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Aivonen, the Truth
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Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#41 - 2012-01-23 20:19:56 UTC
Alright, I will attempt to address everything brought up...please forgive me if I miss something.

Mr. Datloran, I apologize, but I am not familiar with the encounter that you describe.

In regards to loyalty to Heth, my wording was poor. I can not say, as you have pointed out that Heth has no support. For in fact, there would be no provists if that were so. However, there are many that do oppose Heth, and that he has taken advantage of, which as I have pointed out, has been documented.

Mr. Caine, while in regards to the Aivonen situation, I have been unable to produce anything, and no one has been able to give me any method of doing so, I must add. In regards to Ishukone citizens, the latest historical volume released, relates many examples. First, it speaks of Tibus Heth nearly driving Ishukone corporation into the ground, and essentially destroying the lives of everyone there. It speaks of the actions of Ishukone CEO Mens Reppola resisting Heth, and having his daughter thrown out of the State Science academy as a result. There are more examples, which I would encourage you to look up yourself.

Mrs. Vitalia, Tibus Heth rose to power due to his actions in starting and during the initial stages of the war with the Gallente Federation. I had already stated this, and it is based on fact. My wordage was admitted poorly chosen as mentioned in regards to Mr. Datloran.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#42 - 2012-01-23 20:25:05 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:


Heth does not have the support of the populace, he rules only because the war gives him leverage.


Heth rose to power with popular consent well before the war started. Back to school for you.


Clearly if anyone needs schooling, it's you for reading comprehension.

Heth may have risen to power before the war, but it's the war that keeps him there despite his support waning.

Thank you Mr. Marellus for your support.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-01-23 20:27:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Ok, I guess you should see this old news flash and perhaps look a bit into what initially triggered the "Empyrean War", as you put it.

It also brings to question why Ishukone should side with the Gallente, considering it was their headquarters that got devastated in the unprovoked attack by the Gallente, and as such be in opposition to Heth.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#44 - 2012-01-23 20:33:40 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It also brings to question why Ishukone should side with the Gallente, considering it was their headquarters that got devastated in the unprovoked attack by the Gallente, and as such be in opposition to Heth.


One rogue general who's actions were disavowed by the Federation doesn't constitute as an attack by "the Gallente."

Before the tragic event Ishukone and the Federation held strong ties, I wouldn't be surprised to see old bridges remain intact between the two since.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#45 - 2012-01-23 20:34:47 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Ok, I guess you should see this old news flash and perhaps look a bit into what initially triggered the "Empyrean War", as you put it.

It also brings to question why Ishukone should side with the Gallente, considering it was their headquarters that got devastated in the unprovoked attack by the Gallente, and as such be in opposition to Heth.

I had not been made aware of this incident...do you happen to have the date for this attack available? I was unsuccessful attempting to locate it.

To be clear, I am not advocating support of the Federation. I am advocating the removal of Tibus Heth.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-01-23 20:49:01 UTC
It was in May YC110.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#47 - 2012-01-23 20:59:58 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-01-23 21:03:00 UTC
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.


Everyone knows Noir piloted that Nyx himself, don't be silly.

I also have no idea whom this 'broker' is you speak of. Some sort of made-up 'boogey man' to lay your problems against perhaps?

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#49 - 2012-01-23 21:06:53 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.


Everyone knows Noir piloted that Nyx himself, don't be silly.

I also have no idea whom this 'broker' is you speak of. Some sort of made-up 'boogey man' to lay your problems against perhaps?


Mrs. Vitalia, I would suggest you recheck the events. Event's history is provided.
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-01-23 21:16:29 UTC
Prior to my employment with SHOP, myself and my comrades stationed the bulk of our forces in the Aivonen station while we were engaging in ... lets say the "privateering" business in the area. We were headquartered there for several years, and I can tell you all that, at the very least, my crew rarely disembarked from my vessels during the time they were docked there. When I disembarked my ships, I was always treated most cordially, as is to be expected when the isk would flow freely from my wallet to the station services for the repairing of my ship. And there never seemed to be a lack of willing crew members when my ships took damage enough to cause loss of life. I would say strangely willing, given the profession I was employed in. I certainly can't produce any hard evidence, but if I were to ask some of my crew that came from that station who are still with me today, I'm sure they'd have few good things to say about the occupying forces that were within that station.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-01-23 21:19:32 UTC
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.


Everyone knows Noir piloted that Nyx himself, don't be silly.

I also have no idea whom this 'broker' is you speak of. Some sort of made-up 'boogey man' to lay your problems against perhaps?


Mrs. Vitalia, I would suggest you recheck the events. Event's history is provided.


((I believe all of the Broker incidents are still quite outside of IC knowledge for any of us, yes? Especially the Nyx incident. If it were public knowledge the whole Empryean war rationales start falling apart. ))

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#52 - 2012-01-23 21:19:52 UTC
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.


Everyone knows Noir piloted that Nyx himself, don't be silly.

I also have no idea whom this 'broker' is you speak of. Some sort of made-up 'boogey man' to lay your problems against perhaps?


Mrs. Vitalia, I would suggest you recheck the events. Event's history is provided.


Looks like one of the conspiracy theorists has changed his page once again. This Broker theory is nothing more than a rumour that has no evidence to support it's claims. Of course if you have anything solid to the contrary please do bring it to the table.

