Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Brief description: Rather simple idea, which can seriously boost attractiveness and efficiency of

• Espionage
• Exploration
• Planetary and production
• Interaction with DUST514 people
• Dreadnoughts (without direct boost of their stats/properties)

Also it can solve several big problems in Eve

• Super cap blobs being applied in any noticeable alliance-level PVP
• Usage of super caps against any tiny invaded fleet
• Risk of appearing Very Big Alliance (with largest super cap blob) which will conquest whole Eve universe

If you are interested, please read about it in details below.


Suggestion is to introduce a fuel for super-caps:

1. Add "super-cap fuel block" to the game, which will require for production rare resource, randomly spawning in signatures over whole EVE universe, and / or have base cost ~500 millions ISK.
2. Every super-cap uses 1 fuel block per hour
3. If 1 hour passed after last fuel block consumption, and there are no fuel blocks in cargo, then super-cap becomes inactive until it will get another fuel block in cargo.
4. Inactive super-cap:


• Cannot activate any modules
• Cannot launch fighters/fighter-bombers
• Doesn't give fleet bonuses
• Cannot warp? (Not sure)
• Cannot jump to cynosural field beacon? (Not sure)

Many people say "Rich alliances will still have as many supercaps in fights, as they wish". But every who said that, couldn't argue simple calculation:
Look at Pandemic Legion. Rich alliance, rumors say about great income of ~150 billions of ISK per week (tech). This alliance will be able to afford only 6 hours activity of fleet with 50 supercaps per week, spending ALL income to it - and after that 6 hours PL can be wiped out by several small alliances with 1-3 supercaps in each.
PL don't want to die, having their supers ran out of fuel, so they will prefer to have every-day active several fleets with 1-3 supers per fleet.
Also people say "large alliances will buy all fuel blocks". I bet, there will be no supercap fuel trading at all. Everybody understands, that supercap fuel is a key to stay live. Everybody will preserve and accumulate it. Not sell.

PROS:

1. There will be no super-cap blobs in every-day/week alliance-level fights, because it will be too expensive.
2. Super-caps will not be used as every-minute hot-drops against small gangs like a pair of battleships.
3. Super-caps can remain SUPERs (not nerfed to a piece of ****) without killing balance/PVP, and there still will be 1-2-3 super-caps in every-day/week alliance fights. Probably even in important corp-level fights.
4. We will still have chance to see huge, impressive fleets of super-caps - but rare, only in epic-fights, when future of alliances depends on it.
5. Dreadnoughts will be back, because nobody will use super-caps now for killing structures.
6. Small alliances will be able to fight against large alliances, using dreadnoughts, since even large alliance will not gather more than 5-10 supercaps in single fleet. While small alliance can easily accumulate 30-40 dreadnoughts for such battle.
7. It should be considerably easy in implementation for CCP developers.

CCP can make resources for supercap fuel rare, spawning randomly across whole EVE universe with a low rate, this will give another possible PROS:

1. Even large alliance will not be able to obtain as many supercap fuel as it wishes. CEO will have to decide, either it will have several fleets with 1-2 super-cap in each of them daily, or it will throw 40 supers to the battle for 6 hours, and then live for some time without fuel (and supercaps) at all.
2. Completely new interest in espionage - supercap fuel blocks become strategic resource. If large alliance depletes supercap fuel blocks, it become vulnerable to attacks, until it will accumulate some supercaps fuel blocks. So you can ask spy to investigate, how much supercap fuel blocks does your enemy has right now. You can even ask your spy to steal some supercap fuel blocks.
3. Even a small alliance will be able to hit seriously large one, if it will accumulate supercap fuel blocks during some time, and catch a moment when large one will be out of fuel blocks.
4. Exploration gets serious boost - you can occasionally find a spawned piece of resource for supercap fuel blocks. Large alliances will pay you a big bonus for it. Or you can keep it for the future of your corp/alliance.
5. If supercap fuel blocks components will include planetary materials, this will make DUST514 really par of Eve, since you will need have your allies from DUST514 to control certain planet, to keep steady income of supercap fuel blocks components.
6. You can don't afraid of changing Tranquility to Chinese server. Supercap fuel blocks can be accumulated by small alliance, and large alliance always has a risk of temporary depletion of it`s current fuel blocks reserve. This means, that large alliance will sooner or later will be caught into trap. Small alliances can catch a moment when large one has no supercap fuel blocks, and attack it with a fleet of supers, using their accumulated supercap fuel blocks.

So, leave super-caps strong, cool SUPERs. Just make so 1 hour of 1 super-cap activity will require a fuel block, which costs X00 millions and produced from rare, random-spawning resources - this will solve all super-cap blobs and mega-alliance-related troubles, and simultaneously will bring to Eve a lot of new interesting activity.


Thanks for your attention, sorry for my english.

ISK as a balance rod will never work with our current ability to essentially buy as much ISK as we need.

Supers are actually pretty well balanced, the problem is that they just refuse to die in sufficient numbers to keep up with production lines, that is where the optimal solution lies.

Have some way or introduce some circumstances where their immunity is lifted and it will reach an equilibrium quite fast. My own suggestion has been to tie immunity to sov, so that it is only applicable on ones 'home-turf' (ie. not the blue-sea and not on offensive EHP ninja-grinds) but it could be a module or anchored structure as well.

They should remain powerful, but not immortal as is presently the case.

There is a very big difference between two situations:
- you need to spend large amount of ISK once, and then be happy during a long time for nothing (current situation with supercaps building/usage).
- you need to spend large amount of ISK on a per-hour base, if you want 2 hours of super-cap blob, you will ahve to farm twice more than for 1 hour of super-cap blob.

