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Aivonen, the Truth
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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#61 - 2012-01-24 13:24:41 UTC
/me confirming Aivonen has not been auctioned off to the highest bidding corporation in the Gallente Federation.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-01-30 00:34:39 UTC
ShockedThe support Tibus Heth has is a direct result of the fear of what he might do without that support. What megacorporation wishes to go against the 'State.' Tibus Heth has control of the State Protectorate and the Caldari Navy, why would any of these corporations want to risk everything they have built?

Yes, Tibus Heth helped in the reclaiming of Caldari Prime, and for that I am grateful. However, without Tibus Heth, we would have done it eventually, his actions only hastened it. As you even admit, Tibus Heth has overstepped his reponsibilities.Shocked



First, Heth has no control over the STPRO whats so ever, it is a capsuleer corporation. Second, we would have never reclaimed Caldari Prime without him because our economy and political system at the time were both on the verge of colapse. If Heth had not stepped in to stop this then we would all be living in the slums while the corrupt made even more money of our labour.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#63 - 2012-01-30 00:42:28 UTC
Alena Strazinka wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Alena Strazinka wrote:


If you seek 'rumors', here is one that Vapautusliike has gleemed from our sources within the state: Tibus Heth intends to ban all Ishukone citizens from enrolling in the Science and Trade Institute. This would apply to Ishukone citizens currently enrolled, as well.

Haven't heard about this one either. You would think they at least could inform the guy who have been spending 9½ years of his life promoting the corporation about such dramatic changes. You aren't just pulling my leg here, are you?

Oh, by the way, do you have any time period for when these things should have transpired?


And why would Tibus Heth tell you? You're a capsuleer, and Heth's hate of capsuleers is well known. And the Provists don't need the permission of anyone to conduct their crack downs or restrictions. Their will is law in the State; and that is precisely what we're fighting against.



Heth does not hate capsuleer's. Why would he promote there use and reward them if he disliked them? Also while we are on the subject of rumers. In the Enaluri system caldari citizens are being abused and killed by Federation forces for the simple act of letting the STPRO base out of there system. Quick lets start a revelusion against Jacus Roden.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#64 - 2012-01-30 17:10:45 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
First, Heth has no control over the STPRO whats so ever, it is a capsuleer corporation. Second, we would have never reclaimed Caldari Prime without him because our economy and political system at the time were both on the verge of colapse. If Heth had not stepped in to stop this then we would all be living in the slums while the corrupt made even more money of our labour.

I'm not quite sure where you are getting this information Mr. Shadow. The STPRO is a branch of the Caldari Navy, which reports to Tibus Heth. This would mean that the State Protectorate is under the command of Tibus Heth.

I disagree with your conclusion in regards to Caldari Prime. It may have taken longer, it may have been accomplished without loss of life...either way, it is past history and there is no way to certainly know what different paths would have lead to.

In regards to the quality of life...there are still those who do live in the slums. As capsuleers we do not have to worry about such circumstances for ourselves anymore, but not everyone is so lucky.

Tibus Heth must be made responsible for his actions.
Aquila Shadow
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-02-01 05:18:37 UTC
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:
First, Heth has no control over the STPRO whats so ever, it is a capsuleer corporation. Second, we would have never reclaimed Caldari Prime without him because our economy and political system at the time were both on the verge of colapse. If Heth had not stepped in to stop this then we would all be living in the slums while the corrupt made even more money of our labour.

I'm not quite sure where you are getting this information Mr. Shadow. The STPRO is a branch of the Caldari Navy, which reports to Tibus Heth. This would mean that the State Protectorate is under the command of Tibus Heth.

I disagree with your conclusion in regards to Caldari Prime. It may have taken longer, it may have been accomplished without loss of life...either way, it is past history and there is no way to certainly know what different paths would have lead to.

In regards to the quality of life...there are still those who do live in the slums. As capsuleers we do not have to worry about such circumstances for ourselves anymore, but not everyone is so lucky.

Tibus Heth must be made responsible for his actions.


The state protectorate has no affiliation with the caldari navy other then the fact its a caldari corparation. I served in it and the only time i ever saw caldari navy units was at tactical complexes or "PLEXES" as they are more comanly known. Also in regards to the slums thing. Every nation has slums it just a fact of life. If Heth had not came along then more of us would be living there. even you and me may never have come to be capsuleer if he had not come along.

                                              "Let Vigilance Be Your Sword"
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#66 - 2012-02-01 17:51:39 UTC
Aquila Shadow wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Aquila Shadow wrote:
First, Heth has no control over the STPRO whats so ever, it is a capsuleer corporation. Second, we would have never reclaimed Caldari Prime without him because our economy and political system at the time were both on the verge of colapse. If Heth had not stepped in to stop this then we would all be living in the slums while the corrupt made even more money of our labour.

