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Minimum Scan Probe Strength for Exploration

Author
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#1 - 2012-01-20 01:28:29 UTC
First, I'd like to start off by saying this is my first topic. Pardon any infringements on forum etiquette.

Second, I'm a newb to exploration. I've fiddled with Hi-Sec Imicus stuff. I've read the many new topics on the forums,
but I haven't really got into it myself.

Now my question to you, the veteran(or not-so-veteran) explorers out there:

What kind of minimum scan probe strength do you find you need in order to scan down radar/mag/combat sites?

I'm interested in null-sec, but any information is good information.
Just looking for a ballpark figure, as well as any other relevant numbers necessary.

For example, with my shiny faction mods + charges, followed up by my current skill plan, I'm looking at
around 62 points of base sensor strength, with a .0875 AU base maximum deviation.

What do you think? Is it absolutely necessary to train more of those astrometric skills to even get the warpable hit,
or can I fudge it and move on to some other skills? Also, how successful are you at scanning down sites with your
scan strength and max deviation(if you don't mind sharing)?

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-01-20 01:54:11 UTC
Basically you want to have covops 4 and all the astrometrics skills at 4 if youre gonna do probing regularly.
Absolute minimum I'd say you want is covops 3, astro 4, astro support 3.

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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-01-20 03:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: 1-Up Mushroom
Absolute minimum to scan all sites in high-sec is Racial Frig III, your Racial Scanning frig and Astro I, anything more just decreases your scan time

EDIT: For anyone who says otherwise I used a Vexor with Astro I and could scan down all the sites to 100%, maybe there was 1 or 2 I couldn't because I was too lazy to spend the extra time to actually get it to 100%
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Emoleas Ozran
GeeksNGamers.COM
#4 - 2012-01-20 05:02:55 UTC
To get the hardest sites in low sec, you need 90 minimum. I tried with 80 scan strength and a perfect tetrahedron shape and could not get the signature scanned out (combat ladar with named faction pirate -- hardest low sec site to scan). Once I got 90 scan res I was able to scan it down (admittedly it was still some trouble to get it 100%, took some playing around with the tetrahedron size)

I now scan with 110 scan strength and have little problems getting any site to 100%, only the [hard] combat ladars still require me to go to 0.25 AU (though no special configuration required at all). Can tell what most signatures are by 4 AU.
Bent Barrel
#5 - 2012-01-20 08:04:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bent Barrel
I have 69 points on my exploration vexor (astro 4, rangefinding 3, pinpointing 3, acquisition 2), 2x medium gravity capacitor upgrade, sisters core probes, core probe launcher.

So far I could find anything in highsec, but most of the sites (except WH) at 0.25 AU range for 100% localisation.

EDIT: wrong sensor strength given :-(
iNFoRMaLiTY11
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-01-20 09:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: iNFoRMaLiTY11
Im sure there will be somone arguing like a madman but i managed to pinpoint mags, radars, ladars and combat sites in low sec, C1 and C5 wormholes (didnt test other places) in all of them without having rangefinding and pinpointing at all. However i did have amarr frig 5 and sisters launcher with sisters probes in magnate.

So far from my experience i can tell you that to actually get 100% you dont have to have pretty much any support skills at all. Just basic crap should be fine in theory.

However there are 2 catches:

One is that with low skills you need to have near perfect placement of probes at minimum and/or near minimum AU settings to get 100% (i.e. warpable) hit. This can take literally seven frustrations and advanced irl anger management trained to 5 to do.

Besides frustration there is time constrain. These days with good supports, cov ops, sisters or T2 gear and low PPH + PPF implants (if you feel silly rich why not even low grade virtue set, i dont do it) it takes far far far less effort to get 100% hit and some sites can be found even with 2 AU settings and the time it takes me less can be measured in multiples.

Also pro tips and very common mistakes people do:

When overlapping speheres it is better for the signature to "touch" the edge of spehere rather than inside of bubble.

4 probes per sig is the crappiest number for probes. Easiest multiple probes is 7 - north, west, east, south, up, down +middle. More probes allow bigger offsetting on probe accuracy.

Deviation modifier from gear/skills is actually the factor of how much you can be "wrong" of your placement of bubbles. This is retardedly underestimated by majority of community in how fast you can scan your sig down and people use probe strength as if it was stat made by god himself.

Combat sigs (pos structures, ships etc. with combat probes) take a LOT less strength with worse placement of bubbles to pinpoint.
---
My theory that i can not prove which means "gut feeling true facts" is that the strength and deviaton required is based on type of site not system you probe in. I only have this feeling as i tend to pinpoint crappy gravs and wormholes fastest compared to high end radar/mags regardless of which class wh or wheter in low/null im in.