Otherwise I suggest personally you don't go down this road, you've probably come across some whackjob's Galnet Page where the Broker exists and that cats are secretly planning to take over the universe. It's the sort of place Gutter Press gets their news.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#53 - 2012-01-23 21:20:27 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
Prior to my employment with SHOP, myself and my comrades stationed the bulk of our forces in the Aivonen station while we were engaging in ... lets say the "privateering" business in the area. We were headquartered there for several years, and I can tell you all that, at the very least, my crew rarely disembarked from my vessels during the time they were docked there. When I disembarked my ships, I was always treated most cordially, as is to be expected when the isk would flow freely from my wallet to the station services for the repairing of my ship. And there never seemed to be a lack of willing crew members when my ships took damage enough to cause loss of life. I would say strangely willing, given the profession I was employed in. I certainly can't produce any hard evidence, but if I were to ask some of my crew that came from that station who are still with me today, I'm sure they'd have few good things to say about the occupying forces that were within that station.

I cannot say anything bad against the hundreds of pilots in the Militia and other corporations in service of the State. Many of them are decent people who are simply following orders. As previously mentioned, my issue lies with Tibus Heth.

I can assure you that upon my arrival to Aivonen VI, the situation was quite poor. The stations have always been kept nice, and many of the crew are polite, especially as you mentioned when the isk is flowing.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#54 - 2012-01-23 21:26:08 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Hilato Talkori wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
It was in May YC110.

Thank you.

After reviewing the materials, it does still support my previous claims. The incident was instigated by the terrorist known as "The Broker" and was not in fact instigated by the Gallente Federation or Admiral Noir. It should be noted that Admiral Noir was in fact dedicated to seeking peace between our two factions, and his memory ought not be tainted by "The Broker's" actions.

It does show that Mr. Heth used these events to take control of the State and to solidify his control. His actions since then have been ones that have harmed the citizens of Ishukone as well as costing the lives of all who have died in service of the State's war against the Federation. He must answer for these actions, and this is what Vigilans Aeternum has been advocating.


Everyone knows Noir piloted that Nyx himself, don't be silly.

I also have no idea whom this 'broker' is you speak of. Some sort of made-up 'boogey man' to lay your problems against perhaps?


Mrs. Vitalia, I would suggest you recheck the events. Event's history is provided.


((I believe all of the Broker incidents are still quite outside of IC knowledge for any of us, yes? Especially the Nyx incident. If it were public knowledge the whole Empryean war rationales start falling apart. ))

((I wasn't aware any of this was outside of IC knowledge, especially considering it was listed on the wiki.))

Mr. Marellus, if indeed this was the act of conspiracy theorists, then I stand corrected. However, it is possible that this Broker does exist. There have been those throughout history who have acted from the shadows, rarely given any evidence as to their existence. I had no knowledge of this incident prior to my recent research, I am simply showing what I have found.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#55 - 2012-01-23 21:38:10 UTC
(Its something that's been talked about. Essentially, dont consider the EVEwiki to be in character knowledge, since theres no possible way anyone could have known about that incident. Someone with more programming skill and time than me should make some sort of compendium of in-character knowledge)

Have you considered getting yourself checked? I hear that extreme naiveity and willingness to believe anything told is a potential symptom of capsuleer dementia.

Consider taking a vacation.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-01-23 21:43:36 UTC
((Apologies, I should have contacted you privately. I'll see myself to the thread exit :) ))

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#57 - 2012-01-23 21:47:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilato Talkori
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
(Its something that's been talked about. Essentially, dont consider the EVEwiki to be in character knowledge, since theres no possible way anyone could have known about that incident. Someone with more programming skill and time than me should make some sort of compendium of in-character knowledge)

Have you considered getting yourself checked? I hear that extreme naiveity and willingness to believe anything told is a potential symptom of capsuleer dementia.

Consider taking a vacation.

((gotcha, thanks for the clarification))

It isn't that I necessarily believe in the Broker, especially with the explanation given as to conspiracy theorists. I simply am researching the event, and interested in sharing my discoveries.

Silas Vitalia wrote:
((Apologies, I should have contacted you privately. I'll see myself to the thread exit :) ))

((Don't worry about it, indeed, as it looks the evidence may have been altered))

((EDIT)) It appears that the Broker does exist. The Chronicles do have record of the previous link.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#58 - 2012-01-24 00:36:44 UTC
(( chronicles are not a public IC library but are to be considered OOC knowledge as well. Some are descriptive and can be used as a source for PF, for example 'State Factionalism' or 'Tommorrow a Dream', or to extract some day-to-day PF by giving a glimpse to what life in the cluster is. The one you quoted is certainly OOC. ))

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
Hilato Talkori
Vigilans Aeternum
#59 - 2012-01-24 03:46:10 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
(( chronicles are not a public IC library but are to be considered OOC knowledge as well. Some are descriptive and can be used as a source for PF, for example 'State Factionalism' or 'Tommorrow a Dream', or to extract some day-to-day PF by giving a glimpse to what life in the cluster is. The one you quoted is certainly OOC. ))

((So, how to prove the existence of a character that is known to exist, without being able to use such materials? Even if you know it is true, it ends up being ridiculed? And even after a google search, what does PF stand for? Thanks for the assistance by the way, it is greatly appreciated.))
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#60 - 2012-01-24 12:27:41 UTC
(( Simple: You can't prove it. The real circumstances as described in TEA are known by exactly two persons, namely Heth himself and the Broker. Gariushi had some contact, but he's kind of not available anymore.
PF stands for 'prime fiction', and is basically every kind of background information/lore that is written by CCP, and not by the players. Chronicles and the fiction articles in evelopedia are such a source, but not everything that's written there is common knowledge.

Also let's not use the IGS for ooc discussions, I suggest using private messages or that comfy place: http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/ ))

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.