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Time Dilation = justification for CCP FAIL

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DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-01-22 13:13:53 UTC
Hey OP,
Without tidi, you'd be staring at a black screen as your ship explodes to death for no apparent reason.
Please report yourself to the nearest biomass facility in order to atone for your crimes against humanity.
Sincerely,
The entire EVE community
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-01-22 13:15:33 UTC
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.



so... did you ask for node reinforcement?

no???

then it's your own fault. Quit whining.
Aineko Macx
#43 - 2012-01-22 13:19:40 UTC
TiDi is working rather well actually.

However, what worries is the amount of TiDi, i.e., how easily the server gets overloaded. 150 jump anywhere in or out... bam, TiDi. If 1400 makes TiDi run at 10-15%, it means the server would only support about 140-210 pilots fighting at full speed (right, it doesn't scale linearly, so it's a bit more). I thought the server(code) was in better shape by now.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-01-22 13:21:13 UTC
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.



so... did you ask for node reinforcement?

no???

then it's your own fault. Quit whining.


actually, both RDN and GSF asked for the node to be reinforced, but HEH it never happened and we fought with 10% dilation

well they fought with 10% dilation i was OUTSIDE not playing eve online

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-01-22 13:23:40 UTC
Aineko Macx wrote:
TiDi is working rather well actually.

However, what worries is the amount of TiDi, i.e., how easily the server gets overloaded. 150 jump anywhere in or out... bam, TiDi. If 1400 makes TiDi run at 10-15%, it means the server would only support about 140-210 pilots fighting at full speed (right, it doesn't scale linearly, so it's a bit more). I thought the server(code) was in better shape by now.




Yeah I noted that in the feedback thread.

I would think that they could crack it down or add a pre-check loop that would allow fleets to move easier, because warping around at half speed when you are trying to move from system to system is aggravating.
Biytor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-01-22 13:27:39 UTC
TiDi seemed to work just fine.

Yes things were slow, but that's the entire point of TiDi. I was able to load the entire grid, target, shoot, move and die. It is interesting to see yourself die in slow motion, most of the time I just was back in station and had to read a kill mail to find out what happened. So I would say it's working, now it needs improvement.
Grimner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-01-22 13:53:53 UTC
It work great for me also.
Zleon Leigh
#48 - 2012-01-22 13:55:40 UTC
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


You can't "fix" physics.

CCP should be happy that they can support 300 vs 300 (or whatever a non-reinforced node will support) and put gate locks in place to keep it below that. Spawn bypass gates (or reroute in place gates) to jump people past the fight - allowing reinforcing fleets to engage in nearby systems.

CCP won the epeen award for largest true PvP many-on-many a long time ago at much lower numbers. Enough already. CCP encouraging ever larger massive battles is simply wasting resources that could be used to fix addressable bugs and realistic, usable content.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2012-01-22 14:50:10 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


You can't "fix" physics.

CCP should be happy that they can support 300 vs 300 (or whatever a non-reinforced node will support) and put gate locks in place to keep it below that. Spawn bypass gates (or reroute in place gates) to jump people past the fight - allowing reinforcing fleets to engage in nearby systems.

CCP won the epeen award for largest true PvP many-on-many a long time ago at much lower numbers. Enough already. CCP encouraging ever larger massive battles is simply wasting resources that could be used to fix addressable bugs and realistic, usable content.


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.
Zleon Leigh
#50 - 2012-01-22 15:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
baltec1 wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


You can't "fix" physics.

CCP should be happy that they can support 300 vs 300 (or whatever a non-reinforced node will support) and put gate locks in place to keep it below that. Spawn bypass gates (or reroute in place gates) to jump people past the fight - allowing reinforcing fleets to engage in nearby systems.

CCP won the epeen award for largest true PvP many-on-many a long time ago at much lower numbers. Enough already. CCP encouraging ever larger massive battles is simply wasting resources that could be used to fix addressable bugs and realistic, usable content.


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.


Nope, just tired of hearing about tears of "I was in 500 man fleet and couldn't do ****!" for the past two years.

BTW - don't talk about something you don't have a clue about. Client side has NOTHING to do with your 500vs500 fight lag. It's all server side.

Because of TiDi being rolled out - I just now experienced TiDi in a 0.0 system with ***17*** people in local. Not a fight to be seen.... yet another broken mechanic brought on by efforts to babysit the monster alliances.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2012-01-22 15:40:06 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.


Nope, just tired of hearing about tears of "I was in 500 man fleet and couldn't do ****!" for the past two years.

BTW - don't talk about something you don't have a clue about. Client side has NOTHING to do with your 500vs500 fight lag. It's all server side.



Because its CCP that makes your pooter crash in a big fight. Theres a reason why people say turn down the graphics and turn off brakets in these fightsBlink
Zleon Leigh
#52 - 2012-01-22 15:46:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.


Nope, just tired of hearing about tears of "I was in 500 man fleet and couldn't do ****!" for the past two years.

BTW - don't talk about something you don't have a clue about. Client side has NOTHING to do with your 500vs500 fight lag. It's all server side.



Because its CCP that makes your pooter crash in a big fight. Theres a reason why people say turn down the graphics and turn off brakets in these fightsBlink


If the server side is drawing brackets CCP implementation is plain stupid. Turning off brackets and turning down graphics does help low-end systems. Still has nothing to do with server lag/freeze/fail.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
YkkonenOnKakkonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-01-22 15:47:15 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


You can't "fix" physics.

CCP should be happy that they can support 300 vs 300 (or whatever a non-reinforced node will support) and put gate locks in place to keep it below that. Spawn bypass gates (or reroute in place gates) to jump people past the fight - allowing reinforcing fleets to engage in nearby systems.

