Ships & Modules

ore capital shield slaves.

It looks like me a compremise is alreaddy made, whit the new invuls there will be the same ore more shield HP while less isk payed. A 2x heated Estemel invul ship should have around the same HP as a 2x a-type membrance + slaves. And whit the risk of loosing them not many none supers will use them for pvp.

Conclusion: don't worry ore get hig hopes up for shield slaves.

The problem you run into is "balancing" without just changing the balance around.

Things to keep in mind:

Invulns, even the ones currently in the game, especially the new deadspace ones coming out, offer better resists than bonused deadspace EANMs. Caldari Navy Invulns (400mil, 37.5%) offer a higher resist bonus than Corpum A-Type EANMs with all comps to 5 (1.25bil, 35.39%). These new A-type invulns coming offer SIGNIFICANTLY more (46.88%, unknown what pricing will settle out to).

Shield titans have the advantage of being able to fit damage mods in the low without sacrificing as much tank as an armor titan would. (Hardeners > Caldari Navy PDS)

The BIGGEST drawback to shield capitals is already being fixed in the next patch, which is a HUGE bonus. (I'm referring to the way gang bonii apply to shields)

Some of the Hel / Ragnarok issues were somewhat balanced by them receiving a lesser nerf.

Shield supers can fit other implant sets, like nomads and snakes, which offer their utility advantages like warping / moving significantly faster than armor titans.

Shield supers have passive regen. I know this doesn't seem like a lot, but over the course of a protracted engagement, if you dont basically get alpha'ed by doomsday, this can account for a fairly significant amount of tank.

Compare the following, fit for full tank with slaves for armor, KYA/KVA3000s for shield, no gang bonii:

Erebus: 35.7mil EHP
Avatar: 43.2mil EHP
Leviathan: 46.6mil EHP
Ragnarok: 43.3mil EHP

The most SIGNIFICANT differences you see here is not an issue with the tank itself, its the fact that the armor titans have no tank mods to fit in the mids, so they get utility slots. So lets assume 2x damage mods on the shield titans to make up for the TCs and etcs they're missing.

Erebus: 35.6mil
Avatar: 43.2mil
Leviathan: 41.8mil
Ragnarok: 38.9 mil

How about 4x damage mods:

Leviathan: 37.5mil
Ragnarok: 34.9mil

Personally I think the biggest issue right now amongst the supercapitals is the fact that citadel missiles are absolutely terrible at hitting anything but POSes, basically. I also think that Leviathans should get that utility high for a smartbomb or bridge on their combat fit.

On a side note, a rant about perception of titans and supercarriers.

Personally, I think 100-110bil isk ship (per forum values, fitted the way that people complain about) ought to be able to hit battleships to some degree, so I don't think titan tracking is a major issue now that remote TCs have been nerfed.

It seems to me that everyone wants titans and supercarriers to be completely defenseless against anything but other capitals, which seems kinda crazy that the most expensive ship type (yall say cost shouldnt effect balance, but it does. Cost is why they are a few hundred titans in the game, not 20,000) in the game would be unable to potentially escape a terrible fiery death to a kitchen sink fleet or be completely unable to harm 95% of the ships in EVE. I mean, at least they don't AOE doomsday anymore.

The fact is, you make an "endgame" ship type, you're gonna have to make it powerful to some degree so that people desire to obtain one, as well as have reason to use them in actual combat so that the potential for getting a super killmail exists as well. Personally, I would've left the game a long time ago if it had been only battleship fleets wailing back and forth to no avail the past few years of my career. The inherent flaw here is that EVE has no system to "uptier" like most MMOs rely on to recycle content and make too-powerful, hard to obtain items obsolete by raising the level cap or whatever. EVE does have the ability to destroy things, but the real debate is: How hard should it be to destroy the culmination of someone's EVE career?

Remember, we are discussing the slave shield implants not cap ship balance in general in this thread. There already exist a thread on cap ship balance.

Please stay on topic.


kthanks

I want my name back.

No.

I'm ok IF:

Armor ships get some set with auto self regeneration of armor.

Noes?

Well if you can't figure out shield is far too good then no one can help you. (looks at the shield fit domi 1300dps like a vindicator)

OK then make missile dmg mods mid slot and take away the natural regeneration of shields.

It's a fair trade right?

If the starting point for this balancing are supercaps, then I think shield slaves are a bad idea. Armor users get usually the fatter buffer mods, read plates. Since there are no 3200 mm armor plates and less impressive XL shield extenders, it is all about base resists and hardeners.

High quality deadspace shield hardeners and a fix to the session change problem of shield tanks will do the trick for me. I would prefer reduced CPU req. for shield transfer modules across the board. If any further change is seen as necessary.

Like painters and webs for example ? But you are right. There should be no need for such tools that make the Torpraven look even worse compared to any frog battleship.

Let guided missile precision effect the now so called "unguided" missiles, too !

The easiest option is for CCP to simply change slaves to add 1% armour AND 1% shield.

Same deal with crystals; adjust to add armour rep bonus amount along with shield booster effectiveness.

Also, EVE is NOT a 'prizes for everyone' game, shield and armour slaves are in the game to give unfair advantages to rish people because thats the way EVE is.

So you are saying make crystals and slaves mimic each other's bonus to active and passive tank?