Edit: Once i am able to confirm or deny a few theories i have regarding probing im considering making a guide out of it.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#7 - 2012-01-20 09:18:31 UTC
Aim for around 80 and you will be able to scan down everything (you will have to use more than 4 probes on the weakest sigs). What's interesting is that the hardest sites to scan down are the same strength in highsec,lowsec and nullsec - so if you can pin say a local backup server in highsec, you can also pin a 10/10 DED in nullsec.

Of course if you fly a bonused ship this number will be easier to reach than in an unbonused.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#8 - 2012-01-20 09:27:41 UTC
iNFoRMaLiTY11 wrote:
---
My theory that i can not prove which means "gut feeling true facts" is that the strength and deviaton required is based on type of site not system you probe in. I only have this feeling as i tend to pinpoint crappy gravs and wormholes fastest compared to high end radar/mags regardless of which class wh or wheter in low/null im in.


I think you just discovered what people are doing with deep space probes (and normal ones too): lookee here

And yeah deviation is nice, but you sorta need probe strength first to be able to lock sites.
iNFoRMaLiTY11
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-01-20 10:20:42 UTC
Yeah i knew about DSP-s before. But it has also backfired in my face in the way that people have made tables/guides on what DSP % would an inital scan have per site and that info has been off. Way too many times. Ill admit that DSP % hit i s a very good guesstimation option but i wouldnt bet my pod matter on it.
astara989
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-01-20 10:54:14 UTC
Does EFT display scan strength and deviation on fits?
Rubinia Valeska
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-01-20 16:13:55 UTC
astara989 wrote:
Does EFT display scan strength and deviation on fits?

Not sure about EFT but EveHQ does show base and modified scan strength on probes.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2012-01-20 16:52:05 UTC
Rubinia Valeska wrote:
astara989 wrote:
Does EFT display scan strength and deviation on fits?

Not sure about EFT but EveHQ does show base and modified scan strength on probes.


EFT does as well. Load your skills, load the right probe(s) in the launcher, right click, show charge info. Scan strength, as modified, will list correctly.

Oh, and I've never known the DSP guides to be off by more than .01 and that's likely due to me inputting my scan strength from memory rather than checking.
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#13 - 2012-01-21 01:07:06 UTC
Alot of great info here folks, thank y'all very much.
Especially that bit about Hi-Sec 'good' sites being just as hard to scan as null sec 10/10 sites, that was news to me.

While with all 5 lvl scanning skills I'm only reaching 70ish, I suppose some (hopefully) cheap implants will let
me reach that goal of 80 points.

Thanks again, and Fly Risky!

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.

M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#14 - 2012-01-21 03:59:40 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Absolute minimum to scan all sites in high-sec is Racial Frig III, your Racial Scanning frig and Astro I, anything more just decreases your scan time

EDIT: For anyone who says otherwise I used a Vexor with Astro I and could scan down all the sites to 100%, maybe there was 1 or 2 I couldn't because I was too lazy to spend the extra time to actually get it to 100%


M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#15 - 2012-01-21 04:01:14 UTC
SidtheKid100 wrote:
Alot of great info here folks, thank y'all very much.
Especially that bit about Hi-Sec 'good' sites being just as hard to scan as null sec 10/10 sites, that was news to me.

While with all 5 lvl scanning skills I'm only reaching 70ish, I suppose some (hopefully) cheap implants will let
me reach that goal of 80 points.

Thanks again, and Fly Risky!



LG virtues are like 2.6b. Put 2 scan rigs in your ship. And if you are aiming for an arbitrary number before you start scanning, aim for 110.
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#16 - 2012-01-21 13:36:06 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
EDIT: For anyone who says otherwise I used a Vexor with Astro I and could scan down all the sites to 100%, maybe there was 1 or 2 I couldn't because I was too lazy to spend the extra time to actually get it to 100%


Because you had the luck (or bad luck) that you never scanned in a system with weak signatures. (They are rarer anyway.) For sure you cannot scan down all such weak signatures in an ship without bonus and with low skills.
Xyla Vulchanus
Players vs. EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-03-10 14:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Xyla Vulchanus
Well I have covops V with rigs and sisters launchers and probes and I've been trying to look for radar sites with a total of 118 probe strength and 7 probes - what is odd is that I cannot get the sites lower than 4 au range. So nowhere near pinpointing the site. I don't think I'm doing anything particularly wrong, as I know how to probe. So, dunno, not sure about what more to do to get these sites except take all my skills to V.

Edit: Scratch that - I just went to null-sec and scanned down a radar site in less than 3 minutes. It must have been a bug or some ultra weird site that I couldn't pinpoint before.