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A non-stupid drake nerf

Author
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-01-20 20:23:40 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Since a Drake maxes at 80EHP with perfect skills, and loses to any rr BS gang... I can't help but wonder what the hell you are talking about. Maybe this is what they teach you in your special ed classes? Ugh


Its possible to get drakes over 120k EHP, not that it means anything. Buffer is life.

You know how you kill an RR BS gang? Make it jump through a gate after a target.

I love how people see a change or a 'nerf' and instantly think how it will affect 'them' without seeing the big picture.
(read: Drakes are flown outside of Empire people, with Arazu's and Scimitars. Thats the entire fleet comp.)



Nerf abaddons?



Or wait, did your post mean nerf guardians?

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Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-01-20 20:55:55 UTC
As I and many others have said, if ccp were to implement the changes they proposed in the CSM minutes to the drake, it is absolutely not a nerf. It is a buff, especially to HML pvp fit drakes.

HAM drakes, we'd have to see. Maybe the increased damage and selectable damage type will not offset the drop in tank, maybe.

PVE drakes, if you like being semi afk permatanking missions in your drake, it could be a nerf to you. If you wish to run missions efficiently (in a drake!?) then it is a buff.

But please keep whining about it before ccp and drake haters realize that they aren't nerfing the drake.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-01-20 21:06:43 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Xolve wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Since a Drake maxes at 80EHP with perfect skills, and loses to any rr BS gang... I can't help but wonder what the hell you are talking about. Maybe this is what they teach you in your special ed classes? Ugh


Its possible to get drakes over 120k EHP, not that it means anything. Buffer is life.

You know how you kill an RR BS gang? Make it jump through a gate after a target.

I love how people see a change or a 'nerf' and instantly think how it will affect 'them' without seeing the big picture.
(read: Drakes are flown outside of Empire people, with Arazu's and Scimitars. Thats the entire fleet comp.)



Nerf abaddons?



Or wait, did your post mean nerf guardians?


Neither.

I was saying that RR BS Fleets typically don't have a Logistics (or whats the point really of sacrificing that extra utility high)- and the best way to break them up, is to get them out of their tight little group as jumping them through a gate would (do I really need to explain this?)

Come on EP your smarter then this..
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-01-20 21:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
I guess my post was a little to smart for you.
Allow me to dumb it up a bit...



Abaddon gang with logi beats drake gang with logi every time... even if the Abaddons cross the gate after them. This is do to the great range of the Amarr guns and stupid range of the guardian RR. Did that work for you? Because my post seems to have gone over your head.



My OP was also pertaining to how the proposed "nerf" would not change the stupid drake blobs that seems it's intent. In fact, it might make them even more desirable. So it's fail on CCP, fail on CSM and fail on you EFT warriors who are speaking on subjects that you are not well educated on.

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Joe Kaperski
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-01-20 21:38:15 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
extreme versatility of the Drake.


Have you flown a Cane?

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-01-20 21:44:43 UTC
Joe Kaperski wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
extreme versatility of the Drake.


Have you flown a Cane?




Srsly.

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Lili Lu
#47 - 2012-01-20 22:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So yea, Nerf the Tornado
Reduce the Drakes EHP down to normal Battlecruiser levels.
& if you want to nerf the Drake army, nerf it's EHP and it's range with heavy missiles or you won't see the desired result.

1. nerf the Tornado - Ok, post a thread about this and provide arguments. But, just because there might be Tornado blobs, is not a good argument to not nerf the drake.

2. The removal of the resist bonus does nerf the EHP of the Drake. What exactly are you suggesting? Not much room to subtract actual shield hp on the Drake and keep it at "normal Battlecruiser levels." The ehp is mostly coming from the resist bonus. It goes and the ehp goes with it. Or maybe you are confusing ehp with pve regen tanking? In that case I would bet that an overall BC shield regen nerf is coming as well for all BCs anyway.

3. Heavy missile range- agreed. With skills heavy missiles put more damage out farther than any medium gun with equivalent skills. To even get comparable medium gun range to heavy missile range you need tech II gun ammo. And even then the 7 missiles will beat the 7 medium guns for dps at the extreme end of gun range. Of course at 10km or less theoretical ideal medium gun damage will overtake HM damage but then tracking comes into play in comparing say gleam v fury.