CCP won the epeen award for largest true PvP many-on-many a long time ago at much lower numbers. Enough already. CCP encouraging ever larger massive battles is simply wasting resources that could be used to fix addressable bugs and realistic, usable content.


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.


Nope, just tired of hearing about tears of "I was in 500 man fleet and couldn't do ****!" for the past two years.

BTW - don't talk about something you don't have a clue about. Client side has NOTHING to do with your 500vs500 fight lag. It's all server side.

Because of TiDi being rolled out - I just now experienced TiDi in a 0.0 system with ***17*** people in local. Not a fight to be seen.... yet another broken mechanic brought on by efforts to babysit the monster alliances.


TiDi is node wide. So it might that there was a fight going on some other system on the node?
And fleets (200+) cause tidi to spike to 10% when they jump systems.
Zleon Leigh
#54 - 2012-01-22 15:58:31 UTC
YkkonenOnKakkonen wrote:


TiDi is node wide. So it might that there was a fight going on some other system on the node?
And fleets (200+) cause tidi to spike to 10% when they jump systems.


If TiDi is node wide - then the implementation is completely wrong.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-01-22 15:59:16 UTC
My experience with TiDi is that it is great for fleet battles but horrible for jumping through gates. Yes it is hard to lock targets, but it is harder to lock targets with a black or frozen screen. TiDi is a step in the right direction. Now, if we could only cut down on the 5 minute stargate jumps (with traffic control) ...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-01-22 16:00:24 UTC
YkkonenOnKakkonen wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Milli Sanchez wrote:
Currently fighting in 92D. 1260 in local and dilation is so bad I cant lock anything. Shocked

Dilation is FAIL. This is NOT fun and simply not worth participating in big fleet PvP anymore.

CCP stop thinking up awesome technical work arounds and fix the #$% game.


You can't "fix" physics.

CCP should be happy that they can support 300 vs 300 (or whatever a non-reinforced node will support) and put gate locks in place to keep it below that. Spawn bypass gates (or reroute in place gates) to jump people past the fight - allowing reinforcing fleets to engage in nearby systems.

CCP won the epeen award for largest true PvP many-on-many a long time ago at much lower numbers. Enough already. CCP encouraging ever larger massive battles is simply wasting resources that could be used to fix addressable bugs and realistic, usable content.


The only people who say this are those who wernt there or are bitter they try to play on a poor mans PC from 2002. The last two fights have been epic and worked oh so good.


Nope, just tired of hearing about tears of "I was in 500 man fleet and couldn't do ****!" for the past two years.

BTW - don't talk about something you don't have a clue about. Client side has NOTHING to do with your 500vs500 fight lag. It's all server side.

Because of TiDi being rolled out - I just now experienced TiDi in a 0.0 system with ***17*** people in local. Not a fight to be seen.... yet another broken mechanic brought on by efforts to babysit the monster alliances.


TiDi is node wide. So it might that there was a fight going on some other system on the node?
And fleets (200+) cause tidi to spike to 10% when they jump systems.




200 was getting 25-30 yesterday, 400 was getting to 10.......which means you warp in like 1/8th time Shocked
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
#57 - 2012-01-22 16:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tres Farmer
Zleon Leigh wrote:
*snip*

If the server side is drawing brackets CCP implementation is plain stupid. Turning off brackets and turning down graphics does help low-end systems. Still has nothing to do with server lag/freeze/fail.

Server doesn't draw brackets.. the client is.

The physics simulation of that star system (that's the one we're talking about here) is being overloaded and to get all the calculations done in one loop to serve every dataset in it's realm (modules activation, ship movements, locks, repps, shooting, etc. pp.) it increases it's loop time = TiDi.


To the other brainiac with the python bashing.. 90% of the critical code is already in C++/C server and client side.
CCP explained that about 9 months ago in one of their blogs.. the remaining 10% are being worked on, but are more complex so no easy & fast results there.

Afaik currently they're working on a method to pull star systems from a node where one star system is being overloaded.. mild reinforcing on the fly if you so will (so the overloaded starsystem then has a full node to calc the crap out of it).
The problem they got with that is: for moving solar systems from one node to another you'll loose your connection to it and so far would need to log in again.. dunno how far they made it with this. Last news 8+ months old.

As for the multi-threading thing.. where you spread a solar system over several nodes - so you might end up with a single grid running on one node.. future talk. Can't remember any specific talk by CCP about this.. so not within the next 24 months.
Zleon Leigh
#58 - 2012-01-22 16:04:50 UTC
Mire Stoude wrote:
My experience with TiDi is that it is great for fleet battles but horrible for jumping through gates. Yes it is hard to lock targets, but it is harder to lock targets with a black or frozen screen. TiDi is a step in the right direction. Now, if we could only cut down on the 5 minute stargate jumps (with traffic control) ...


Can't be done - once you unsync clock of the fleet fight system from the rest of EVE you have to make up the any lag difference when you eventually rejoin the rest of EVE. Better hope those blob fleet fights don't last long - you could be sitting on that dark screen for a looong time.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it
YkkonenOnKakkonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-01-22 16:04:52 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
YkkonenOnKakkonen wrote:


TiDi is node wide. So it might that there was a fight going on some other system on the node?
And fleets (200+) cause tidi to spike to 10% when they jump systems.


If TiDi is node wide - then the implementation is completely wrong.


If the node is getting hammered so much that it has to slow the game down to 10% of its normal speed then why should it work any faster on other systems the node is running? It somehow magically gets more cpu time out of thin air to run the other systems on the node?
Zleon Leigh
#60 - 2012-01-22 16:06:00 UTC
I've changed my mind about TiDi breaking low populated systems. If TiDi kicks in I know a blob fleet is on its way. Thanks for expanding local!!!


Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it