I'm not quite sure where you are getting this information Mr. Shadow. The STPRO is a branch of the Caldari Navy, which reports to Tibus Heth. This would mean that the State Protectorate is under the command of Tibus Heth.

I disagree with your conclusion in regards to Caldari Prime. It may have taken longer, it may have been accomplished without loss of life...either way, it is past history and there is no way to certainly know what different paths would have lead to.

In regards to the quality of life...there are still those who do live in the slums. As capsuleers we do not have to worry about such circumstances for ourselves anymore, but not everyone is so lucky.

Tibus Heth must be made responsible for his actions.


The state protectorate has no affiliation with the caldari navy other then the fact its a caldari corparation. I served in it and the only time i ever saw caldari navy units was at tactical complexes or "PLEXES" as they are more comanly known. Also in regards to the slums thing. Every nation has slums it just a fact of life. If Heth had not came along then more of us would be living there. even you and me may never have come to be capsuleer if he had not come along.


The State Protectorate is technically affiliated with the Caldari Navy, even if you didn't see Caldari Navy units that often, it wouldn't affect the connection between the two.

I agree that all nations have their slums, and that is what I was pointing out. I'm not so sure that without Tibus Heth we would be in the situation you describe, but I guess we will never know now.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-02-01 21:20:06 UTC
The State Protectorate is most definitely affiliated with the Caldari Navy. As a matter of fact they give you decorations for outstanding performance.

On another note, while I may be a Federation loyalist since a year or two after becoming a capsuleer, my childhood and roots are in the State. The economy and living conditions for the proletariat before Heth's rise to power was appalling. The Executors and Directors of corporations squandered their money while the working class slaved away day in and day out. As a matter of fact it is one of the reasons that I became a Federation loyalist. Heth's rise to power was something the State needed; a way to get the system back to rewarding those who are skilled and do hard work. He may have stepped over his boundaries with the war against the Federation, but it was needed for the culture and stability of the Caldari State as a whole. Once the process of weeding out the corrupt and inept is complete (I'm still not sure it is), Heth's reign of power will dwindle as people start thinking his usefulness has been overextended.

There's nothing more Caldarian than removing a leader from power that has overstayed his welcome, and thus Heth's days are numbered.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#68 - 2012-02-29 00:29:06 UTC

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Hamish Grayson
#69 - 2012-02-29 00:51:52 UTC
Hilato Talkori wrote:
At this point, Tibus Heth maintains control of the militia and navy, as previously stated .


In theory. There are a lot of old families in officer corps of the Navy. The Home Guard too, for that matter. Old, pround families for whom Haajakin kalen has a new meaning.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-03-01 04:56:50 UTC
Heth's a tyrant, yes, and he's wasting the Caldari people and the Caldari spirit on a war that doesn't need to be fought. What people need to remember, though, is that the Caldari people are a patient and noble society, able to weather much injustice and discomfort, but they have a specific limit and if you cross that, ally or foe, you will regret it immediately.

In the fullness of time, Heth will go. If he's very, very fortunate he will lose only his position and his honour.

What the Federation - and we, as its subjects - must remember is that we've made very lofty claims about possession of the moral high-ground. The Federation wants its security, the Caldari want Caldari Prime, and at the end of the day, what both sides want is an end to the fighting. We have a lot of their systems right now, and they have none of ours - we could be magnanimous, and offer peace with terms amenable to the Caldari. If Heth gets in the way of that, he'll quickly lose what remaining support he has.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#71 - 2012-03-02 14:22:56 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Heth's a tyrant, yes, and he's wasting the Caldari people and the Caldari spirit on a war that doesn't need to be fought. What people need to remember, though, is that the Caldari people are a patient and noble society, able to weather much injustice and discomfort, but they have a specific limit and if you cross that, ally or foe, you will regret it immediately.

In the fullness of time, Heth will go. If he's very, very fortunate he will lose only his position and his honour.

What the Federation - and we, as its subjects - must remember is that we've made very lofty claims about possession of the moral high-ground. The Federation wants its security, the Caldari want Caldari Prime, and at the end of the day, what both sides want is an end to the fighting. We have a lot of their systems right now, and they have none of ours - we could be magnanimous, and offer peace with terms amenable to the Caldari. If Heth gets in the way of that, he'll quickly lose what remaining support he has.

I believe you are correct sir, it is only a matter of time before Heth will lose the support he does still retain. When that happens, we remain optimistic that some sort of resolution might come about in regards to this incessant war. However, that matter of time still seems to be a ways off, and it is only with more support that those of us opposing Heth can expect to hasten it. For now, Vigilans Aeternum is growing and training, so that when the time comes, we will be ready.