Usually it is easy for human to strain once, knowing that after that there will be a long time of relaxation.
But if he knows that any additional hour of relaxation will always require additional hour of straining...

So ISK is a extremely effective balance rod, if it is used on a per-hour base.



To make them die in sufficient numbers, you have to nerf them to something like a weak cap.


This is very bad, because then everybody will keep his supers in his own sov. Nobody will throw a fleet of supercaps to death in another sov. Wars for sov will just stop, and current sovs will be frozen forever.

Sub caps blobbing is also not good, but:
1) There are _several_ counter-measures - caps, supercaps (at least while they remain SUPERcaps), stealth-bombers
2) Sub cap blob is much harder to gather and control (assuming, say, that "blob" for subcaps is >=200, while we are speaking about supercaps, 50 is already something like a blob)
3) Sub cap blob is much less universal/powerful, as compared to the super caps blob

The only bad thing about super-cap, is that blob of them is unviersal, general solution for anything in Eve. You can make one super-cap cost 100 billions, but while people understand, that once they will create blob of such supercaps, they will have universal tool for any tasks, from killing small gangs to complete elimintaion of all structures in the given region - they will continue building blobs of super-caps at any costs.

And the only thing to
1) Keep supers SUPERs
2) Make them/blob of them _not_ universal tool
is to make their usage (not construction, but daily, hourly usage) VERY expensive. Because they are (and should be) VERY effective.

Sorry, i didn't understand what do you mean exactly under "tech"? Technetium moons? Technology?

1) SCs are still perfect against sub caps because fighters still have 125m signature resolution. Moreover, SCs are fine against any targets - with fighters, fighter-bombers and DD.
2) All important battles are made by supercap blobs. Looks like don't know how atlas was wiped out, and never fought against RED. Huge supercaps fleet is the only strategy is used in really big fights since super-caps were introduced by CCP.
3) Sub caps blob has a counter-measures - stealth-bombers, cap fleet, several super caps. While Supercaps blob has no any counter-measures except larger supercap blob. And that's completely wrong. But in the same time, nerfing supercaps is wrong - they will become just another caps in the end. So correct solution is to make people using supercaps in much less amounts. With the help of high time-based cost.

I'm pretty sure, i know more than you about thing you mean saying "tech". I'm just not as good as you in slang :)

By the way, i consider it completely wrong, that supers are not allowed to affect subs. They should be allowed, otherwise they will not be supers.
Do you realy think, that supercarrier USS John C. Stennis cannot affect some small ship like a destroyer or trawler? Probably it will be surprise for you, but it really can. It's just too expensive - to throw it against every destroyer - there are another destroyers and cruisers for that.
Why it should be different in Eve, while it tries to be as "real" as it is possible?

If you mean technetium moons, you should understand, that my suggestion will have most heavy hit on their owners.

As i know (probably a bit old info), pandemic legion has weekly income due to technetium moons ~150 billions.
So at this moment PL can form fleet of 50 SCs in a month, and then use it _indefinitely_ (or until somebody will kill them).

If my suggestion will be implemented, complete weekly income of PL tecnetium moons (150B) will grant them only 6 hours of 50 SCs operating.

Compare these situations:
1) Wait 1 month, and then fly 50 SCs as long as you wish, wiping out anything you want day and night.
2) Wait 1 month, and then fly 50 SCs during only twenty-four hours. Or fly 10 SCs during 5 days. Or have 5 sub-cap fleets with 2 SCs per fleet, operating during 1 day.

Do you see that the second variant makes supercaps really strategic resource? And actually they don't need any nerf - you can even turn back projected ecm to SCs, still have them completely ecm-immune etc. Inspite all of this, nobody will throw blob of supercaps to fight. At least at daily basis.

Instead, supercaps will be used accurately, advisedly - isn't it good, and more similar to real life, where we don't see fleets of 10 supercarriers? Instead, there are only 1-2 supercarriers per fleet/formation.

So technetium moons are not a problem. Even largest and richest alliances still will not be using supercap blobs every day against smaller enemies. Instead, fleets with 1-2 SCs will be common - and then small alliances will have a chance to bite large one.

There is a probability that PL will accumulate all their resources during 2-3 months, and then push out fleet of 50 supers to the battlefield - but in this case they realy deserved this by several months waiting. And this will be very rare event, really epic fight for really important, strategic purposes.

And the guys with no tech? What happens to their supers? the random lowsec guys, or the smaller alliances with one or two supers? The militias? People who happen to not live in the north? Or even just people who don't have as much money as goons/pl/raiden/solar/xix/nc. (I think that list covers just about everyone who'd be capable of using supers with your ******** rules. Which one is your main a member of?)

An ISK limit like this makes the rich invulnerable and screws over everyone else. This is a BAD. THING.

This post is a fine demonstration of how long usage of supers can become a habit, and make you thinking that nothing can confront supers except more supers.

Try to understand two simple things:

1) Even largest alliances will not be able to have more than 3-4 supers per regular battles with smal alliances, not epic fights. I proved this in my previous post, and you was not able to argue that.
2) Even small alliances will be able to build 20-30 dreadnoughts (as you understand, they are not supers, so don't requre expensive fuel) and wipe out those 3-4 supers which large alliance sent against them.

So now small alliance cannot confront large one, because has 1-2 or has no at all supers, against 50 supers of large ally.

After implementation of my suggestion, large ally will usually send not more than 3-5 supers against small one, and small ally can easily confront them with 30-40 dreadhoughts and carriers.

By the way, i heard a lot about "dreadnoughts became useless with supercaps introduction". Here it is - dreadnoughts are back - first - as a counter-measure to fleets with 1-2 supercaps, second - as very cheap, but still effective structures-killers.