Regardless, as with an overall BC shield regen nerf possibility, there have been statements about reducing overall HM range. This could be why the Drake may also be getting a missile velocity bonus to replace its present bonuses. A velocity bonus would give HAMs a boost while the velocity bonus coupled with say a flight time reduction for all HM would not give a HM Drake any more range than it already has, simply preserve the current range + or - some amount.

We simply will not know what the Drake may look like til it hits the test server. And that new (nerfed is not really the best word, more like trimmed/refocused) Drake will probably not be the only new balancing alteration. It is enough though that the devs finally said, we can't have Drakes being the never-ending go to ship for pve and even pvp. It has had been the quickest route to level 4s and been a pvp fleet BS equivalent/alternative for too way long. Seriously, let's wait to see what collection of balancing changes hit the test server.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-01-20 23:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Tr:dl? That post was kind of long winded and boring, so I didn't really read it.




Something about how you can't figure out how to make a drake's EHP like the rest of the battlecruisers. Seems pretty strait forward to me.

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Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#49 - 2012-01-20 23:50:35 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I guess my post was a little to smart for you.
Allow me to dumb it up a bit...

Abaddon gang with logi beats drake gang with logi every time... even if the Abaddons cross the gate after them. This is do to the great range of the Amarr guns and stupid range of the guardian RR. Did that work for you? Because my post seems to have gone over your head.


So what your saying is Tier 2 Battlecruisers with Logi Support should be able to take out Tier 3 Battleships with Logi Support?

My point was, RR BS gangs normally DON'T have logisitics ships, otherwise your wasting utility slots with pointless remote repairs when you could use, you know another gun or a neut, or something more useful.

*IF* you can bait a RR BS (Remote-Repair Battleship since you obviously don't know what that means) gang through a gate, and have them scattered 20km away from each other, they don't have reps anymore, and if their opponents are flying the standard PODLA nano drakes (scram + webs), they arn't getting back to the gates either.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-01-20 23:52:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Xolve wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I guess my post was a little to smart for you.
Allow me to dumb it up a bit...

Abaddon gang with logi beats drake gang with logi every time... even if the Abaddons cross the gate after them. This is do to the great range of the Amarr guns and stupid range of the guardian RR. Did that work for you? Because my post seems to have gone over your head.


So what your saying is Tier 2 Battlecruisers with Logi Support should be able to take out Tier 3 Battleships with Logi Support?

My point was, RR BS gangs normally DON'T have logisitics ships, otherwise your wasting utility slots with pointless remote repairs when you could use, you know another gun or a neut, or something more useful.

*IF* you can bait a RR BS (Remote-Repair Battleship since you obviously don't know what that means) gang through a gate, and have them scattered 20km away from each other, they don't have reps anymore, and if their opponents are flying the standard PODLA nano drakes (scram + webs), they arn't getting back to the gates either.



That's just fine and dandy at all... but you obviously have not been PVP much in low/null sec. If you had been we would not be having this conversation.

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Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-01-21 00:21:11 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
That's just fine and dandy at all... but you obviously have not been PVP much in low/null sec. If you had been we would not be having this conversation.


Please tell me the original EP sold his character, and you are the semi-******** new owner.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-01-21 00:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Xolve wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
That's just fine and dandy at all... but you obviously have not been PVP much in low/null sec. If you had been we would not be having this conversation.


Please tell me the original EP sold his character, and you are the semi-******** new owner.




Nope, It's me. It's just that you just have to be a major **** on these forums in order to be heard LOL and I didn't recognize your new character picture Lol My bad!




Eternum bows to Xolve and asks his forgiveness.




You are right about the battleship thing but I have been seeing that less and less. Everyone is moving over to Alpha fleets and Hellcats. Logistics and carriers are replacing normal RR as well. I can't remember the last time I encountered a normal RR gang without any logistics come to think of it. So taking that into account, I don't see why a drake needs to be touched outside of tweaking it's ehp slightly. 80K EHP is basically what you can do with HAM's and a MWD, anything less then that and the ship ceases to be dangerous.


There that is my non-troll reply!

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Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2012-01-21 01:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
The forum ate my response, and I don't care enough to re-type it.
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