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Recent incursion issues

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#201 - 2012-01-22 16:34:58 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
On another note, the few times i did incursions, i found it boring as hell, i can't see how players could do for that hours on end. I never bothered again. Yes it is an isk faucet that needs a serious looking over by CCP IMO.


Its done by the same people who run around other MMOs with their max level char with max pimped gear gathering gold they no longer need as there is nothing to spend it on.
Calisto Fox
Doomheim
#202 - 2012-01-22 16:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Calisto Fox
Andski wrote:
Calisto Fox wrote:
I found 4 or 5 radars that gave me approx 15m each and 5 GSO's which netted me 3 C-type shield boosters at 350m each and numerous hardeners ranging from 10m each to 50m each. In all i finished my day 1.2b up on when i started.

Theres your 120m per hour in high sec, go cry to CCP and if you cry enough tears maybe they'll buckle under the pressure of bitter null bears and change the mechanics to suit you. Not like it hasnt happened before right?......


Yeah, nobody cares about drops. ISK changes hands in that case, it's not created out of thin air.


Like moo goo iskies you mean?
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2012-01-22 16:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Calisto Fox wrote:
Oh really? So what next on the witch hunt? L4 missions because they pay an easy 40m ph.

did you really miss several years of complaints about the risk vs reward ratio for lvl4s being completely skewed?

For years everybody's favorite complaint was that lvl4s were never intended to be done solo and should be moved to low-sec.

Before Dominion 0.0 dwellers had to have mission-running alts in high-sec to finance their pvp and ever since the CA nerf they have their Incursion alts in high-sec for the same reasons.

Only for a short time between the release of Dominion and the launch of incursions life was good (but during that time pvp sucked due to lag).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#204 - 2012-01-22 16:39:18 UTC
Calisto Fox wrote:
Like moo goo iskies you mean?
Correct. Moon goo does not create any ISK.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#205 - 2012-01-22 16:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
double post removed
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2012-01-22 16:40:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Calisto Fox wrote:
Oh really? So what next on the witch hunt? L4 missions because they pay an easy 40m ph.
…and that's the reason they have been a target for requests for nerfs for, oh, the last 4+ years or so, since the risk-vs-reward is so obviously off-kilter. So no, it's actually incursions that are the “next item” on the hunt.


Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount. Interesting then that the best bounties are in null sec who are interested in nerfing incurions instead. In the worst case scenario as some null bears have suggested simply removing the high sec earning altogether from them whilst retaining theirs which have much better earnings anyhow atm.

And you wonder why High sec pilots are worried about these biast motivations?

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
gfldex
#207 - 2012-01-22 16:42:12 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Quote from the recent produced CSM minutes:


"Both the CSM and CCP agree on that Incursions are good in terms of gameplay and ISK payout, but the time for adjustments based on player behavior data is at hand"

So rewards are fine.


Well, no. The linguistic construct "Statement A, but Statement B" is usually used when quality if fine but quantity is not or vice versa. It would be nice if the person who wrote the CSM minutes could clarify what that fairly loose statement actually means.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#208 - 2012-01-22 16:42:30 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-01-22 16:43:58 UTC
Damm finishing incursions as they were intended must be puting your isk/ hour throught the floor guys :(
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#210 - 2012-01-22 16:48:44 UTC
CCP Spitfire wrote:
Hello everyone,

In the interest of keeping the forum a bit less cluttered, I suggest keeping all feedback on the recent Brick Squad campaign in this thread (its title has been changed accordingly to provide a little extra clarity). I'd like to stress that this is not an attempt to censor the discussion or sweep things under the rug, but rather to maintain General Discussion in a more or less healthy state.

I have already sent the feedback on the whole "turbo-running incursions" situation to our developers and hope they will be able to pitch in here soon. Consolidating the conversation in one thread will allow them to read all the arguments more easily and provide their own thoughts in a single place.

We appreciate the concern of both parties involved and will definitely take all feedback into consideration.

Ninja edit: Please keep in mind that all forum rules are still in effect, and failure to adhere to them may result in warnings and/or bans.


Thats good.

Grumpy Owly wrote:
Quote from the recent produced CSM minutes:
"Both the CSM and CCP agree on that Incursions are good in terms of gameplay and ISK payout, but the time for adjustments based on player behavior data is at hand"



Much this both quotes.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Calisto Fox
Doomheim
#211 - 2012-01-22 16:50:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Calisto Fox wrote:
Like moo goo iskies you mean?
Correct. Moon goo does not create any ISK.



So it's given away free on the marketplace then right?

It doesnt spawn instant isks into your wallet like bounties/incursions do, but it creates moongoo from thin air, which is then sold for iskies to line your overlords pockets.

