....

“Master Griefer” Most repeat kills on a single miner during the event.

Such blanent greifing its quite unbelieveable really. All miners should go on strike and refuse to mine. I wonder how long the sucicide gankers can survive without the eve economy working.....

You are confused. It is called war. And in this conflict driven game that is not considered griefing. To the contrary, it forms the backbone of the whole economy. And you actually did present a solution in your post, that is, if you don't want to fight back. Now go play the game and stop whining.


War definately has seemed to be declared on high-sec people. Not sure why personally, but i think the griefing is a big reason why people decide to stay in high, rather than move to low - null like the game is "supposed" to encourage. You get blown up enough in high, why would you want to increase that even more by moving to the less safe places. Thats destructive to eve's development, as ideally people should be in high while they learn, and then naturally move to low - null.

Carebears want to be left alone on the most part, so constantly blowing them up to collect their tears for the amusement of the minority seems to be self-defeating imo. That isn't going to solve the issue.

I wasn't suggesting a solution, this problem has existed for a long time, and its not one that effects me personally. People that shoot at me get shot back at. Smile I'm not a miner, and am completely unaffected by hulkageddon. And i can't see why you'd interpret my post as whining when i'm just stating my opinion. Lol


A large part of the problem is the fact alot of null players don't understand that Eve isn't a pvp only game. For some reason their minds can't understand that there are players in eve that don't want to pvp at all. That there are players in this game that only want to build things, run missions, or mine. That boggles them to much, it pisses them off. They seem to think everyone should be moving to null sec to give them more targets.

Thou to be honest if CCP ever did want to end hulkageddon they could in 1 easy step. Add 1 extra mind to hulks and allow pg for 2x LSE, would make it to pricey for ganking. It wont happen of course as like above, ship blowing up drives the markets.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#72 - 2012-01-23 15:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Serge Bastana
Xen Solarus wrote:


Carebears want to be left alone on the most part




Unfortunately then, this isn't the game for that. If they expect to never have to interact with anyone else then they need a single player game. EVE is built on conflict, the struggle for resources and never being 100% safe. If people can't accept that these things are part of the game then come onto the forums and cry that someone blew up their expensive ship and disrupted their enjoyment (read isk/hour), what do they expect. I accepted those facets of the game when I joined, in fact those are the things that interested me most.

Call them griefers and decry their actions as much as you like but to some extent their acting more in the spirit of the game than someone who 'just wants to be left alone'. If someone wants to play that way then fine, but it's also fine for other players to create events and situations that cause conflict, since that is what drives the economy.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#73 - 2012-01-23 15:26:55 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
A large part of the problem is the fact alot of null players don't understand that Eve isn't a pvp only game.
...aside from everything in it being PvP in one form or another, and everything feeding the PvP-driven war economy centred around a PvP market.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#74 - 2012-01-23 16:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
This is a PvP game (other than ship spinning... unless you compete for highest spins), they are PvPing... thats why it isn't griefing.


Now... if after they pop you the same individual does it over and over, even after you have moved, then you would have a case.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#75 - 2012-01-23 16:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
People use the term griefing in situations where it obviously dosen't apply all the time. Mostly because they are WoW nerds who think that literally anything anyone does that they don't like is an active attempt to cause them to quit the game and kill themselves because obviously they are the centre of the universe and everything is about them.
Bill Loney
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-01-23 16:20:21 UTC
Ninavask wrote:
simple answer: Loss of ingame assets =/= griefing. Humiliating/constant insulting/generally ruining someone's life over internet == griefing.

Plus they are getting paid for it while boosting botters/RMT.
It will only be scum, botters and RMT'ers left in the game soon, while all the half decent players are getting pushed out and all supported by the owners, nice 1.
There is only way for eve now with all this going on, making isk was hard enough as it is.
Lexmana
#77 - 2012-01-23 16:31:15 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
A large part of the problem is the fact alot of null players don't understand that Eve isn't a pvp only game.

A large problem is that alot of highsec bears refuse to accept that this is a PvP only game. If you think otherwise, explain why it is even possible to target anyone in highsec ... do you really believe that in eight years CCP havent figured out how to code so it would be impossible to kill someone in highsec and had to settle with something simpler like CONCORD?

Quote:
For some reason their minds can't understand that there are players in eve that don't want to pvp at all.

So why do they play EVE then?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#78 - 2012-01-23 16:33:16 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
Exactly how does CCP define "griefing" and why isnt Hulkageddon not considered it?

Seriously.


did you change your face?

it didn't help your posting abilities
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#79 - 2012-01-23 17:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
Lexmana wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
A large part of the problem is the fact alot of null players don't understand that Eve isn't a pvp only game.

A large problem is that alot of highsec bears refuse to accept that this is a PvP only game. If you think otherwise, explain why it is even possible to target anyone in highsec ...


Well, that isn't true. I know players that play eve that have NEVER done pvp, and we're talking about players that have played for over 5 years. Plenty of industralists out there playing with spreadsheets, making isk and having the time of their life. Others mindlessly haul stuff from one place to another for profit, while others mindlessly shoot at npc's in missions. Thats the true beauty of eve, allowing people to cut out their own little corner to call their own.

Eve certainly allows for lots of pvp, but by no means is it only pvp. Its quite ridiculous for you to suggest that. It's only the hardcore pvp minority that try to force it on everyone else.

And yes, before you say im whining again, i personally do love a nice bit of pvp. Lol

The difference is, i respect the people that have no interest in it whatsoever.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Lexmana
#80 - 2012-01-23 17:08:51 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
A large part of the problem is the fact alot of null players don't understand that Eve isn't a pvp only game.

A large problem is that alot of highsec bears refuse to accept that this is a PvP only game. If you think otherwise, explain why it is even possible to target anyone in highsec ...


Well, that isn't true. I know players that play eve that have NEVER done pvp, and we're talking about players that have played for over 5 years. Plenty of industralists out there playing with spreadsheets, making isk and having the time of their life. Others mindlessly haul stuff from one place to another for profit, while others mindless shoot at npc's in missions.

Are you trying to say that producing ships, selling loot and playing the market is not PvP?