Moon goo has been hushed up for far too long and you null bears have had it too good with your moon isk printing machines, everytime its been brought up on these forums do you all rally to sweep it under the carpet and justify it.

Maybe its time for us carebears to kick up enough of a stink about the null goo isk faucets? Maybe if we all stamp our feet loud enough and complain at every oppertunity, then CCP might go ahead with the long overdue nerf.

Null tears = Best tears.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#212 - 2012-01-22 16:51:43 UTC
Can we please ban the word "iskies" on the forums?
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2012-01-22 16:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?


Look at the QEN for the last quarter of 2010, it shows how much the isk faucets that bounties contribute.

I'd love to see current figures of course as the values would have likley incresed, but these are the official last records we have.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#214 - 2012-01-22 16:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Calisto Fox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Calisto Fox wrote:
Like moo goo iskies you mean?
Correct. Moon goo does not create any ISK.



So it's given away free on the marketplace then right?

It doesnt spawn instant isks into your wallet like bounties/incursions do, but it creates moongoo from thin air, which is then sold for iskies to line your overlords pockets.

Moon goo has been hushed up for far too long and you null bears have had it too good with your moon isk printing machines, everytime its been brought up on these forums do you all rally to sweep it under the carpet and justify it.

Maybe its time for us carebears to kick up enough of a stink about the null goo isk faucets? Maybe if we all stamp our feet loud enough and complain at every oppertunity, then CCP might go ahead with the long overdue nerf.

Null tears = Best tears.


we obviously haven't been campaigning for a tech nerf since ever

but hey that's a fair trade, remove all significant isk faucets from highsec, nerf tech into the ground

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Krissada
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#215 - 2012-01-22 16:55:49 UTC
----- MORE ANNOUNCEMENTS HERE -----


Grief the Bears channel was unfortunately capped at 50 members. This has now been resolved.
Spread the word and join the channel. End the madness!

We will be taking down the highsec incursions today as well and we aim at around 20.00 EVE time.
So jump into the channel and stay tuned chaps o7.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#216 - 2012-01-22 16:57:10 UTC
Calisto Fox wrote:
So it's given away free on the marketplace then right?

It doesnt spawn instant isks into your wallet like bounties/incursions do, but it creates moongoo from thin air, which is then sold for iskies to line your overlords pockets.
…and that's the key difference: it doesn't create ISK — it actually removes ISK from the economy.
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Look at the QEN for the last quarter of 2010, it shows how much the isk faucets bounties contribute.
I know how much bounties contribute — you are making claims about incursions, which did not exist back then and for which, as far as I know, no numbers have been released.

So I'm asking you about your source and/or numbers to support your claim.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-01-22 16:58:05 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Of course bounties account for substantially more of an isk faucet overall than incursions alone. By quite a considerable amount.
Oh really? Source? Numbers?


Look at the QEN for the last quarter of 2010, it shows how much the isk faucets that bounties contribute.

I'd love to see current figures of course as the values would have likley incresed, but these are the official last records we have.


yeah Q4 2010, before incursions entered the game, nice one

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#218 - 2012-01-22 16:58:27 UTC
Calisto Fox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Calisto Fox wrote:
Like moo goo iskies you mean?
Correct. Moon goo does not create any ISK.



So it's given away free on the marketplace then right?

It doesnt spawn instant isks into your wallet like bounties/incursions do, but it creates moongoo from thin air, which is then sold for iskies to line your overlords pockets.

Moon goo has been hushed up for far too long and you null bears have had it too good with your moon isk printing machines, everytime its been brought up on these forums do you all rally to sweep it under the carpet and justify it.

Maybe its time for us carebears to kick up enough of a stink about the null goo isk faucets? Maybe if we all stamp our feet loud enough and complain at every oppertunity, then CCP might go ahead with the long overdue nerf.

Null tears = Best tears.


ISK Faucet = ISK entering the game

Moons create goo which is sold to other players for isk. No isk is created in this transaction.

Moon Goo (well, Tech) is a high value income source. But it is not an Isk Faucet.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2012-01-22 17:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
I don't understand why nobody takes issue with the proposal to increase the number of active incursions...

My view so far always has been that the isk/h earned in incursion ultimately doesn't matter because the number of pilots that can earn ISK running them is hard-capped (at a relatively low number even).

(in comparison lvl4 missions are far more problematic because an unlimited number of pilots can run them at a time)

The CSM pushing towards turning incursions into yet another unlimited resource is what worries me far more than whether you earn 60, 90 or 120m ISK/h running them.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#220 - 2012-01-22 17:09:21 UTC
Nerfing Tec Moons, umm no, Alliances go threw great expense, time etc to secure, defend and maintain these moons, its a reward for securing sov as well. bad idea.

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